Sony was TOO SLOW

JimKasson said:

MrHollywood said:

I've had a careful look at the Nikon Z6 and Z7 and now I'm reading about the new Canon mirrorless, which also looks like it has some compelling ideas with a slick set of new lenses... Let's be honest: That EOS R looks very good and slips a fast gut-punch right between the Z6 and a A7rIII.

And it occurs to me with total clarity that this was Sony's game to lose and they lost it. With the latest models they had the chance to OWN the market. All they needed was improved handling, build and weatherproofing to create true pro-grade products.

But instead they remained hooked into the dreaded prosumer mindset and now Canon and Nikon have comparable or better products that will end any cross-market bleeding and will kill any chance Sony might have had to capture customers.

Betting on Sony has always been a problem in the long run, coming in strong with a product, only to get clobbered in the last innings.

I have to laugh at the negativity of some posters. They really miss the point. Nikon just started a new camera line with a larger mount. The Z6/Z7 are just the first of many cameras to come and they'll have MASSIVE optical advantages due to that mount.

Yes, it's a game changer. And it relegates Sony to full "also ran status" which is a shame.

Click to expand...

Extreme extrapolation from incomplete, noisy data.

Jim

Click to expand...

Laslo Varadi said:

MrHollywood said:

bobabend said:

I believe Sony deserves a lot of credit for developing their full frame mirrorless cameras. Would there be a Z or R series had they not? I don't think so. The main area I fault Sony in is not listening to their customers and common sense. As examples, lack of weather sealing and lossless compressed have been obvious flaws & requested for years.

The actual truth is that Nikon & Canon were WAY TOO SLOW!

Click to expand...

That's a great point and I'm not being sarcastic.

But I believe that when the dust settles, we'll all be agreeing that Sony led what amounted to a strong "beta testing" program that allowed the Canikon monster to catch them in a single swoop.

Again, I'll use the iPhone as an example. They stumbled as Samsung went for big displays and phones that felt better was were less restrictive. Today Samsung is #1 in cell phone sales AND cross marketed tech.

Click to expand...

If you don’t count the technology they stole from Apple.

Apple is the first company that exceeds 1 trillion $ value and my Apple stock is way up there, so they can’t be doing too bad.

Laslo Varadi said:

Rob

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

nerd2 said:

It lacks IBIS. It uses canon's 30MP sensor which will probably be way worse than Sony/Nikon offerings in terms of DR and resolution.

On the other hand Sony had first FF mirrorless, first FF IBIS, first BSI sensor, first blackout-less 20fps continuous shooting, first eye-AF and so on. Sony IS innovative and nikon is at least trying to catch up.

Yes their new f2 zoom looks impressive but it will be totally impractical, especially with lightweight mirrorless bodies.

MrHollywood said:

I've had a careful look at the Nikon Z6 and Z7 and now I'm reading about the new Canon mirrorless, which also looks like it has some compelling ideas with a slick set of new lenses... Let's be honest: That EOS R looks very good and slips a fast gut-punch right between the Z6 and a A7rIII.

And it occurs to me with total clarity that this was Sony's game to lose and they lost it. With the latest models they had the chance to OWN the market. All they needed was improved handling, build and weatherproofing to create true pro-grade products.

But instead they remained hooked into the dreaded prosumer mindset and now Canon and Nikon have comparable or better products that will end any cross-market bleeding and will kill any chance Sony might have had to capture customers.

Betting on Sony has always been a problem in the long run, coming in strong with a product, only to get clobbered in the last innings.

I have to laugh at the negativity of some posters. They really miss the point. Nikon just started a new camera line with a larger mount. The Z6/Z7 are just the first of many cameras to come and they'll have MASSIVE optical advantages due to that mount.

Yes, it's a game changer. And it relegates Sony to full "also ran status" which is a shame.

Rob

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

digitallollygag said:

MrHollywood said:

bobabend said:

I believe Sony deserves a lot of credit for developing their full frame mirrorless cameras. Would there be a Z or R series had they not? I don't think so. The main area I fault Sony in is not listening to their customers and common sense. As examples, lack of weather sealing and lossless compressed have been obvious flaws & requested for years.

The actual truth is that Nikon & Canon were WAY TOO SLOW!

Click to expand...

That's a great point and I'm not being sarcastic.

But I believe that when the dust settles, we'll all be agreeing that Sony led what amounted to a strong "beta testing" program that allowed the Canikon monster to catch them in a single swoop.

Again, I'll use the iPhone as an example. They stumbled as Samsung went for big displays and phones that felt better was were less restrictive. Today Samsung is #1 in cell phone sales AND cross marketed tech.

Rob

Click to expand...

Your analogy to Apple/Samsung is not fitting to the argument against Sony.

I have a cloudy crystal ball as to whether or not Canikon have caught up/surpassed Sony with their first full-frame iterations. I have no idea at all.

But to say Samsung is all that and a bag of potato chips, while Apple has “stumbled” is ridiculous: Apple has a considerably smaller worldwide market share than Samsung, but they make much more margin per unit sold than Samsung could ever dream of. I don’t have to provide links, everyone can Google it. The Apple-Samsung comparison to Sony versus Canikon makes no sense at all.

