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Demonstration of mirrorless over OVF...

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kiwi2

kiwi2

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Following a discussion here that I didn't want to derail the thread too much, I decided to make a demonstration of one of the advantages of using mirrorless.

Doing landscapes I sometimes employ a 10 stop ND filter in order to create a long exposure to smooth out the movement of water and such. What I have found using a mirrorless camera is that I can still easy and accurately manual focus the lens with the 10 stop filter in place. This make things a lot easier as I can recompose the scene and move the camera around a bit and then easily refocus without having to remove the filter first. Even while shooting in early morning light before sunrise.

So here's a demonstration showing this for any doubting Thomases.

ND filter...

d1c5f09946c4424fb847f1812690f43c.jpg

The 12mm manual lens at f/22...

The lens is actually on f/22. That's a small 0.5mm aperture!
The lens is actually on f/22. That's a small 0.5mm aperture!

The camera can still show the scene easily...

12ea1c0f0bca41d2807cd1d2dc59554f.jpg

And I can still punch up magnified view and easily adjust the focus with a quick smooth response...

6c0bb6aeab234c77a887d7e95d3a1937.jpg

Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.

--
flic.kr

1 year with Fuji

Explore this photo album by Pete Oliver on Flickr!
flic.kr flic.kr
 
in b4: But that's using the LCD and DSLR's have an LCD!!! Followed shortly thereafter by "EVFs suck in sunlight!!!"

With my old E-M5, I could actually shoot IR images, through a 720 filter, handheld through the EVF.

Not very useful, but entertaining.

9f4ccffbe23e4ca2bab81c421e8af48e.jpg

The main practical benefit to me is the ability to get the shot right first time, regardless of lighting conditions.
 
Last edited:
FrancoD said:
kiwi2 said:
The 12mm manual lens at f/22...

The camera can still show the scene easily...

12ea1c0f0bca41d2807cd1d2dc59554f.jpg

Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.
Click to expand...
This is a DSLR with a ND 10 :

b3f90a7b8da7410aa5fbf6ffef0dd2ba.jpg

I forgot the point of the post now...
Click to expand...
Yes in live view mode which is using it like a mirrorless anyhow. You are also forced to only use the rear LCD screen. With a mirrorless camera I also have the option of using the EVF which makes seeing things easier in direct sunlight etc.

I found myself using live view on my last DSLR more and more. For focusing on stars in astro shots. For making sure focus was bang on because I didn't trust AF on my Canon Rebels that didn't offer any lens AF calibration means.

So the step to mirrorless was an easy transition for me.

--
flic.kr

1 year with Fuji

Explore this photo album by Pete Oliver on Flickr!
flic.kr flic.kr
 
kiwi2 said:
FrancoD said:
kiwi2 said:
The 12mm manual lens at f/22...

The camera can still show the scene easily...

12ea1c0f0bca41d2807cd1d2dc59554f.jpg

Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.
Click to expand...
This is a DSLR with a ND 10 :

b3f90a7b8da7410aa5fbf6ffef0dd2ba.jpg

I forgot the point of the post now...
Click to expand...
Yes in live view mode which is using it like a mirrorless anyhow. You are also forced to only use the rear LCD screen. With a mirrorless camera I also have the option of using the EVF which makes seeing things easier in direct sunlight etc.
Click to expand...
With my SLR and Hoodman Custom Finder kit, I can convert the LCD into a large, bright, eye-level EVF. I do that for shooting video and remove it for stills because an OVF is still way better for almost everything.
What can you do to a mirrorless camera to give it a TTL OVF? Nothing.

--
Lee Jay
 
kiwi2 said:
Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.
Click to expand...
Well, you could focus and then put the filter on. Or use live view. But that would be way too hard. And those dang dSLRs are just too heavy, how could anyone carry one :)

The more convoluted the situation you set up to show mirrorless's supposed superiority, the more you convince us otherwise.
 
I think you should ask mods to rename the thread to “When you need to use NDs and prefer using a VF but also cannot or will not use a LCD shade”.

If they won’t oblige just make a new thread, this subject needs to be discussed and you seem to be qualified to do so.
 
Lee Jay said:
kiwi2 said:
FrancoD said:
kiwi2 said:
The 12mm manual lens at f/22...

The camera can still show the scene easily...

12ea1c0f0bca41d2807cd1d2dc59554f.jpg

Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.
Click to expand...
This is a DSLR with a ND 10 :

b3f90a7b8da7410aa5fbf6ffef0dd2ba.jpg

I forgot the point of the post now...
Click to expand...
Yes in live view mode which is using it like a mirrorless anyhow. You are also forced to only use the rear LCD screen. With a mirrorless camera I also have the option of using the EVF which makes seeing things easier in direct sunlight etc.
Click to expand...
With my SLR and Hoodman Custom Finder kit, I can convert the LCD into a large, bright, eye-level EVF. I do that for shooting video and remove it for stills because an OVF is still way better for almost everything.

What can you do to a mirrorless camera to give it a TTL OVF? Nothing.
Click to expand...
It's just a matter of time before EVFs will progress to be as good or better than OVFs just as it was a matter of time for PDAFs to be developed without mirrors when there was a time people thought mirrors were needed to achieve PDAF.
 
mamallama said:
Lee Jay said:
kiwi2 said:
FrancoD said:
kiwi2 said:
The 12mm manual lens at f/22...

The camera can still show the scene easily...

