Fuji's design philosophy vs Nikon

I was at best buy today and also checked out the D850

the problem is the construction - it just feels cheap compared to my D700.

The wheels are thin and flimsy looking.

the plastic used looks cheaper

the optical viewfinder is meh

the tactile feel of buttons is bad

the construction does not seem rugged even compared to a Canon 7dM2

Fuji on the other hand is like a Japanese Leica - its just a whole different level of construction

its more like a labor of love than a mass produced product

( I did try the A7iii holy crap does it live up to the hype about the eye focus but even still I like the EVF on my T-2 wayyy more)
 
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I was in Best Buy a few days ago and they also had the Nikon D850 on display...they said they had been begging since it came out for a display copy, but only got it a week ago! No local camera shop I know of has it, though, although my favorite shop does have all the Fuji cameras!
 
Now jumping to the new Z cameras Nikon still does the exact same things to it's customers and cripples several features that are very important to photographers.
Fuji is notoriously bad about not giving the X100 series much int he way of kaizen updates, they are crippled when compared to the ILC bodies. For example, even the X-E2 received the 4.0 AF upgrade with tracking, but the X100S didn't. Fuji has no plan to give the X100F the new AF upgrade. Fuji is good about updates, but they are not beyond reproach.
Would you be happier if they just swapped your camera for a newer model every year like an Apple iPhone or something?

I guess some people aren't happy unless they are complaining.
 
Now jumping to the new Z cameras Nikon still does the exact same things to it's customers and cripples several features that are very important to photographers.
Fuji is notoriously bad about not giving the X100 series much int he way of kaizen updates, they are crippled when compared to the ILC bodies. For example, even the X-E2 received the 4.0 AF upgrade with tracking, but the X100S didn't. Fuji has no plan to give the X100F the new AF upgrade. Fuji is good about updates, but they are not beyond reproach.
Darn it Darn! I honestly did not know this. I just bought the X100F a couple of months ago and used it on my last 2 trips. Love it. I didn't know it didn't get the same number of firmware updates.

Why? Its the same sensor, processor and menus. What is the holdup? What is the limitation? I don't get it.

It is a professional camera body with a pro lens. They don't update the firmware as much? Why? Dammit Darn....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
 
Now jumping to the new Z cameras Nikon still does the exact same things to it's customers and cripples several features that are very important to photographers.
Fuji is notoriously bad about not giving the X100 series much int he way of kaizen updates, they are crippled when compared to the ILC bodies. For example, even the X-E2 received the 4.0 AF upgrade with tracking, but the X100S didn't. Fuji has no plan to give the X100F the new AF upgrade. Fuji is good about updates, but they are not beyond reproach.
Would you be happier if they just swapped your camera for a newer model every year like an Apple iPhone or something?

I guess some people aren't happy unless they are complaining.
I have an X-Pro2 so why would i need Fuji to swap it for a newer X-Pro2 since my camera gets firmware updates? What do you think a new X-Pro2 would give me over the updated X-Pro2 I already own? Fuji doesn’t update its camera bodies annually so how would that even work? That being said, Fuji is welcome to swap my X-Pro2 for an X-Pro3 once it is released. 😁

But even I can observe that Fuji neglects the X100 series, from the X100S forward, as far as firmware updates are concerned. And thats a shame since Fuji is good about updating even the non-premium cameras.

Dont you think it’s a little ridiculous that’s even the X-E2 received the 4.0 AF update while the X100T didn’t?

--
www.darngoodphotos.com
 
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Now jumping to the new Z cameras Nikon still does the exact same things to it's customers and cripples several features that are very important to photographers.
Fuji is notoriously bad about not giving the X100 series much int he way of kaizen updates, they are crippled when compared to the ILC bodies. For example, even the X-E2 received the 4.0 AF upgrade with tracking, but the X100S didn't. Fuji has no plan to give the X100F the new AF upgrade. Fuji is good about updates, but they are not beyond reproach.
Darn it Darn! I honestly did not know this. I just bought the X100F a couple of months ago and used it on my last 2 trips. Love it. I didn't know it didn't get the same number of firmware updates.

