Consider the Critics

Let's consider the major critics of this Z system.

We have the Angry Photographer; need I say more? Zero credibility, almost a badge of honor that he is a critic.

We have Jason Lanier, former Sony Artisan spokesperson, but one who Sony abruptly dropped with no explanation. One can imagine all sorts of reasons why, but interestingly enough he got into a war of words with The Angry Photographer. Two pigs wrestling in the mud. Again, almost a badge of honor if he doesn't like it.

Then we have the Northrups. Far more likable, but no particularly outstanding skills or experience. I was discussing this some pro photog friends of mine, and when I mentioned their names, they said "who is that?" When I explained the situation, that they had only 1 hour with this new tech camera, they burst into laughter. One said, "why in the world would anyone pay attention to what they say?"

So we have 2 who haven't even touched the camera, and one who had it for one hour.

So why should we give these people any measure of credibility? The fact that they are the most strident critics says that most likely the Z system if excellent.

If you enjoy seeing what well-known people online say, by all means do look them up and watch/read their content. If you don't, then disregard their opinions. Some of these people have the benefit of being able to handle the cameras early, so watching their content for that aspect does provide some benefit outside of their opinion. In that case look between the lines and disregard their opinion. I've seen some mistakes in that case like where they mixed up the price of the 50/35mm, but it's a simple accident.

Here is a suggestion,

Look at the specifications for yourself on Nikon's website. Send them an email if something doesn't make sense or is missing. Write down a list of what you need and see if it aligns. If it does fulfill your needs and actually provides benefit over your current equipment worth the added costs of a switch, take a further step. Contact your local camera shop and see if you will be able to handle one of the cameras they get in. Though local shops have taken a hit over the years, they still exist. I have a solid relationship built over years with the people at my local shop so it's very likely I'll be able to try one out and make a video about it.

I've done the first step and have seen it doesn't align with my personal needs. I also put my opinion out there based on specifications alone. I don't understand the idea of criticizing these people for their opinion. It sounds like you've decided you won't take their words to heart and that's fine.

Thoughts R Us said:

We have the Angry Photographer; need I say more? Zero credibility, almost a badge of honor that he is a critic.

Click to expand...

"Almost"? What do you mean "almost" ? :-D :-D :-D

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

I fault the Northrups for drawing conclusions based on very incomplete testing. If this were a scientific test published in a journal, they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

They have created a platform; I grant them that, but again they seem to have no special technical skills. I do think they are great at marketing and do have winsome personalities, and that is not a knock on them. Those are essential skills for success and I credit them for that.

And because they do have a platform they need to be careful on how they use it.

But my point is this: why should there be such weight given to their opinion? They are not seen as ultimate authorities in their field, and they did not conduct anywhere near an empirical test. So it's virtually useless.

It would be like a movie critic passing judgement on a movie without actually seeing it, or seeing only a few scenes from it.

Thoughts R Us said:

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

I fault the Northrups for drawing conclusions based on very incomplete testing. If this were a scientific test published in a journal, they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

Click to expand...

The Northrups gave a drawing conclusion?? I saw their video and enjoyed it. I don't know them by the way. From what I recall they specifically said that wasn't the final camera and they weren't doing a review. It was more like their opinion and first time impression since they had a pre production body and to make it really short those first time impression was not so great regarding AF.

I personally didn't find that hard to understand.

Thoughts R Us said:

They have created a platform; I grant them that, but again they seem to have no special technical skills. I do think they are great at marketing and do have winsome personalities, and that is not a knock on them. Those are essential skills for success and I credit them for that.

And because they do have a platform they need to be careful on how they use it.

But my point is this: why should there be such weight given to their opinion? They are not seen as ultimate authorities in their field, and they did not conduct anywhere near an empirical test. So it's virtually useless.

It would be like a movie critic passing judgement on a movie without actually seeing it, or seeing only a few scenes from it.

Click to expand...

Richard Butler and Rishi Sanyal. They had the camera for much more then an hour. Their observations about the autofocus seem broadly consistent with the Northrups.

A reviewers conclusions are not really important. What is important is what they observe after using and testing a camera.

Thoughts R Us said:

So why should we give these people any measure of credibility?

Click to expand...

We shouldn't.

Thoughts R Us said:

The fact that they are the most strident critics says that most likely the Z system if excellent.

Click to expand...

Uhm... No, it really doesn't.

What if there are indeed legitimate issues and yet Nikon considers the cameras "good enough" for pre release to the press and eventual release to production? Would you rather that these issues not be raised to gain the attention of Nikon management?

Alex Permit said:

Richard Butler and Rishi Sanyal. They had the camera for much more then an hour. Their observations about the autofocus seem broadly consistent with the Northrups.

A reviewers conclusions are not really important. What is important is what they observe after using and testing a camera.

Click to expand...

DPR generally rated the AF performance as quite good, much better than the Northrups. What they criticized was the UI.

skookum8 said:

What if there are indeed legitimate issues and yet Nikon considers the cameras "good enough" for pre release to the press and eventual release to production? Would you rather that these issues not be raised to gain the attention of Nikon management?

Click to expand...

Of course...but again there is zero evidence that these issues exist. Just opinions by people either with zero experience using the cameras or one with one whole hour.

This is a new camera; DPR noted how the AF UI had changed. You need time to learn the equipment and then do more extensive testing.

