Not optimistic about adapted DSLR lenses

voronspb

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Hi everyone! I'd like to share some observations regarding the adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras.

Let's first assume that the AF experience of EF-R adapter will be 100% native, without any drawbacks to genuine RF-mount lenses. Note that this may not be true with all EF lenses, especially the older ones. Still there are still two purely physical problems with using the adapter.

First, the adapter adds a degree of bulkiness to the lens and camera. The genuine mirrorless lens is generally smaller than DSLR equivalent, and always A LOT smaller than the latter with installed adapter.

As a result, the mirrorless camera with adapted DSLR lens becomes really huge in comparison to native option, even larger than your old DSLR with the same lens. It's well illustrated in case with my old Tamron 45/1.8 and new Sony 55/1.8 (basically the same lenses in terms of quality):

Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8
Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8

Imagine that you have in your bag a number of small genuine lenses and a two times larger DSLR lens with attached adapter, and the only advantage of such a huge lens is cheap price or current availability.

That was the major reason which led me to abandoning the idea of using the adapted glass — the camera becomes huge, while with equivalent native lens it's really small.

The second problem, related to physics, is the adapter itself. The micron tolerances in its build may lead to corner degradation on hi-MP bodies. In this video it's clearly seen:
(the link leads to exact scene at 08:54).

There were two genuine Sigma MC-11 adapters (200-250$ each), one of them gives poor corners, another one is fine. Additionally there's one more contact surface which doubles the possible misalignment due to manufacturing tolerances and wear & tear.

With modern bodies and lenses any misalignment leads to tilting of focus plane with subsequent deterioration of image corners. This may be okayish with consumer optics and cheap body, but getting poor (worse than before) corners from 2K+ body with matching L-lens is ridiculous.

The bottom line: don't expect too much from the adapters. Treat them as a temporary measure for seamless transition to native lens setup. I hope this post will help someone to make the weighted decision.

--
Vladimir Gorbunov
 
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The difference is where the sensor sits within the body. It generally sits further forward within the body in mirrorless cameras. I assume that's because there is no need to have any more additional empty space than absolutely necessary.

All things being equal (build quality, etc), that also makes them slightly less chunky in other dimensions.

The important thing though is the way it feels in your hand shooting, right? Not some purely academic 4mm at the front.
 
Maybe you should wait until the camera and adapters are out and actually tested, as there will be Canon adapters designed to cope with the big whites...
All I talk about is pure physics. Even Canon or Nikon cannot deceive physics. :) They could have been close to that if they decided to keep the current mounts instead of inventing anew.

Also so far in most mount adapter tests there's been very little emphasis on IQ in corners as well as general convenience of adapter glass. Most testers are pretty much straightforward: good AF + good materials make a good adapter. Almost no one will tell you that adapters shall be tested side-by-side for choosing the sample with the least IQ drop.

Neither the reviewers say that the MILC camera with adapted DSLR glass is actually larger than DSLR, not smaller. So, again, it's better to avoid considering the adapter as an ultimate solution.
 
Maybe you should wait until the camera and adapters are out and actually tested, as there will be Canon adapters designed to cope with the big whites...
All I talk about is pure physics. Even Canon or Nikon cannot deceive physics. :)
No, but they can build well engineered products. Many use an extender with the big whites and get truly excellent results - and we tend to be fussy ;-) So adapter tubes can be well engineered - maybe less so by Sigma?
They could have been close to that if they decided to keep the current mounts instead of inventing anew.

Also so far in most mount adapter tests there's been very little emphasis on IQ in corners as well as general convenience of adapter glass.
Which MILC adapters use glass?
Most testers are pretty much straightforward: good AF + good materials make a good adapter. Almost no one will tell you that adapters shall be tested side-by-side for choosing the sample with the least IQ drop.
The test you link to does lack going into more detail. In 1 minute I would have compared all corners and centre of borders (top-centre, left-centre...) to determine if there is a tilt problem, and which axis it's in if it's as sharp in the centre, it must be a tilt problem, no? A visual inspection might then reveal the cause (muck, grit, dent, warp...) or not - in that case is it poorly built?

I suspect that Canon and Nikon will do better with their adapters.
 