Why? Its the same sensor, processor and menus. What is the holdup? What is the limitation? I don't get it.

It is a professional camera body with a pro lens. They don't update the firmware as much? Why? Dammit Darn....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums
Yup, I was bummed when I heard this too. You still can’t rename the custom settings on the X100F like you can on other Fuji camera’s. And no flicker reduction setting. But it’s true, Fuji just doesn’t care about the X100 series once it leaves the factory and that’s a shame. The hold up is the fact that it’s a fixed lens camera so Fuji doesn’t make future money off of it once it’s sold.

--
After all is said and done and your photo is hanging on the wall, no one is going to know or care what camera, lens, or what post processing you used. All they care about is if the image moves them.
 
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+1

DSLR may be giving up market share to mirrorless, but the technology and design has been honed over generations. In many ways, the D850 is the pinnacle. If I didn't worry about fine tuning each lens to the body, I would still be tempted - as I am tempted by the Z7. :-)
That's a big reson I don't shoot DSLR's anymore. Back focus issues are a bummer. Who needs that.
 
Now jumping to the new Z cameras Nikon still does the exact same things to it's customers and cripples several features that are very important to photographers.
Fuji is notoriously bad about not giving the X100 series much int he way of kaizen updates, they are crippled when compared to the ILC bodies. For example, even the X-E2 received the 4.0 AF upgrade with tracking, but the X100S didn't. Fuji has no plan to give the X100F the new AF upgrade. Fuji is good about updates, but they are not beyond reproach.
Darn it Darn! I honestly did not know this. I just bought the X100F a couple of months ago and used it on my last 2 trips. Love it. I didn't know it didn't get the same number of firmware updates.

Why? Its the same sensor, processor and menus. What is the holdup? What is the limitation? I don't get it.

It is a professional camera body with a pro lens. They don't update the firmware as much? Why? Dammit Darn....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums
It seems to be a marketing strategy. You and a fixed-lens camera are dead to Fuji once you purchase. No more major purchases from you until the next camera, which they want you to purchase sooner than later.

Fuji pumps new adrenaline periodically into ILC models to keep them even more attractive longer. People will still lust for more lenses. Thus is very profitable for Fuji.

I wouldn't purchase a fixed-lens camera from Fuji unless I was 100 percent happy with the FW it came with.

Sal
 
  1. CMCM wrote:
I was in Best Buy a few days ago and they also had the Nikon D850 on display...they said they had been begging since it came out for a display copy, but only got it a week ago! No local camera shop I know of has it, though, although my favorite shop does have all the Fuji cameras!
Even A7III seems to be moving very fast, difficult to find a body...
 
I'm confused. So you guys are saying that Nikon and Sony are so popular that camera stores can't get them but the shelves are full of Fuji gear? Really?


Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
 
I'm confused. So you guys are saying that Nikon and Sony are so popular that camera stores can't get them but the shelves are full of Fuji gear? Really?

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums
Noooo, I’m not saying that. At BB they were frustrated that Nikon wanted them to sell the 850 but look how long it took to get a store sample. I have no idea how well they are selling and didn’t ask. At a local camera shop they have Nikons and Canons but seem to prefer and push Fuji and Sony more than others. The appear to stock more of those, probably due to demand.
 
I'm confused. So you guys are saying that Nikon and Sony are so popular that camera stores can't get them but the shelves are full of Fuji gear? Really?

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums
Noooo, I’m not saying that. At BB they were frustrated that Nikon wanted them to sell the 850 but look how long it took to get a store sample. I have no idea how well they are selling and didn’t ask. At a local camera shop they have Nikons and Canons but seem to prefer and push Fuji and Sony more than others. The appear to stock more of those, probably due to demand.
At recent Nikon Z launch I was spoke to someone from Nikon and he said Sony has much higher budgets and deeper pockets then Canon or Nikon, that’s why they are able to promote their products faster.

Fuji seems to have developed a hype around their products which is strange as they don’t have any FF product and are either on APS-C or MF. They are apparently selling more thru some brand ambassadors and word of mouth.

