Mirrorless mania !!

ttran88 said:

I just picked up a mint SH K3ii with 1000k clicks for $500 and a mint 21mm for $250.

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Alex Sarbu said:

I just picked up a brand new D FA* 50mm f/1.4 - it has no mirror ;-)

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Roland Karlsson said:

Dale108 said:

Pentax needs to be in mirrorless market if they want to stay relevant for future. Do you really feel that DSLRs will still be popular in 10 years? While I like the K1, mostly I know shoot with m4/3 system as it is smaller and has IQ for 90% of my shooting.

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You do not know that, neither do I.

There are two scenarios.

1. Nikon and Canon eventually do skip DSLR.
2. Nikon and Canon continue to release DSLR a loooong time from now.

In both cases there might be a place for a DSLR Pentax. But only if Pentax can build a nice offering including native lenses.

On the other hand, if Pentax go mirrorless, why should anyone care about Pentax mirrorless?

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zakaria said:

Pentax used to release 3 aps/c bodies and now a one full frame..what about produce only 2 dslr aps/c bodies only for Rationalization of expenditures then save money for the mirrorless camera "one body only".

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Mark Ransom said:

zakaria said:

Pentax used to release 3 aps/c bodies and now a one full frame..what about produce only 2 dslr aps/c bodies only for Rationalization of expenditures then save money for the mirrorless camera "one body only".

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I think they were still on a 3 body mindset when they came out with the K-1, which is why we haven't yet seen a flagship APS-C. To have 2 APS-C, one FF, and one mirrorless would require development resources for 4 cameras and I don't think they can do it. I'm still waiting to see which of the 3 APS-C lines they're going to give up.

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Mark Ransom said:

zakaria said:

Pentax used to release 3 aps/c bodies and now a one full frame..what about produce only 2 dslr aps/c bodies only for Rationalization of expenditures then save money for the mirrorless camera "one body only".

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I think they were still on a 3 body mindset when they came out with the K-1, which is why we haven't yet seen a flagship APS-C. To have 2 APS-C, one FF, and one mirrorless would require development resources for 4 cameras and I don't think they can do it. I'm still waiting to see which of the 3 APS-C lines they're going to give up.

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Barry Pearson said:

If Pentax released a mirrorless camera that suited me and would take my K-mount lenses, I would buy one.

But, unlike the vast majority of people in the world wanting an FF SLR, I also had an attitude "if Pentax released an FF SLR that suited me and would take my K-mount lenses, I would buy one".

The idea of a Pentax mirrorless camera shouldn't be rejected because it will only have a small market share. Anything that Pentax releases will only have a small market share!

The new APS-C flagship that many Pentax users have been wanting will only have a small market share, but that doesn't mean Ricoh/Pentax shouldn't develop and release one. The same logic may apply to a Pentax mirrorless camera, if its market share would be comparable to that of the new flagship.

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Barry Pearson said:

There appears to be a good case for having a new APS-C flagship to replace the K-3ii. It would have features such as 2 card slots. I suspect there are several transferable technologies in the K-3ii, the K-1ii, and the KP.

I also think that, sooner or later, we won't think that "FF" excludes "mirrorless", or that "APS-C" excludes "mirrorless". Sensor size and viewing method are separate characteristics.

While I agree that they may have a "3 body development mindset", is there a reason they can't keep models in production for longer after they have been developed? Perhaps have 4 in the catalogue, including at least one old model?

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DS21 said:

Mark Ransom said:

zakaria said:

Pentax used to release 3 aps/c bodies and now a one full frame..what about produce only 2 dslr aps/c bodies only for Rationalization of expenditures then save money for the mirrorless camera "one body only".

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I think they were still on a 3 body mindset when they came out with the K-1, which is why we haven't yet seen a flagship APS-C. To have 2 APS-C, one FF, and one mirrorless would require development resources for 4 cameras and I don't think they can do it. I'm still waiting to see which of the 3 APS-C lines they're going to give up.

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Not much to wait, by the long gap since last release it is clear the K-3 line was the one to be cut.

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John_A_G said:

There are benefits with having lenses specifically designed for mirrorless. Pentax can't release enough k-mount lenses fast enough for the user base. I think a k-mount mirrorless is a poor business strategy. You want lenses specifically designed for the mirrorless body. Nikon has a very nice strategy of supplying what is, on paper, a reasonable adapter while having a roadmap for quality lenses in the new mount within 2 years. Canon also is using a mount different than their DSLR mount.