The important thing though is the way it feels in your hand shooting, right? Not some purely academic 4mm at the front.
Surely the lens becomes a bit front-heavy because of this extra inch of empty space. But I'm concerned about the ones who'll have to buy a larger camera bag after purchasing the compact body and adapter. :)
 
Also so far in most mount adapter tests there's been very little emphasis on IQ in corners as well as general convenience of adapter glass.
Which MILC adapters use glass?
Sorry, a typo. Correct sentence: "Also so far in most mount adapter tests there's been very little emphasis on IQ in corners as well as general convenience of adapted glass."

Well, you're right, there's a larger chance that genuine adapters will be perfect in their shape.
 
Agree with your point with some minor clarifications.

1. Please compare a NON VC lens, the Tamron is so bulky because of VC. Pick a Nikon 50mm 1.8? They are tiny and the DSLR system becomes even smaller and more on par with mirrorless. Not sure about Canon 50mm 1.8, but I imagine it too is a very compact lens.
 
Agree with your point with some minor clarifications.

1. Please compare a NON VC lens, the Tamron is so bulky because of VC. Pick a Nikon 50mm 1.8? They are tiny and the DSLR system becomes even smaller and more on par with mirrorless. Not sure about Canon 50mm 1.8, but I imagine it too is a very compact lens.
No-no-no, the 45/1.8 is a great lens, which cannot be compared to nifty-fifties and some old 50/1.4 primes. It has a complicated design, therefore it's large and heavy. The IS is successfully implemented in pancake lenses by other brands, so IMHO it doesn't affect the size too much.

The fair competition to 45/1.8 is Sony 55/1.8 (which is 2 times more expensive), you have my word for it.

Anyway, the size problem applies to any adapted lens, especially to compact ones. To my estimate (based on actual usage of A7 with adapted lenses), Canon EOS R with adapted 40/2.8 STM will be larger than EOS 6D with same lens.
 
Hi everyone! I'd like to share some observations regarding the adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras.

Let's first assume that the AF experience of EF-R adapter will be 100% native, without any drawbacks to genuine RF-mount lenses. Note that this may not be true with all EF lenses, especially the older ones. Still there are still two purely physical problems with using the adapter.

First, the adapter adds a degree of bulkiness to the lens and camera. The genuine mirrorless lens is generally smaller than DSLR equivalent, and always A LOT smaller than the latter with installed adapter.

As a result, the mirrorless camera with adapted DSLR lens becomes really huge in comparison to native option, even larger than your old DSLR with the same lens. It's well illustrated in case with my old Tamron 45/1.8 and new Sony 55/1.8 (basically the same lenses in terms of quality):

Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8
Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8

Imagine that you have in your bag a number of small genuine lenses and a two times larger DSLR lens with attached adapter, and the only advantage of such a huge lens is cheap price or current availability.

That was the major reason which led me to abandoning the idea of using the adapted glass — the camera becomes huge, while with equivalent native lens it's really small.
...
The bottom line: don't expect too much from the adapters. Treat them as a temporary measure for seamless transition to native lens setup. I hope this post will help someone to make the weighted decision.

--
Vladimir Gorbunov
The initial excitement of using adapted lenses on a mirrorless camera will soon wear off as the negative issues that come with them will soon become more apparent. The new mirrorless user will then be drawn to the smaller ,lighter and sharper native mirrorless lenses like a moth to a flame.

The bottom line goes up as Nikon sells boat loads of new mirrorless lenses!🤑

--
Best regards,
Jon
 
Hi everyone! I'd like to share some observations regarding the adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras.

Let's first assume that the AF experience of EF-R adapter will be 100% native, without any drawbacks to genuine RF-mount lenses. Note that this may not be true with all EF lenses, especially the older ones. Still there are still two purely physical problems with using the adapter.

First, the adapter adds a degree of bulkiness to the lens and camera. The genuine mirrorless lens is generally smaller than DSLR equivalent, and always A LOT smaller than the latter with installed adapter.

As a result, the mirrorless camera with adapted DSLR lens becomes really huge in comparison to native option, even larger than your old DSLR with the same lens. It's well illustrated in case with my old Tamron 45/1.8 and new Sony 55/1.8 (basically the same lenses in terms of quality):

Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8
Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8

Imagine that you have in your bag a number of small genuine lenses and a two times larger DSLR lens with attached adapter, and the only advantage of such a huge lens is cheap price or current availability.

That was the major reason which led me to abandoning the idea of using the adapted glass — the camera becomes huge, while with equivalent native lens it's really small.