All said and done even the Camera Store in India told me maximum selling are Sony and Fuji. That trend seems to be worldwide.
 
I'm confused. So you guys are saying that Nikon and Sony are so popular that camera stores can't get them but the shelves are full of Fuji gear? Really?

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums
Noooo, I’m not saying that. At BB they were frustrated that Nikon wanted them to sell the 850 but look how long it took to get a store sample. I have no idea how well they are selling and didn’t ask. At a local camera shop they have Nikons and Canons but seem to prefer and push Fuji and Sony more than others. The appear to stock more of those, probably due to demand.
In that case they are simply doing their job. I think for most amateur photographers, mirrorless just makes more sense than a bulky dslr in 2018. It’s probably made more sense the last 5-6 years but now the prices are way down.

It’s good advice what the shop says. I have shot with canon and Nikon digital cameras ongoing since like 2002. They just haven’t innovated like Fuji, Panasonic and Sony has in the compact mirrorless market. They don’t have the bodies, they don’t have the lenses. Simple as that, nothing against them. Put out the right products and I would consider it.

Nikon and canons strategy for years was to cripple their low end offerings to get you to eventually to buy their pro lenses and bodies. That strategy isn’t working anymore bc there are better options out there.
 
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Honestly you seem to swing one way and then the other with different cameras/brands. So much so that I can't take anything you say seriously about any of them. And really if Nikon is causing you such grief just get over it, walk away, use another brand. Then likely you'll be happier and Nikon won't fail without you. You can be critical of the best camera in the world (D850) all you like but its not going to change anything.
Not swinging one way than the other and I have a D4 with XH1 and shooting happily with it so far. I need two more bodies and that's why I went to take a look at the D850 so I said what I think about it so I'm not asking you to take any of this "seriously" this is just my personal opinion and that's all it is.

I'm not walking away from anything I just don't feel the D850 is worth over $3K and no I don't like the way Nikon sees their customers. I have felt that way for many years and they still don't change.
You still haven't told us what you think Fuji's design philosophy is or what Nikon's design philosophy is?

Personally - I have both Fuji and Nikon and I don't like how Fuji is trying to move their prices up - I personally feel that the X-H1 is not worth $1899 USD.
Okay you sure got me there partner when it comes to Fuji's pricing on APS-C :-)

Originally I was mainly talking about the physical camera designs between these two particular camera manufacturers, more specifically certain aspects of the D850 and XH1.
Huh? You can get a brand new X-H1 for $1649 USD on Amazon, Adorama, and B&H Photo.
Maybe Canadianguy is rounding it up, the price for the XH1 with a SD card plus tax is about $1899 :-)

Having said that, I personally try not to ever pay for full price and I look for sales, like no sales tax and free shipping. That makes a difference. But yeah the X-H1 for being APS-C ain't cheap these days. FF is coming out in full force from more camera manufacturers and if Fuji doesn't lower their prices a bit then something is definitely wrong. Just my opinion :-)
Sorry – I haven’t been keeping up with the sales on the X-H1 – I was just looking at the launch price. 6 months after release and a $250 price drop – pretty hard for any APS-C camera to sustain a $1899 price point in today’s market.

I own a D850 and tried the X-H1 for a few minutes so cannot really say much about the Fuji X-H1 specifically but do own the X-T2 so I will speak generically about the Nikon Vs Fuji design philosophies.

Nikon DSLRs has 3 main body designs: 1) Consumer with the PASM dial; 2) Semi-pro with the 3-4 king dial ; 3) Pro with the fully gripped design – cameras within the 3 main types are pretty much the same in terms of button layouts – there are minor changes but not a big deal.

Nikon has about 3-4 sensor designs in their current lineup – 20 MP (speed) / 24 MP (Generalists) / 46 MP (Hi-res) in 36x24 sensors and 24 MP and 20 MP in the APS-C line.

Fujifilm has 5/6 body designs – I cannot keep count, every model has a different body design – they have the rangefinder like designs with the offset viewfinder, the DSLR like designs with the viewfinder in the middle, the vlogger design with the selfie screen, body designs for everything under the sun.