If Pentax were going to go mirrorless they would need to go the Nikon route and have an adapter approach.

Pentax is too small a player to straddle the fence. I don't think they can split their limited $$$ into both DSLR and mirrorless development like Canon/Nikon can. So, they have to pick a side.

On one hand, it might seem like they've picked the "DSLR" side of the fence. But, the lack of products coming out might also be an indicator that they are willing to switch sides and follow the herd toward embracing mirrorless.

I don't know which way they are going but I disagree with the notion they can be successful by trying to do both.

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Mark Ransom said:

DS21 said:

Mark Ransom said:

zakaria said:

Pentax used to release 3 aps/c bodies and now a one full frame..what about produce only 2 dslr aps/c bodies only for Rationalization of expenditures then save money for the mirrorless camera "one body only".

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I think they were still on a 3 body mindset when they came out with the K-1, which is why we haven't yet seen a flagship APS-C. To have 2 APS-C, one FF, and one mirrorless would require development resources for 4 cameras and I don't think they can do it. I'm still waiting to see which of the 3 APS-C lines they're going to give up.

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Not much to wait, by the long gap since last release it is clear the K-3 line was the one to be cut.

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I don't think it was cut so much as it morphed into the K-1. I'm quite sure they started a successor as soon as we made it clear there was a demand.

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zakaria said:

Ok pentax is a small player .though it has 3 mounts k Q d645.!!+Ricoh GR. Don't forget k01.

Pentax has their Q experience or they can copy Nikon methods.

A new system needs only 2to 3 lenses then they can read the market trends.

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Barry Pearson said:

DougOB said:

In a sense FT (4/3rd) and MFT took this approach with a fresh start, I am just not convinced that they got it right.

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There is a rumour that Panasonic will soon announce an FF camera.
The day before Photokina.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panaso...rst-full-frame-system-camera-on-september-25/

I'm detecting a pattern of major manufacturers, (Nikon, Canon, Sony, Panasonic), moving towards mirrorless FF.

They intend to make the technology work well, and presumably they intend to establish a significant "Mirrorless FF" climate.

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zakaria said:

I am seeing a new born for pentax future in Mirrorless .

Why?

because it can begin from scratch like the all .

3 new lenses will be enough. Forget the dslr for 2 years only !

Be brave pentax the opportunity is equal for all.

Or you will suffer as you had before when you hesitated to enter the digital era even though you were a leader. be brave enough to make a decision or you will be just a line in a history book.

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Mark Ransom said:

zakaria said:

Ok pentax is a small player .though it has 3 mounts k Q d645.!!+Ricoh GR. Don't forget k01.

Pentax has their Q experience or they can copy Nikon methods.

A new system needs only 2to 3 lenses then they can read the market trends.

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The models you mention were all developed during happier times, when the digital camera market was still growing. The Q is believed to be abandoned, the current status of the 645 is unknown. The K-01 was definitely a one-off.

Coming out with 3 lenses at once seems to be beyond their capabilities at the moment, unless they were to partner with someone again.

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Barry Pearson said:

petreluk said:

None of this has much bearing on Pentax. In effect they resigned from the fray three or so years ago to concentrate on their existing customers who are K-mount DSLR users. I doubt they would want to risk splitting or alienating their userbase so maybe any mirrorless venture would come later or solely under the Ricoh banner. Imagine the reaction if it became apparent that, say, new 85mm and 35mm f1.4 FF prime lenses were being delayed in favour of a new mirrorless line.

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A vitally important lesson from Nikon and Canon (and Q-series!) is that a mirrorless camera with a new mount must be accompanied from day 1 with an adapter to use existing lenses.

If Pentax brought out a mirrorless camera plus comprehensive adapter for K-mount lenses, there is no need for the the K-mount userbase to feel alienated. It would send the message:

"The existing K-mount userbase remains important, now and into the future, and these new cameras provide extra options for people with an investment in K-mount lenses".

For this reason, it would not even be necessary for Ricoh/Pentax to release new lenses, that only work with the new mount, on day 1. They could just extend their roadmaps, and develop and release new lenses for the new mount when there are specific reasons to do so. (There are reasons for buying mirrorless cameras other than new lenses!)

I'm an "existing customer who is a K-mount DSLR user". I've owned (and in some cases still own) 9 different Pentax K-mount digital SLRs. (And also some Pentax 35mm-film SLRs). I've owned (and in some cases still own) at least 18 different Pentax K-mount lenses. I think 23 such lenses in all, in fact.
(Plus several non-Pentax K-mount lenses).

