J5 + 18.5 1.8 vs iPhone 7 Portrait mode

VadymA said:

Paul Pasco said:

I too have an older iMac, maybe same as yours and I have my screen brightness (there’s a control right on the keyboard) set a little less than half way and it looks “right” to my eyes. I do all of my pp on this Mac and I generally most photos I look at on this site look exposed correctly and few if any people have ever commented that my posted photos were too light or dark, so I assume I am in the ballpark at least. Of your 3 samples The iPhone photos have that Instagram filter look to them and are a little too bright. The J5 photo definitely looks a little underexposed on both my Mac and my phone, but nothing that couldn’t be fixed easily. Would you allow us to pp your J5 shot to show you what we think it should look like?

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Thank you Paul. I think I have a pretty good idea as to what adjustments I would need to make to that image to satisfy everybody. It is just not the reason I wanted to make this post. I feel too bad that I've uploaded the underexposed image as it diverted all attention away from the purpose of my post, which was to demonstrate the difference of portrait (artificial) mode vs natural lens "bokeh". The reason I decided to do this comparison using J5 was because the power of iPhone artificial blur reminded me of the blur I often get from J5 under the right conditions (like f-stop, distance to subject and the background). So I decided to compare them side by side. Things like details, WB, or exposure were not part of my interest, otherwise I would make the images as similar as possible. I just wanted to see the bokeh, which is ridiculously full of errors on iPhone image when viewed on a larger screen. It is just hideous in parts where sharp details meet the out-of-focus area. Unfortunately I don't think anybody even noticed or looked at that, so my message was completely lost in translation. I should have just posted the crops instead of full images to demonstrate the massacre done to the image by computational photography. Oh well, lesson's learned, will try to be more careful and coherent next time.

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I just mentioned adjustment as a means of seeing where your screen brightness was relative to others but you are absolutely right that it is beside the point of your post. To the point, yes the iPhone images leave a lot to be desired for various reasons, especially when the special software is used, but really, on a phone you just can’t see it and that is where most iPhone photos are observed. Even on an iPad the typical observer really isn’t looking at things the way us photo nerds do.

Thanks, its an interesting comparison. I don't think you will get much disagreement about the tecnically better quality of the J5 image compared to the iphone (at pixel level).

However the iphone images look better on teh screen as the exposure is right. The J5 image is underexposed. It could be fixed and probably should be but to me the lesson is...

Compose, focus and expose correctly and almost any camera will take a pleasing photograph.

Great thread!

In my view, there is a strong sex difference with regards to the Iphone/Compact debate. Women primarily use cameras to take pictures of themselves, and they do this frequently. So they not only want a camera that they can easily whip out at a second's notice 50 times a day, but they also actually prefer the softer lens and smaller sensor of the phone because it is more forgiving of skin blemishes and such. Men tend to have more purpose when taking a photo, and their calculus is more about the trade off between image quality and convenience, which is why the RX100 series has been so successful.

The SOOC shot for the iphone is actually quite pleasing, more so then the adjusted one for me. The J5 shot is under exposed, and should have used base ISO. All in all, the iphone is nice if you don't zoom in and enlarge it to it's full size, but once you do, it's pretty crappy. To most people, if you're just sharing photos via internet or whatsapp, twitter that sort of things, it's perfectly fine, but if you want a proper looking picture, the iphone is still no match to the J5 and rightly so.

The question now becomes, how far can a phone camera go? 1" sensor is probably the biggest sensor you can have in a phone, anything else It's pretty unrealistic. I use my HTC 10 cameras a lot and it's really good and really convenient. Often times, when I can't carry a proper camera, but my phone is always with me.

This is a photo I took with my HTC10 at a dog's birthday party. It looks perfectly ok on the phone but once it's enlarged, it's like an oil painting.

Viewing these on my phone and as a normal pic in FB, the iPhone looks better, enlarging them in my monitor the J5 is way better.

So the two main disadvantages are:

#1- phone manufacturers, especially Apple, optimize their jpg processing to make their images look great on their devices, and safari a closed system if you will.

#2- Most people will never blow up the pic in their monitor or study the details, they'll give a quick glance, a thumbs up and move along.

Nikon should have done this comparison prior to launching the N1 system to realize that the N1 would not offer any significant optical advantage to the casual user, and a disavantdge to serious users considering a mirrorless syetm which had larger sensors and fast glass like Sony, Fuji, Oly and Panasonic. The fact that they priced the N1 higher than these systems and iPhones, was just the shining star on top of the titanic.

Ok, just to address the underexposure concern and out of curiosity, I have boosted the exposure by almost a stop, lifted shadows a bit. I cannot possibly go any higher. My original post was specifically about the portrait mode on the iPhone, which creates a lot of mess on the fringe of sharp and blur areas (look at the top of girl’s hair). It becomes really noticeable when looking on a screen bigger than a phone, but apparently most people read this forum on their phones and were not able to spot the difference. Instead, everyone only noticed difference in exposure, which is pretty much all one can notice on a phone screen.

