Is m43 Dead?

No matter how long I read this site, I never fail to be amazed how so many readers extrapolate the forums here into the real world, like we are just a subset of the "average shooter". You think mFT is dead cause the real battle (now that Panasonic has joined in, with it's HUGE market share) is FF? I suppose FF is the "main battle ground" for maybe 10% of the shooting populations (some pros, some serious amateurs, some people with lots of money), but the other 90% has no interest in FF, or sensor debates in general, they want a camera they can afford that does what they need. Now I figure that 10% is massively over-represented on these boards, so it seems like the 10% is the 90%. And I assume those that actually can monetize the quality difference between FF and other formats have already chosen FF equipment, I mean it has been around over a decade.

The same argument seems to regularly pop up on 4k and 8k video. I am not a video guy, but, outside of a small percentage of people making money shooting video, I think more people on these boards care about it more than the general public. I stopped caring at 1080 rez. The idea of the average photographer wanting/needing/paying for a camera that records at a rate of 25-50 MB per SECOND so they can take video of Spot and the kids school play is crazy to me. Storing those files, reviewing them, having hard drive space and a CPU that can process them, walking around with 1TB of SD cards, that is something for the top users only, not the vast masses (IMHO). And for most products, the money is in making the vast masses at least as happy as the higher end users. (yes there are exceptions.)

I am not against any of these products, and I hope they all succeed and I will actually use many of them (or have), options are good for all of us, I just think there are a lot of people out there with a different reference point for photography than many here.

abe4652 said:

Martin.au said:

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

I take it you don't travel much?

Click to expand...

I travel some.

I have also owned (and mostly still own) the GF1, GH1, GH2, three EM5's, an EM1, and the EM1 Mark 2, along with a billion lenses, including the original 14-45 (which was not bad at all), the 75mm, 45mm, 20mm Mark 1, every flavor of 40-150 and similar, the lousy 45-200, Pana 100-400, 40-150 2.8, and 12-100.

So one can say I'm somewhat invested in the system (though I recently bought a Sony A7riii and a few lenses for maximum IQ).

I know very well how much more mobile a m43 situation is than a FF oine. I also know, however, that the overall load is not that different with a A7riii and 70-300 than an EM1 and a 40-150 or 100-400.

Click to expand...

If you mean to ask if your gear will lose value in the longer term, I would think so because it’s true for most electronics except collectibles.

Obviously you will be able to continue to use your m43 gear after either Panasonic or Olympus exits, if ever.

LightBug said:

abe4652 said:

Martin.au said:

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

I take it you don't travel much?

Click to expand...

I travel some.

I have also owned (and mostly still own) the GF1, GH1, GH2, three EM5's, an EM1, and the EM1 Mark 2, along with a billion lenses, including the original 14-45 (which was not bad at all), the 75mm, 45mm, 20mm Mark 1, every flavor of 40-150 and similar, the lousy 45-200, Pana 100-400, 40-150 2.8, and 12-100.

So one can say I'm somewhat invested in the system (though I recently bought a Sony A7riii and a few lenses for maximum IQ).

I know very well how much more mobile a m43 situation is than a FF oine. I also know, however, that the overall load is not that different with a A7riii and 70-300 than an EM1 and a 40-150 or 100-400.

Click to expand...

If you mean to ask if your gear will lose value in the longer term, I would think so because it’s true for most electronics except collectibles.

Obviously you will be able to continue to use your m43 gear after either Panasonic or Olympus exits, if ever.

Click to expand...

I guess the point is that if Olympus and Panasonic don't release new m43 cameras, one is sort of stuck in this level of camera capability.

Very well stated.

abe4652 said:

LightBug said:

abe4652 said:

Martin.au said:

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

I take it you don't travel much?

Click to expand...

I travel some.

I have also owned (and mostly still own) the GF1, GH1, GH2, three EM5's, an EM1, and the EM1 Mark 2, along with a billion lenses, including the original 14-45 (which was not bad at all), the 75mm, 45mm, 20mm Mark 1, every flavor of 40-150 and similar, the lousy 45-200, Pana 100-400, 40-150 2.8, and 12-100.

So one can say I'm somewhat invested in the system (though I recently bought a Sony A7riii and a few lenses for maximum IQ).

I know very well how much more mobile a m43 situation is than a FF oine. I also know, however, that the overall load is not that different with a A7riii and 70-300 than an EM1 and a 40-150 or 100-400.

Click to expand...

If you mean to ask if your gear will lose value in the longer term, I would think so because it’s true for most electronics except collectibles.

Obviously you will be able to continue to use your m43 gear after either Panasonic or Olympus exits, if ever.

Click to expand...

I guess the point is that if Olympus and Panasonic don't release new m43 cameras, one is sort of stuck in this level of camera capability.

Click to expand...

