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RX10 M4 : Forest (lowlight) photography?

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Ben of the North

Ben of the North

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Hi,

Im a Fujifilm shooter, i own an XT2 with 6 lenses. I mostly shoot nature in forests, closeup shots, macro shots and telephoto/zoom shots... often there is less light under all trees leaves and i can end up shooting in moderate lowlight.

I was wondering if the combo RX10 M4 and RX100 M6 would be perfect for me...

RX100 M6 for tough hiking in mountains (light setup) still can do closeup and zoom at 200mm

And the RX10 M4 for the rest.

Weight is a big factor since i hike a lot and weight is an issue pretty quickly when carrying multiple lenses.... i often end up bringing only 1 or 2, sometimes 3 lenses and once in the trails i regret not taking that lens so i miss a shot.

The versatily of the RX10 M4 is like perfect... i know the downside is the sensor.... 1" compared to the big APSC in my Fuji ...

Anyone in here shoot a lot of pictures in forests with those 2 cameras? How do you like it?
 
ed46eee485b84be8ba257151d66b7ee7.jpg

OOC jpeg inside a forest. I think its image quality is quite good for this condition.
 
Ben of the North said:
Hi,

Im a Fujifilm shooter, i own an XT2 with 6 lenses. I mostly shoot nature in forests, closeup shots, macro shots and telephoto/zoom shots... often there is less light under all trees leaves and i can end up shooting in moderate lowlight.

I was wondering if the combo RX10 M4 and RX100 M6 would be perfect for me...

RX100 M6 for tough hiking in mountains (light setup) still can do closeup and zoom at 200mm

And the RX10 M4 for the rest.

Weight is a big factor since i hike a lot and weight is an issue pretty quickly when carrying multiple lenses.... i often end up bringing only 1 or 2, sometimes 3 lenses and once in the trails i regret not taking that lens so i miss a shot.

The versatily of the RX10 M4 is like perfect... i know the downside is the sensor.... 1" compared to the big APSC in my Fuji ...

Anyone in here shoot a lot of pictures in forests with those 2 cameras? How do you like it?
Click to expand...
I don't think I do enough shooting in similar conditions to give really strong advice. Maybe I can give you enough information to compare to your typical shooting parameters to be of help.

What are your typical aperture and ISO settings? The RX10 IV reaches its f/4 value quickly when zooming. It hits f/4 by the time it zooms to 100mm (equiv.). So, a lot of shooting is limited to F/4 or slower. Since diffraction becomes an issue in 1" sensors by F/8, you're really talking about a useful aperture range of F/4 to F/5.6. If you're accustomed to being able to shoot faster apertures, you may feel limited if you can't safely increase exposure time.

I like to stay at ISO 800 or less. 1600 is not all that bad, but you'll see some noise. I will stretch it to 3200 if I have to, but I know I'm going to need to do some PP noise reduction and suffer the lost detail that whatever software used gives up. Shoot RAW and PP for noise in DXO Photolab's Prime noise reduction for excellent noise reduction with minimal detail loss. You no doubt know what you can do with your own workflow.

The RX10 IV will get close to 1:2 without diopter lenses. It gets the best closeups at 600mm. That is nice because it gives you a nice working distance. Creating your own shadows is not such a concern as having to shoot at just a few inches from your subject. If you want to shoot larger than half size, you will need to use a diopter lens. Even then, true 1:1 macro is probably no going to happen.

If all of this sounds like you'll be pushing the limits for your needs, consider a pairing with a RX100 V or Va. You're limited to 70mm, instead of the 200mm on the VI, but you'll gain the speed of the lens being able to shoot at F/2.8. At lesser zoom range you can get to F/1.8. The speed of this lens may work better for you, along with a RX10 IV, than the slower lens of the RX100 VI that pretty much matches the RX10 IV. I've been very reticent about trading my RX100 V for a VI for this very reason. The V gives me the extra speed when needed in low light scenarios.

I had a Fuji X-T1 and many of Fuji's really nice lenses for a good while. I know the kind of image quality you are used to getting. It's hard to beat in a APS-C sensor camera. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Sony cameras you are considering unless you work in such subdued lighting that you truly need the larger sensor. Consider renting a RX10 IV for several days and give it a workout. I think it will win you over. In any case, you're only out the rental fee. Good luck with your decisions.

--
Steve
 
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Not bad!
 