So, just to finish this “analysis”, below is the adjusted J5 image (personally I still prefer the underexposed version ;-) ) followed by the iPhone image. Let’s forget about portrait mode, nobody will be able to notice the difference anyway. Just by looking at normal size, does iPhone image still appeal more to you?

VadymA said:

does iPhone image still appeal more to you?

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The J5 image is the better image to the trained eye, the iPhone image looks like it's been treated with 3 or 4 instagram filters, which unfortunately is what the average consumer seems to like better, ..... That is why there is a McDonalds on every street corner and not steakhouses.

JanMatthys said:

The J5 image is the better image to the trained eye, the iPhone image looks like it's been treated with 3 or 4 instagram filters, which unfortunately is what the average consumer seems to like better, ..... That is why there is a McDonalds on every street corner and not steakhouses.

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So true. Oh well, just because most of the world prefers fast food, doesn’t mean there should be no place for gourmet meal, even if it’s only understood by a few.

VadymA said:

Ok, just to address the underexposure concern and out of curiosity, I have boosted the exposure by almost a stop, lifted shadows a bit. I cannot possibly go any higher. My original post was specifically about the portrait mode on the iPhone, which creates a lot of mess on the fringe of sharp and blur areas (look at the top of girl’s hair). It becomes really noticeable when looking on a screen bigger than a phone, but apparently most people read this forum on their phones and were not able to spot the difference. Instead, everyone only noticed difference in exposure, which is pretty much all one can notice on a phone screen.

So, just to finish this “analysis”, below is the adjusted J5 image (personally I still prefer the underexposed version ;-) ) followed by the iPhone image. Let’s forget about portrait mode, nobody will be able to notice the difference anyway. Just by looking at normal size, does iPhone image still appeal more to you?

Click to expand...

Ok, now the exposure of the J5 shot looks perfect on my monitor, which I know is beside the point of your original post! But I think even more so it reinforces your original intent. Yes for sure, as I always agreed, the iPhone image is far inferior in quality.

--
Regards, Paul
Lili's Dad

I know I'm coming late to this discussion, and perhaps everyone's points of view are already expressed, but I just wanted to say that I found this topic interesting.

It's funny how perceptions change because of what's "popular" for the time. The original J5 shot is very "Ektachrome-ish" in comparison to warmer "Kodachrome" colours. Other than colour corrective filters, those of us who shot film often learned to live with those results, and shot at certain times of the day (e.g. NOT in the shade during winter) to avoid problems.

So how does this relate? iPhone users have come to accept mediocre results with heavy JPG artifacts as "normal", and since they are rarely turned into enlargements or further post-processed (think 4x6 prints from your roll of film), then users are often ignorant to how poor the shots really are!

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now. Even though there are (sometimes serious) limits to the tiny CX format, in most cases I start off with a better image than what I can produce with my Samsung S7. There's really nothing else to blame except for myself when there is a problem. Convenience? Sure, but even the hassles with Wi-Fi and my V3 are still worlds better than scanned film, which was worlds better than flatbed...

Photography has come to a crossroads where formats and functions are defining a new normal -- it happened when 35mm replaced roll film and when dSLRs replaced film. Smartphones have already replaced compact cameras, yet small-sensor dedicated cameras are beginning to be swallowed up by larger-format (FX) sensor bodies (yet smaller in size, a la mirrorless).

Furthermore, (I just realized I stepped back on the soapbox -sorry!) I hate shooting without a viewfinder! That one function alone keeps me using a "real" camera as my device of choice, and which limits iPhones from being used in many situations, especially portraiture or extreme action. Cameras are still awkward for selfies (and I'm still very clumsy trying to frame a shot and reaching the button with my cellphone), but I hate taking selfies anyway!! Nope -- just give me a camera -- I can take any picture I want with a camera, thank-you very much...

...

(... I'm out of breath... Hold on a moment....)

Okay, thanks. I think I feel better now... Yup, I'm pretty well done my rant...

For those of us who want instantaneous gratification or casual shots of our cats, go ahead and use a cellphone. For those of us who want to be more serious, I'm happy to be an owner of real cameras -- tools that do one main function well. I often use the analogy of a hammer -- it's great for pulling nails, knocking a hole in something or bending wire, but it works exceedingly well at driving nails into wood. Cameras work best for producing photos -- simple as that. Therefore, it's no surprise that even though the original J5 photo may not look the best right away, that same image, processed differently, would blow the others away! The photographer still does most of the work.

Thanks, all, for sharing your thoughts -- they're all valid, and I'm especially impressed how civil this exchange was -- in some forums, this would have caused an all-out war!!