M43 lenses are focus by wire right? Those type I would get rid of if I didn’t want to stay with existing m43 bodies, since those lenses could not work on any non m43 bodies. Yes if Panasonic exits, Olympus may not be far behind. But honestly I don’t think they will exit m43, it’ll be huge PR disaster for them. They may just have longer product cycles to stay afloat.

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Click to expand...

Olympus is spiralling out of control with huge losses for Imaging Division

abe4652 said:

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Click to expand...

is Panasonic leaving m4/3 for ff?

abe4652 said:

Where does all this leave m43?

Click to expand...

will Olympus continue to make non-profitable cameras?

what if they bail out completely?

abe4652 said:

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

it's fighting against smartphones, and sony is hitting it hard with 20mp stacked sensor compacts.

Micro 43 is good enough for this guy to produce multiple National Geographic assignments with:


M43 is also good enough for all these guys and gals to produce their brilliant work with:


So I daresay that M43 is good enough for the vast majority of photographers...if only they could tear themselves away from pixel peeping at test charts.

And as good as camera phones are getting, they do not have the versatility, flexibility, expandability, features or ergonomics of a system camera.

Micro 43 provides a unique balance of lightweight portability, features (such as IBIS), comprehensive lens eco-system, IQ and affordability.

LightBug said:

abe4652 said:

LightBug said:

abe4652 said:

Martin.au said:

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

I take it you don't travel much?

Click to expand...

I travel some.

I have also owned (and mostly still own) the GF1, GH1, GH2, three EM5's, an EM1, and the EM1 Mark 2, along with a billion lenses, including the original 14-45 (which was not bad at all), the 75mm, 45mm, 20mm Mark 1, every flavor of 40-150 and similar, the lousy 45-200, Pana 100-400, 40-150 2.8, and 12-100.

So one can say I'm somewhat invested in the system (though I recently bought a Sony A7riii and a few lenses for maximum IQ).

I know very well how much more mobile a m43 situation is than a FF oine. I also know, however, that the overall load is not that different with a A7riii and 70-300 than an EM1 and a 40-150 or 100-400.

Click to expand...

If you mean to ask if your gear will lose value in the longer term, I would think so because it’s true for most electronics except collectibles.

Obviously you will be able to continue to use your m43 gear after either Panasonic or Olympus exits, if ever.

Click to expand...

I guess the point is that if Olympus and Panasonic don't release new m43 cameras, one is sort of stuck in this level of camera capability.

Click to expand...

M43 lenses are focus by wire right? Those type I would get rid of if I didn’t want to stay with existing m43 bodies, since those lenses could not work on any non m43 bodies. Yes if Panasonic exits, Olympus may not be far behind. But honestly I don’t think they will exit m43, it’ll be huge PR disaster for them. They may just have longer product cycles to stay afloat.

Click to expand...

None of my m43 lenses are focus by wire. The only wire that I'm aware of that would do that was the Panasonic 45-175, from a number of years ago, and that was zoom by wire.

abe4652 said:

LightBug said:

abe4652 said:

Martin.au said:

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

I take it you don't travel much?

Click to expand...

I travel some.

I have also owned (and mostly still own) the GF1, GH1, GH2, three EM5's, an EM1, and the EM1 Mark 2, along with a billion lenses, including the original 14-45 (which was not bad at all), the 75mm, 45mm, 20mm Mark 1, every flavor of 40-150 and similar, the lousy 45-200, Pana 100-400, 40-150 2.8, and 12-100.

So one can say I'm somewhat invested in the system (though I recently bought a Sony A7riii and a few lenses for maximum IQ).

I know very well how much more mobile a m43 situation is than a FF oine. I also know, however, that the overall load is not that different with a A7riii and 70-300 than an EM1 and a 40-150 or 100-400.

Click to expand...

If you mean to ask if your gear will lose value in the longer term, I would think so because it’s true for most electronics except collectibles.

Obviously you will be able to continue to use your m43 gear after either Panasonic or Olympus exits, if ever.

Click to expand...

I guess the point is that if Olympus and Panasonic don't release new m43 cameras, one is sort of stuck in this level of camera capability.

Click to expand...

Permit me to say, except for the hybid AF system that Panasonic, or non EM1 of Olympus needed, and might be a faster refresh rate of their evf to bring a similar to ovf experience, the current feature set of M43 is still on the fore front of mirrorless. It might still need 1 or 2 newer generation of other brand to catch up. A few years might be?

IMHO M43 has only a concern on the ability of further resolution and noise improvement comparing to larger size sensors. If tomorrow M43 was abandoned, the question is how long that the general mass will start to feel 20Mp be too small. Otherwise what capacity of M43 is outdated and out rated by other mirrorless (save for the sensor size related).

In last 10+ years, the analog design has indeed frozon the capablelity of dslr in the film era (although they are still very good, e.g. CAF is still a leader of the department).