I wouldn't feel alienated by a Pentax new mount for mirrorless lenses as long as there were a suitable adapter. I would actually be encouraged that Ricoh/Pentax were taking a broader view that might prolong their future. I would examine the specifications for such cameras, and might buy one, (to accompany my existing cameras), if I thought it would offer some useful benefits for me.

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Jhaakas said:

Barry Pearson said:

A vitally important lesson from Nikon and Canon (and Q-series!) is that a mirrorless camera with a new mount must be accompanied from day 1 with an adapter to use existing lenses.

If Pentax brought out a mirrorless camera plus comprehensive adapter for K-mount lenses, there is no need for the the K-mount userbase to feel alienated. It would send the message:

"The existing K-mount userbase remains important, now and into the future, and these new cameras provide extra options for people with an investment in K-mount lenses".

For this reason, it would not even be necessary for Ricoh/Pentax to release new lenses, that only work with the new mount, on day 1. They could just extend their roadmaps, and develop and release new lenses for the new mount when there are specific reasons to do so. (There are reasons for buying mirrorless cameras other than new lenses!)

I'm an "existing customer who is a K-mount DSLR user". I've owned (and in some cases still own) 9 different Pentax K-mount digital SLRs. (And also some Pentax 35mm-film SLRs). I've owned (and in some cases still own) at least 18 different Pentax K-mount lenses. I think 23 such lenses in all, in fact.
(Plus several non-Pentax K-mount lenses).

I wouldn't feel alienated by a Pentax new mount for mirrorless lenses as long as there were a suitable adapter. I would actually be encouraged that Ricoh/Pentax were taking a broader view that might prolong their future. I would examine the specifications for such cameras, and might buy one, (to accompany my existing cameras), if I thought it would offer some useful benefits for me.

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Very valid points, however an adapter should not be that difficult to design and manufacture.

There is always mention of how Pentax does not have funds for new mount lenses, however the glass and electronics is there already and maybe it only needs mechanical retrofitting changes most.

Also, we get so many new products like cell phones, laptops etc designed and manufactured in short periods.. and so new lenses, cameras should also be possible

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Mark Ransom said:

Jhaakas said:

Barry Pearson said:

A vitally important lesson from Nikon and Canon (and Q-series!) is that a mirrorless camera with a new mount must be accompanied from day 1 with an adapter to use existing lenses.

If Pentax brought out a mirrorless camera plus comprehensive adapter for K-mount lenses, there is no need for the the K-mount userbase to feel alienated. It would send the message:

"The existing K-mount userbase remains important, now and into the future, and these new cameras provide extra options for people with an investment in K-mount lenses".

For this reason, it would not even be necessary for Ricoh/Pentax to release new lenses, that only work with the new mount, on day 1. They could just extend their roadmaps, and develop and release new lenses for the new mount when there are specific reasons to do so. (There are reasons for buying mirrorless cameras other than new lenses!)

I'm an "existing customer who is a K-mount DSLR user". I've owned (and in some cases still own) 9 different Pentax K-mount digital SLRs. (And also some Pentax 35mm-film SLRs). I've owned (and in some cases still own) at least 18 different Pentax K-mount lenses. I think 23 such lenses in all, in fact.
(Plus several non-Pentax K-mount lenses).

I wouldn't feel alienated by a Pentax new mount for mirrorless lenses as long as there were a suitable adapter. I would actually be encouraged that Ricoh/Pentax were taking a broader view that might prolong their future. I would examine the specifications for such cameras, and might buy one, (to accompany my existing cameras), if I thought it would offer some useful benefits for me.

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Very valid points, however an adapter should not be that difficult to design and manufacture.

There is always mention of how Pentax does not have funds for new mount lenses, however the glass and electronics is there already and maybe it only needs mechanical retrofitting changes most.

Also, we get so many new products like cell phones, laptops etc designed and manufactured in short periods.. and so new lenses, cameras should also be possible

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A Pentax adapter would be hardest of all. Since Pentax was late to the game of getting in-lens focus motors, an adapter would almost certainly require a focus motor. That seems like a significant challenge.

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Jhaakas said:

Mark Ransom said:

A Pentax adapter would be hardest of all. Since Pentax was late to the game of getting in-lens focus motors, an adapter would almost certainly require a focus motor. That seems like a significant challenge.

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At some point pentax has to let the old baggage go. Those legacy lenses can still be used as manual focus lenses... and besides that, there are existing dslr bodies to server them.

This whole legacy stuff compatibility can hold Pentax down from making progress!

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