Digital Shutterbug said:
Ben of the North said:
Hi,

Im a Fujifilm shooter, i own an XT2 with 6 lenses. I mostly shoot nature in forests, closeup shots, macro shots and telephoto/zoom shots... often there is less light under all trees leaves and i can end up shooting in moderate lowlight.

I was wondering if the combo RX10 M4 and RX100 M6 would be perfect for me...

RX100 M6 for tough hiking in mountains (light setup) still can do closeup and zoom at 200mm

And the RX10 M4 for the rest.

Weight is a big factor since i hike a lot and weight is an issue pretty quickly when carrying multiple lenses.... i often end up bringing only 1 or 2, sometimes 3 lenses and once in the trails i regret not taking that lens so i miss a shot.

The versatily of the RX10 M4 is like perfect... i know the downside is the sensor.... 1" compared to the big APSC in my Fuji ...

Anyone in here shoot a lot of pictures in forests with those 2 cameras? How do you like it?
Click to expand...
I don't think I do enough shooting in similar conditions to give really strong advice. Maybe I can give you enough information to compare to your typical shooting parameters to be of help.

What are your typical aperture and ISO settings? The RX10 IV reaches its f/4 value quickly when zooming. It hits f/4 by the time it zooms to 100mm (equiv.). So, a lot of shooting is limited to F/4 or slower. Since diffraction becomes an issue in 1" sensors by F/8, you're really talking about a useful aperture range of F/4 to F/5.6. If you're accustomed to being able to shoot faster apertures, you may feel limited if you can't safely increase exposure time.

I like to stay at ISO 800 or less. 1600 is not all that bad, but you'll see some noise. I will stretch it to 3200 if I have to, but I know I'm going to need to do some PP noise reduction and suffer the lost detail that whatever software used gives up. Shoot RAW and PP for noise in DXO Photolab's Prime noise reduction for excellent noise reduction with minimal detail loss. You no doubt know what you can do with your own workflow.

The RX10 IV will get close to 1:2 without diopter lenses. It gets the best closeups at 600mm. That is nice because it gives you a nice working distance. Creating your own shadows is not such a concern as having to shoot at just a few inches from your subject. If you want to shoot larger than half size, you will need to use a diopter lens. Even then, true 1:1 macro is probably no going to happen.

If all of this sounds like you'll be pushing the limits for your needs, consider a pairing with a RX100 V or Va. You're limited to 70mm, instead of the 200mm on the VI, but you'll gain the speed of the lens being able to shoot at F/2.8. At lesser zoom range you can get to F/1.8. The speed of this lens may work better for you, along with a RX10 IV, than the slower lens of the RX100 VI that pretty much matches the RX10 IV. I've been very reticent about trading my RX100 V for a VI for this very reason. The V gives me the extra speed when needed in low light scenarios.

I had a Fuji X-T1 and many of Fuji's really nice lenses for a good while. I know the kind of image quality you are used to getting. It's hard to beat in a APS-C sensor camera. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Sony cameras you are considering unless you work in such subdued lighting that you truly need the larger sensor. Consider renting a RX10 IV for several days and give it a workout. I think it will win you over. In any case, you're only out the rental fee. Good luck with your decisions.
Click to expand...
 
sludge21017 said:
I also don't see the 100VI and 10IV combination being complementary, unless you always took the 100VI and left the 10IV home.
Click to expand...
That's exactly how it is working out for me. I always take the RX100VI with me as it just fits in my pocket. If I deliberately want to go out & do photography then I take the RX10IV. Most of the time I am shooting with the RX100VI apart from the obvious lens difference there is precious little difference in the facilities of the camera or the quality of images that they produce. The RX100VI is a marvel of miniaturisation.
 
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sludge21017 said:
I also don't see the 100VI and 10IV combination being complementary, unless you always took the 100VI and left the 10IV home.
Click to expand...
The rx100 would be my lightweight option for long and tough hikes, otherwise it would be the rx10
 
In June I went on a several day camping trip to rainforest in Java and purchased the RX10 M4 for that express purpose. I was able to hike for several miles through challenging trails with the camera attached to an lightweight optech harness so it was always available. I have learned that the sensor is very forgiving in terms of underexposing by 1 stop and then bringing back in post processing and have therefore been able to shoot at lower iso's than anticipated.. Therefore I have not had too many issues with having to use high iso's and agree that 1600 usually is the upper limit in terms of noise in dark areas. Most importantly having the range of 24-600 in that environment was a godsend as there was often not time to switch cameras or lenses while capturing elusive wildlife or some forest scenes. It would also been very difficult to hike and operate in that environment with heavier equipment as it was quite humid and even rained on a few occassions. The camera did better than I expected with the challenges and I just had to use a bag of silica gel to reduce the effect of humidity. I have also been able to use the anti-motion blur scene option to great advantage in very low light situations--although the results are jpg and not raw.