12ea1c0f0bca41d2807cd1d2dc59554f.jpg

Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.
Click to expand...
This is a DSLR with a ND 10 :

b3f90a7b8da7410aa5fbf6ffef0dd2ba.jpg

I forgot the point of the post now...
Click to expand...
Yes in live view mode which is using it like a mirrorless anyhow. You are also forced to only use the rear LCD screen. With a mirrorless camera I also have the option of using the EVF which makes seeing things easier in direct sunlight etc.
Click to expand...
With my SLR and Hoodman Custom Finder kit, I can convert the LCD into a large, bright, eye-level EVF. I do that for shooting video and remove it for stills because an OVF is still way better for almost everything.

What can you do to a mirrorless camera to give it a TTL OVF? Nothing.
Click to expand...
It's just a matter of time before EVFs will progress to be as good or better than OVFs just as it was a matter of time for PDAFs to be developed without mirrors when there was a time people thought mirrors were needed to achieve PDAF.
Click to expand...
That happened 5 years ago :-)

Don

--
Olympus EM5, EM5mk2 my toys.
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9, Olympus xz1
 
tko said:
tko said:
Its real world shooting experiences like this using a modern mirrorless camera that makes going back to using a DSLR and OVF seem like a step backwards.
Click to expand...
Well, you could focus and then put the filter on. Or use live view. But that would be way too hard. And those dang dSLRs are just too heavy, how could anyone carry one :)

The more convoluted the situation you set up to show mirrorless's supposed superiority, the more you convince us otherwise.
Click to expand...
I find using a 10 ND far easier with mirrorless. Like I said, I may choose to move the camera to change composition slightly and there's no need to remove the filter to refocus again. It's like you haven't got a filter on at all.

Here is the usual procedure with a DSLR without using live view...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pUBtZr5MYk

I also don't need to calculate or guess exposure like the guy in the clip does. I can set the exposure and see the effect before taking the first photo.

So it begs the question. If you find yourself using live view on your DSLR more and more, then why not just get a mirrorless camera that has been optimized for the usage anyhow.
 
Max Iso said:
I think you should ask mods to rename the thread to “When you need to use NDs and prefer using a VF but also cannot or will not use a LCD shade”.

If they won’t oblige just make a new thread, this subject needs to be discussed and you seem to be qualified to do so.
Click to expand...
Why would I want to use a DSLR in live view mode and put something like this on it when a mirrorless camera is already optimized for that kind of usage.
 
kiwi2 said:
Max Iso said:
I think you should ask mods to rename the thread to “When you need to use NDs and prefer using a VF but also cannot or will not use a LCD shade”.

If they won’t oblige just make a new thread, this subject needs to be discussed and you seem to be qualified to do so.
Click to expand...
Why would I want to use a DSLR in live view mode and put something like this on it when a mirrorless camera is already optimized for that kind of usage.
Click to expand...
it makes the camera feel and look like a medium format camera ;-) or was that extra large format camera :-)

Don
 
mamallama said:
It's just a matter of time before EVFs will progress to be as good or better than OVFs ...
Click to expand...
Oh really. How do beat (or even match) zero lag, zero power usage, infinite DR and infinite color gamut?
 
Donald B said:
mamallama said:
It's just a matter of time before EVFs will progress to be as good or better than OVFs just as it was a matter of time for PDAFs to be developed without mirrors when there was a time people thought mirrors were needed to achieve PDAF.
Click to expand...
That happened 5 years ago :-)
Click to expand...
On what camera? The a7ii I tried had one of the worst viewfinders I've every tried.
 
kiwi2 said:
So it begs the question. If you find yourself using live view on your DSLR more and more, then why not just get a mirrorless camera that has been optimized for the usage anyhow.
Click to expand...
Huh? Your reasoning for buying a MILC is because someone uses live view? Seriously? I don't get that logic at all. That just makes no sense to me.
 
Last edited:
kiwi2 said:
So it begs the question. If you find yourself using live view on your DSLR more and more, then why not just get a mirrorless camera that has been optimized for the usage anyhow.
Click to expand...
I find myself using Live View for stills on my SLR maybe once a year. The last time was during the eclipse.
 
kiwi2 said:
Max Iso said:
I think you should ask mods to rename the thread to “When you need to use NDs and prefer using a VF but also cannot or will not use a LCD shade”.

If they won’t oblige just make a new thread, this subject needs to be discussed and you seem to be qualified to do so.
Click to expand...
Why would I want to use a DSLR in live view mode and put something like this on it when a mirrorless camera is already optimized for that kind of usage.
Click to expand...
For me, it's because I can't use the OVF for video. Believe me, I would if I could. Everytime I switch back to stills from video I take it off, which takes only a second or two. I do that because the OVF is so drastically superior.
 
Gizmo89 said:
kiwi2 said:
So it begs the question. If you find yourself using live view on your DSLR more and more, then why not just get a mirrorless camera that has been optimized for the usage anyhow.
Click to expand...
Huh? Your reasoning for buying a MILC is because someone uses live view? Seriously? I don't get that logic at all. That just makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
To repeat one of my earlier posts ...

"I found myself using live view on my last DSLR more and more. For focusing on stars in astro shots. For making sure focus was bang on because I didn't trust AF on my Canon Rebels that didn't offer any lens AF calibration means"

...So it was no big deal for me switching to mirrorless because I was already using my DSLR in live view mode quite regularly.
 
kiwi2 said:
To repeat one of my earlier posts ...

"I found myself using live view on my last DSLR more and more. For focusing on stars in astro shots. For making sure focus was bang on because I didn't trust AF on my Canon Rebels that didn't offer any lens AF calibration means"

...So it was no big deal for me switching to mirrorless because I was already using my DSLR in live view mode quite regularly.
Click to expand...
You still didn't explain why using live mode is a reason for switching to MILC. I used my dial on my DSLR to adjust my aperture today, so does that mean I should switch to MILC?
 
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