Click to expand...

MrHollywood said:

I've had a careful look at the Nikon Z6 and Z7 and now I'm reading about the new Canon mirrorless, which also looks like it has some compelling ideas with a slick set of new lenses... Let's be honest: That EOS R looks very good and slips a fast gut-punch right between the Z6 and a A7rIII.

And it occurs to me with total clarity that this was Sony's game to lose and they lost it. With the latest models they had the chance to OWN the market. All they needed was improved handling, build and weatherproofing to create true pro-grade products.

But instead they remained hooked into the dreaded prosumer mindset and now Canon and Nikon have comparable or better products that will end any cross-market bleeding and will kill any chance Sony might have had to capture customers.

Betting on Sony has always been a problem in the long run, coming in strong with a product, only to get clobbered in the last innings.

I have to laugh at the negativity of some posters. They really miss the point. Nikon just started a new camera line with a larger mount. The Z6/Z7 are just the first of many cameras to come and they'll have MASSIVE optical advantages due to that mount.

Yes, it's a game changer. And it relegates Sony to full "also ran status" which is a shame.

Rob

Click to expand...

MrHollywood said:

SpinOne said:

MrHollywood said:

And it occurs to me with total clarity that this was Sony's game to lose and they lost it.

Click to expand...

Huh?

Nikon Z isn't out yet. Canon R isn't even announced yet.

Sony has spent the past 3 years eating CaNikon's lunch. They have numerous bodies, and a near-complete lens lineup. Nikon has... 3 native lenses. Even 3 years from now, they won't have as many lenses available as Sony.

It's way too early to take a victory lap.

Click to expand...

Nikon and Canon lead in overall sales. They lead in ALL professional fields as well.

Sony's never had a victory to begin with because their market share is lower than the big names.

They've effectively given up their lead and you will see this reflected in less than a year.

Click to expand...

MrHollywood said:

Laslo Varadi said:

MrHollywood said:

bobabend said:

I believe Sony deserves a lot of credit for developing their full frame mirrorless cameras. Would there be a Z or R series had they not? I don't think so. The main area I fault Sony in is not listening to their customers and common sense. As examples, lack of weather sealing and lossless compressed have been obvious flaws & requested for years.

The actual truth is that Nikon & Canon were WAY *TOO SLOW!*

Click to expand...

That's a great point and I'm not being sarcastic.

But I believe that when the dust settles, we'll all be agreeing that Sony led what amounted to a strong "beta testing" program that allowed the Canikon monster to catch them in a single swoop.

Again, I'll use the iPhone as an example. They stumbled as Samsung went for big displays and phones that felt better was were less restrictive. Today Samsung is #1 in cell phone sales AND cross marketed tech.

Click to expand...

If you don’t count the technology they stole from Apple.

Apple is the first company that exceeds 1 trillion $ value and my Apple stock is way up there, so they can’t be doing too bad.

Click to expand...

Nobody said they were doing bad. McDonald's is also doing well, but those burgers are pretty lousy.

There came a point when Apple went from leading the market to following it.

You're about to see the same type of transition now where Sony will no longer lead.

Rob

Click to expand...

MrHollywood said:

digitallollygag said:

MrHollywood said:

bobabend said:

I believe Sony deserves a lot of credit for developing their full frame mirrorless cameras. Would there be a Z or R series had they not? I don't think so. The main area I fault Sony in is not listening to their customers and common sense. As examples, lack of weather sealing and lossless compressed have been obvious flaws & requested for years.

The actual truth is that Nikon & Canon were WAY *TOO SLOW!*

Click to expand...

That's a great point and I'm not being sarcastic.

But I believe that when the dust settles, we'll all be agreeing that Sony led what amounted to a strong "beta testing" program that allowed the Canikon monster to catch them in a single swoop.

Again, I'll use the iPhone as an example. They stumbled as Samsung went for big displays and phones that felt better was were less restrictive. Today Samsung is #1 in cell phone sales AND cross marketed tech.

Rob

Click to expand...

Your analogy to Apple/Samsung is not fitting to the argument against Sony.

I have a cloudy crystal ball as to whether or not Canikon have caught up/surpassed Sony with their first full-frame iterations. I have no idea at all.

But to say Samsung is all that and a bag of potato chips, while Apple has “stumbled” is ridiculous: Apple has a considerably smaller worldwide market share than Samsung, but they make much more margin per unit sold than Samsung could ever dream of. I don’t have to provide links, everyone can Google it. The Apple-Samsung comparison to Sony versus Canikon makes no sense at all.

Click to expand...

You don't comprehend the argument.

This is about leading the market and then ending up following it. Apple once brought features out before anyone else, but that role has shifted to Samsung.

Apple actually announces "new" features that are previous generation Samsung features.

Sony slid badly when they ignored the "big screen" craze.

Sony fans can jump up & down and scream, but Sony just slid WAY back in the pack.

Rob

Click to expand...