It is a good idea to rent the camera and compare the results but it also takes a while to master the many features of the Mark 4 and I used the Friedman book as a great help for that.
 
I have taken my RX100 M1 on three vacations to Northern California that featured a lot of photography in redwood forests. The major challenge there is the extreme dynamic range between sky and shadows. My solution was to assign exposure compensation to the front ring and watch the histogram carefully in order to not over expose the sky. Usually I was underexposing by 2/3 or a full stop. I also used the two second self-timer when the shutter speed was anything slower than 1/50 of second. The implementation of the self-timer is really nice; you get a clear countdown so that you can make sure the camera is steady when the shutter fires.

I also shot with a Coolpix A (APSC) and my results were a little better with that camera especially in terms of dynamic range, but in most cases not that noticeable. I may have gotten lucky, but the lens on my RX100 is exceptionally sharp, especially at anything around F/4.0.
 
Ben of the North said:
Hi,

Im a Fujifilm shooter, i own an XT2 with 6 lenses. I mostly shoot nature in forests, closeup shots, macro shots and telephoto/zoom shots... often there is less light under all trees leaves and i can end up shooting in moderate lowlight.

I was wondering if the combo RX10 M4 and RX100 M6 would be perfect for me...

RX100 M6 for tough hiking in mountains (light setup) still can do closeup and zoom at 200mm

And the RX10 M4 for the rest.

Weight is a big factor since i hike a lot and weight is an issue pretty quickly when carrying multiple lenses.... i often end up bringing only 1 or 2, sometimes 3 lenses and once in the trails i regret not taking that lens so i miss a shot.

The versatily of the RX10 M4 is like perfect... i know the downside is the sensor.... 1" compared to the big APSC in my Fuji ...

Anyone in here shoot a lot of pictures in forests with those 2 cameras? How do you like it?
Click to expand...
Ben... after a Fuji X-Pro 1, followed by an X-T1, followed by an X-T20 and lots of Fuji glass and Minolta manual focus glass I needed to pare down. We do cruises and ground excursions and due to advancing age and severe osteoarthritis I no longer want to carry even an X-T20 with an 18-55, as restrictive as that is, on ground excursions. I went cell for a few trips bringing the X-T20 and the 55-200 for ship to shore and finally decided to go Sony RX100 m6 for shore excursions and an RX10 m4 for ship to shore.

I have about 500 test shots on the m6 and I can tell you it's an amazing little camera. I did some shooting indoors at a Farmer's Market and it quite good to ISO 5000 IMHO unless you will be doing some serious cropping .... which I would not understand since it is tack sharp throughout the range 24-200, and in SZ (Smart Zoom) all the way to 280 mm. I've even seen excellent sharpness all the way to 400mm with the 5 mpxl SZ mode. Of course if I was going to shoot at 400mm I would pickup the 10 m4 and use it.

We leave in a few days for a Montreal to NYC Cruise and the m6 will be on a BlackRapid Street Strap and I have another full size BlackRapid for the m4. I like to keep my hands free for railings, stairs and such on shore or ship.

The m6 and m4 have the same sensor and it is noisier than Fuji's X in the T2 and T20 but unless you need lots of stuff over 3200, and more specifically 5000, I'd say no worries. Of course the lower the better, especially if you need to crop but then again they have huge range.
 
Ben of the North said:
Travelshooter said:
Ben of the North said:
B
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answer Martin! I will think about it
Click to expand...
As far as lifting shadows or black to very dark areas in PP (I use Lightroom) they seem about the same as Fuji. I do think the m6 is sharper than the 55-300 and certainly the 18-55. FWIW, they both will shoot 10 or 24 fps with a new autofocus for each frame and dead on tracking. The m6 (they both actually) have Eye Focus and at 200mm I can count the eyelashes on my wife's eye clearly. Pretty scary stuff for a pocket camera.
 
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