...

The bottom line: don't expect too much from the adapters. Treat them as a temporary measure for seamless transition to native lens setup. I hope this post will help someone to make the weighted decision.
The initial excitement of using adapted lenses on a mirrorless camera will soon wear off as the negative issues that come with them will soon become more apparent.
Which are these negative issues?

There don't seem to be many with the EOS-M series...
The new mirrorless user will then be drawn to the smaller ,lighter and sharper native mirrorless lenses like a moth to a flame.
If they are such, then yes, that will be great :-)
 
Best to give it a try with the Nikon adapter. Since it's the adapter will be made by the same company making the camera and lenses.

Also, even 3rd party adapters are bolstered and raved by the fans of adapters. They claim the performance outweighs the compromises.


So you'll have to test them out yourself to see if they are for you. I wouldn't base my decisions strictly based on fanboyism, or marketing hype. If I did that, I would be buying new gear all the time.

Wait... I just bought a new system.
 
Adapters are another opening for liquid and will render the cameras weather sealant useless. Double check with the warranty in regards to adapted lenses. Don’t be surprised if it isn’t covered.
 
Hi everyone! I'd like to share some observations regarding the adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras.
I'll add my observations.
Let's first assume that the AF experience of EF-R adapter will be 100% native, without any drawbacks to genuine RF-mount lenses. Note that this may not be true with all EF lenses, especially the older ones.
I have a family member that bought a new Sony mirrorless and got rid of his Canon DSLR body. He had good lenses and intended to use his Canon lenses on the new body. I asked him 6 months later and he is completely happy using adapted lenses.
First, the adapter adds a degree of bulkiness to the lens and camera.
This will be correct. Look at the film plane indicator on both bodies and see how much more body there is on the Sony behind the sensor plane. Put the same lens (and adapter as needed) on both bodies and the lens plus mirrorless body will be longer.
The genuine mirrorless lens is generally smaller than DSLR equivalent, and always A LOT smaller than the latter with installed adapter.
I have seen people post comparisons that go both ways. It depends on what type of lens you want and even the specific lenses you are comparing. In some situations I've seen comparisons posted where the Sony lens has been found to be larger than the Canon lens. At least in longer focal lengths there is no reason that the Canon lens would be bigger than the Sony lens, they should be approximately the same length. If one lens designer decides to employ a different optical strategy then their respective lens could be longer. If Sigma for instance makes lenses for both bodies, the majority of the lens would probably be the same, with a bit of what is essentially an extension tube built into the back end of the Sony lens. In short focus lenses and pancake lenses then the situation could favor the mirrorless camera.
 
Hi everyone! I'd like to share some observations regarding the adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras.

Let's first assume that the AF experience of EF-R adapter will be 100% native, without any drawbacks to genuine RF-mount lenses. Note that this may not be true with all EF lenses, especially the older ones. Still there are still two purely physical problems with using the adapter.

First, the adapter adds a degree of bulkiness to the lens and camera. The genuine mirrorless lens is generally smaller than DSLR equivalent, and always A LOT smaller than the latter with installed adapter.

As a result, the mirrorless camera with adapted DSLR lens becomes really huge in comparison to native option, even larger than your old DSLR with the same lens. It's well illustrated in case with my old Tamron 45/1.8 and new Sony 55/1.8 (basically the same lenses in terms of quality):

Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8
Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8

Imagine that you have in your bag a number of small genuine lenses and a two times larger DSLR lens with attached adapter, and the only advantage of such a huge lens is cheap price or current availability.

That was the major reason which led me to abandoning the idea of using the adapted glass — the camera becomes huge, while with equivalent native lens it's really small.

...