Until today I am still proud on enjoying the digital shooting experience offered by M43 which serves me well. I don't need a GH9 nor G9. Even a G85 be over my aim on using M43. When M43 will cease to develop someday it will not affect my gear working for me. I might have no hybrid AF (I strongly believe soon all Panasonic will use OSPDAF on the day it can solve the low light AF problem like Canon R might), but to the end I don't need fast CAF. I might never have 8K or global shutter, but it's it. I won't mind keep on using M43 as long as I can.

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

I highly doubt MFT will waste their time competing with FF cameras. They make the best MFT cameras that other companies are trying to match in terms of 4K video, stabilization, AF, and many other features like pre-burst, etc... And some camera makers don't even have a time lapse function in their new cameras.

Thus, you can bet MFT makers will be the first to use any new ground breaking technology. Global shutter? Curved sensor? who knows. Once they perfect it, other companies will try to catch up.

Astrotripper said:

This system has been proclaimed dead multiple times by internet experts, but somehow outlived a few other systems, both smaller and larger.

Click to expand...

The "somehow" is that Olympus is (thankfully) too stubborn to quick making cameras, in spite of the fact that their camera-imaging division has been losing money for years.

DPreview, might be true. Explore the world, you folks will be surprised.......the majority of folks travelling will not even know what you are talking about.

M4:3 is dead with so many full-frame systems coming - full frame is the future.

APS-C is dead because full frame is the new thing and anyone wanting smaller can just get M4:3.

P&S is dead because 1" sensors are almost the same size but sensors are better - and phones can match or beat P&S cameras.

1" sensors are dead because M4:3 is almost the same size but sensors are better.

M4:3 is dead because APS-C is almost the same size but sensors are better.

APS-C is dead because full-frame is almost the same size but sensors are better.

Canon and Nikon DSLRs are dead because mirrorless is the future.

Canon and Nikon mirrorless full-frame are dead because they can't match Sony.

Sony full-frame are dead because Canon and Nikon will crush them now.

Fuji is dead because all they have is APS-C.

Pentax is dead because barely anyone knows they exist.

Sony E-mount APS-C is dead because they're only supporting full frame now.

Canon EOS-M is dead because it's too small and they now have 4 mounts to support.

Panasonic M4:3 is dead because Olympus is better.

Olympus M4:3 is dead because Panasonic is better.

Leica is dead because people will finally figure out they're too expensive for what you get out of them.

Medium format is dead because full-frame is nearly as good, smaller, and cheaper.

Small bodies are dead because everyone's going to larger bodies.

Large bodies are dead because mirrorless can be made smaller.

I'm sure I missed some in there somewhere, and I'm ignoring the more blunt 'Sony sux, Canon sux, Nikon sux' posts...there's just so many posts declaring the death or end of something, most of which hasn't happened yet, may happen slowly, or may never happen at all. Missed in all of this is that the market doesn't support a #1 and all others must throw in the towel. There can be many profitable companies at once, multiple successful formats, high-volume sellers or high-profit sellers with lower volume, niche players, and so on. Let the market dictate who or what survives and just enjoy whatever it is you shoot with, unless and until it's no longer available, then choose among the remaining players for the best fit.

doady said:

Was the m4/3 system ever alve? The tiny sensor meant that the system was dead from the very beginning, at least for serious photography.

Click to expand...

I guess APS-C and Full Frame must be dead too, at least for serious photographer, since they aren't much bigger than M4/3.

Serious photographers use 4x5 view cameras.

Look to the right - the of the top 10 most popular cameras, #3 and #9 are Micro 4/3.

abe4652 said:

Now that Panasonic is joining the main battle, along with Canon, Nikon, for FF mirrorless, will Olympus be the only one left behind?

Or will it launch also, and with an incompatible FF to Panasonic?

Where does all this leave m43?

Will the main battles now be fought in FF mirrorless land, and m43 become an afterthought?

Click to expand...

No m4/3 is not dead but smartphones are going to hurt it more and more. They are hurting the whole industry but their impact will affect the smaller formats to a greater degree sooner.

The real question is when will camera mfgs decide that it is no longer cost effective to produce a format? That, I can't answer.

itguy08 said:

Look to the right - the of the top 10 most popular cameras, #3 and #9 are Micro 4/3.

Click to expand...

look at Olympus, m4/3 is not profitable for them.

No, it’s not dead, but it is hard to imagine how m43 can compete going forward with similar sized bodies with larger and better sensors that provide phase detection auto focus, greater dynamic range, and much less noise at high ISOs all for comparable prices.

Unless m43 ups its game with much improved sensor technology and phase detection AF that can track moving subjects then I don’t see m43 having much of a future. Despite what m43 users seem to think, just banging on and on about IBIS won’t save m43. Only better tech that can compete on performance and price with larger formats will save m43.

itguy08 said:

Look to the right - the of the top 10 most popular cameras, #3 and #9 are Micro 4/3.

Click to expand...

That list is "Interchangeable Lens Cameras receiving the most views in reviews and previews in the last 5 days."

DPR Views don't pay camera company bills.

Fuji decided to make a Medium format. Did their APS-C system die?