Fujifilm uses only 2 sensor for all their designs – 24 MP in ASP-C and a 50MP in the 44x33mm size – they seem to like the cropped sensors :-)

Of course by reusing the same sensors – they get to keep their sensor purchase volumes up and can invest in developing firmware for the sensor and processor line.

But they really have to release their products from highest priced to lowest price in that order when they move to a new sensor / processor line. I am surprised they aren’t releasing a X-H2 before they push out the X-T3 with the next generation sensor.
 
Honestly you seem to swing one way and then the other with different cameras/brands. So much so that I can't take anything you say seriously about any of them. And really if Nikon is causing you such grief just get over it, walk away, use another brand. Then likely you'll be happier and Nikon won't fail without you. You can be critical of the best camera in the world (D850) all you like but its not going to change anything.
Not swinging one way than the other and I have a D4 with XH1 and shooting happily with it so far. I need two more bodies and that's why I went to take a look at the D850 so I said what I think about it so I'm not asking you to take any of this "seriously" this is just my personal opinion and that's all it is.

I'm not walking away from anything I just don't feel the D850 is worth over $3K and no I don't like the way Nikon sees their customers. I have felt that way for many years and they still don't change.
You still haven't told us what you think Fuji's design philosophy is or what Nikon's design philosophy is?

Personally - I have both Fuji and Nikon and I don't like how Fuji is trying to move their prices up - I personally feel that the X-H1 is not worth $1899 USD.
Okay you sure got me there partner when it comes to Fuji's pricing on APS-C :-)

Originally I was mainly talking about the physical camera designs between these two particular camera manufacturers, more specifically certain aspects of the D850 and XH1.
Huh? You can get a brand new X-H1 for $1649 USD on Amazon, Adorama, and B&H Photo.
Maybe Canadianguy is rounding it up, the price for the XH1 with a SD card plus tax is about $1899 :-)

Having said that, I personally try not to ever pay for full price and I look for sales, like no sales tax and free shipping. That makes a difference. But yeah the X-H1 for being APS-C ain't cheap these days. FF is coming out in full force from more camera manufacturers and if Fuji doesn't lower their prices a bit then something is definitely wrong. Just my opinion :-)
Sorry – I haven’t been keeping up with the sales on the X-H1 – I was just looking at the launch price. 6 months after release and a $250 price drop – pretty hard for any APS-C camera to sustain a $1899 price point in today’s market.

I own a D850 and tried the X-H1 for a few minutes so cannot really say much about the Fuji X-H1 specifically but do own the X-T2 so I will speak generically about the Nikon Vs Fuji design philosophies.

Nikon DSLRs has 3 main body designs: 1) Consumer with the PASM dial; 2) Semi-pro with the 3-4 king dial ; 3) Pro with the fully gripped design – cameras within the 3 main types are pretty much the same in terms of button layouts – there are minor changes but not a big deal.

Nikon has about 3-4 sensor designs in their current lineup – 20 MP (speed) / 24 MP (Generalists) / 46 MP (Hi-res) in 36x24 sensors and 24 MP and 20 MP in the APS-C line.

Fujifilm has 5/6 body designs – I cannot keep count, every model has a different body design – they have the rangefinder like designs with the offset viewfinder, the DSLR like designs with the viewfinder in the middle, the vlogger design with the selfie screen, body designs for everything under the sun.

Fujifilm uses only 2 sensor for all their designs – 24 MP in ASP-C and a 50MP in the 44x33mm size – they seem to like the cropped sensors :-)

Of course by reusing the same sensors – they get to keep their sensor purchase volumes up and can invest in developing firmware for the sensor and processor line.

But they really have to release their products from highest priced to lowest price in that order when they move to a new sensor / processor line. I am surprised they aren’t releasing a X-H2 before they push out the X-T3 with the next generation sensor.
Why, the X-H1 is only 6 months old whereas the X-T2 is 2 years old. Why would Fuji kill a 6 month old flagship camera?
 

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