The bottom line: don't expect too much from the adapters. Treat them as a temporary measure for seamless transition to native lens setup. I hope this post will help someone to make the weighted decision.
The initial excitement of using adapted lenses on a mirrorless camera will soon wear off as the negative issues that come with them will soon become more apparent.
Which are these negative issues?
Besides the greater weight and length of the adapted lens assembly, any lens that does not employ a stepper or linear focus motor will be slower to focus with a Hybrid focusing system and probably less accurate as well. For those who do video the non-stepper motors will be noisy as well. The other issue is how well third party lenses AF, or even if they will AF at all with the adapters provided by the camera manufacturer? I know some third party lenses worked with the Nikon’s FT-1 adapter on their first mirrorless cameras Nikon One, but many did not AF at all. This was more of a problem with Tamron than Sigma though.
There don't seem to be many with the EOS-M series...
That could change when using FF large aperture lenses with large glass elements, or perhaps Canon’s AF system is superior to the others and there will be no problems. I imagine AF performance will vary depending on the lens used though.
The new mirrorless user will then be drawn to the smaller ,lighter and sharper native mirrorless lenses like a moth to a flame.
If they are such, then yes, that will be great :-)
I think they will be, but mainly for focal lengths below 50mm will the size and weight advantages of mirrorless be realized.

--
Best regards,
Jon
 
Let's not forget, we will have to take the adapter off to use a native lens, then take ti off of the first lens to put it on to another lens, and take the native lens off to put the second adapted lens on. The adapter will amount to 50% more device swapping for the same number of lens changes.
 
Hi everyone! I'd like to share some observations regarding the adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras.

Let's first assume that the AF experience of EF-R adapter will be 100% native, without any drawbacks to genuine RF-mount lenses. Note that this may not be true with all EF lenses, especially the older ones. Still there are still two purely physical problems with using the adapter.

First, the adapter adds a degree of bulkiness to the lens and camera. The genuine mirrorless lens is generally smaller than DSLR equivalent, and always A LOT smaller than the latter with installed adapter.

As a result, the mirrorless camera with adapted DSLR lens becomes really huge in comparison to native option, even larger than your old DSLR with the same lens. It's well illustrated in case with my old Tamron 45/1.8 and new Sony 55/1.8 (basically the same lenses in terms of quality):

Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8
Canon EOS 6D w/Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/adapted Tamron 45/1.8, Sony A7 w/Sony 55/1.8

Imagine that you have in your bag a number of small genuine lenses and a two times larger DSLR lens with attached adapter, and the only advantage of such a huge lens is cheap price or current availability.

That was the major reason which led me to abandoning the idea of using the adapted glass — the camera becomes huge, while with equivalent native lens it's really small.

The second problem, related to physics, is the adapter itself. The micron tolerances in its build may lead to corner degradation on hi-MP bodies. In this video it's clearly seen:
(the link leads to exact scene at 08:54).

There were two genuine Sigma MC-11 adapters (200-250$ each), one of them gives poor corners, another one is fine. Additionally there's one more contact surface which doubles the possible misalignment due to manufacturing tolerances and wear & tear.

With modern bodies and lenses any misalignment leads to tilting of focus plane with subsequent deterioration of image corners. This may be okayish with consumer optics and cheap body, but getting poor (worse than before) corners from 2K+ body with matching L-lens is ridiculous.

The bottom line: don't expect too much from the adapters. Treat them as a temporary measure for seamless transition to native lens setup. I hope this post will help someone to make the weighted decision.

--
Vladimir Gorbunov
I saved a lot of money adapting my EF 70-200 f/4 L IS, EF 100 f/2.8 Macro and 400 f/5.6 L lenses to my a7Rii. With the macro, an adapter really doesn't matter as I generally use it on a tripod in MF mode. The telephotos are lenses that I don't use a lot but like to have available. The EF 70-200 works really well on my a7Rii with decent AF. I don't see significant degradation using a Metabones IV adapter.

For everyday use lenses, I agree that native lenses are preferable.
 
...The bottom line: don't expect too much from the adapters. Treat them as a temporary measure for seamless transition to native lens setup. I hope this post will help someone to make the weighted decision.
Agree with you, but I think they will do the job for long lenses that get used for centre-area-centric photos like wildlife, and which are bulky anyway.

Cheers
 
Did they lose any users ? No they gained (created?) a whole new market.
Nikon and Canon will go exactly the same way.
What was the alternative ? Abandon their existing users ? Not likely.
I agree with Ed Rizk (you forget to mention that M42 at the bottom of the bag, Ed), adapters are a PITA, but WAY better than abandoning all that great glass.
 
Did they lose any users ? No they gained (created?) a whole new market.
Nikon and Canon will go exactly the same way.
What was the alternative ? Abandon their existing users ? Not likely.
I agree with Ed Rizk (you forget to mention that M42 at the bottom of the bag, Ed), adapters are a PITA, but WAY better than abandoning all that great glass.
 

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