Batdude said:

Thoughts R Us said:

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

I fault the Northrups for drawing conclusions based on very incomplete testing. If this were a scientific test published in a journal, they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

Click to expand...

The Northrups gave a drawing conclusion?? I saw their video and enjoyed it. I don't know them by the way. From what I recall they specifically said that wasn't the final camera and they weren't doing a review. It was more like their opinion and first time impression since they had a pre production body and to make it really short those first time impression was not so great regarding AF.

I personally didn't find that hard to understand.

Batdude said:

They have created a platform; I grant them that, but again they seem to have no special technical skills. I do think they are great at marketing and do have winsome personalities, and that is not a knock on them. Those are essential skills for success and I credit them for that.

And because they do have a platform they need to be careful on how they use it.

But my point is this: why should there be such weight given to their opinion? They are not seen as ultimate authorities in their field, and they did not conduct anywhere near an empirical test. So it's virtually useless.

It would be like a movie critic passing judgement on a movie without actually seeing it, or seeing only a few scenes from it.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Clearly judging by the internet reaction, the Northrups did draw some conclusions. Sure they said their disqualifiers, but people took the headline conclusion and ran with it. They should know by now that this would be expected to happen.

Wait! Jason Lanier was “dropped” as a Sony Artisan spokesperson?

I did t know that. The video critiques of people with barely more time with the camera than the length of the video doesn’t concern me. I have a friend who’s an early adopter. When he gets his, I’ll ask him then maybe rent one.

Thoughts R Us said:

Let's consider the major critics of this Z system.

We have the Angry Photographer; need I say more? Zero credibility, almost a badge of honor that he is a critic.

Click to expand...

he is an Alex Jones wannabe who also thinks he knows more about Magnetism and thus quantum electrodynamics than Richard Feynmann. Don’t know who Feynmann is? Look him up!

Thoughts R Us said:

We have Jason Lanier, former Sony Artisan spokesperson, but one who Sony abruptly dropped with no explanation. One can imagine all sorts of reasons why, but interestingly enough he got into a war of words with The Angry Photographer.

Click to expand...

no one who is associated with the Sony Artisan program who knows the story -and I am good long time real world friends with some of them and they do know - will discuss in text or email conversation the reasons he was fired from the Artisan program.

Thoughts R Us said:

Two pigs wrestling in the mud. Again, almost a badge of honor if he doesn't like it.

Click to expand...

please don’t associate pigs with those two. It’s an insult to the pigs.


Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on instagram @therealellisv

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

Click to expand...

No he does not. Trust me on that one.

TheChappie said:

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

Click to expand...

in total agreement.

TheChappie said:

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

Click to expand...

in total agreement

TheChappie said:

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

in total agreement.

Thoughts R Us said:

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

I fault the Northrups for drawing conclusions based on very incomplete testing. If this were a scientific test published in a journal, they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

They have created a platform; I grant them that, but again they seem to have no special technical skills. I do think they are great at marketing and do have winsome personalities, and that is not a knock on them. Those are essential skills for success and I credit them for that.

And because they do have a platform they need to be careful on how they use it.

But my point is this: why should there be such weight given to their opinion? They are not seen as ultimate authorities in their field, and they did not conduct anywhere near an empirical test. So it's virtually useless.

It would be like a movie critic passing judgement on a movie without actually seeing it, or seeing only a few scenes from it.

Click to expand...

The Northrups specifically said it was a preproduction unit and hey could see many issues being corrected with firmware, and that their testing was performed in poor light. Not sure where you’re coming from.

Their opinion doesn’t have any weight one way or another. It’s an outlet to help you make an informed decision on how to spend (a lot of) your money.

I’m not sure why you’re upset that they weren’t thrilled. They’re giving their experience, one that we don’t have the ability to have on our own.

Thoughts R Us said:

Batdude said:

Thoughts R Us said:

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

I fault the Northrups for drawing conclusions based on very incomplete testing. If this were a scientific test published in a journal, they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

Click to expand...

The Northrups gave a drawing conclusion?? I saw their video and enjoyed it. I don't know them by the way. From what I recall they specifically said that wasn't the final camera and they weren't doing a review. It was more like their opinion and first time impression since they had a pre production body and to make it really short those first time impression was not so great regarding AF.

I personally didn't find that hard to understand.

Thoughts R Us said:

They have created a platform; I grant them that, but again they seem to have no special technical skills. I do think they are great at marketing and do have winsome personalities, and that is not a knock on them. Those are essential skills for success and I credit them for that.

And because they do have a platform they need to be careful on how they use it.

But my point is this: why should there be such weight given to their opinion? They are not seen as ultimate authorities in their field, and they did not conduct anywhere near an empirical test. So it's virtually useless.

It would be like a movie critic passing judgement on a movie without actually seeing it, or seeing only a few scenes from it.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Clearly judging by the internet reaction, the Northrups did draw some conclusions. Sure they said their disqualifiers, but people took the headline conclusion and ran with it. They should know by now that this would be expected to happen.

Click to expand...

Then some people have some SERIOUS problems. I didn't find anything wrong with what the Northrups said. I would have said the same thing: "Not the final product people but so far I am not liking it because of this and that."

Nobody has a final product Z camera so everybody are only giving their initial thoughts based on what NIKON has provided. Blame Nikon instead.

Thoughts R Us said:

Alex Permit said:

Richard Butler and Rishi Sanyal. They had the camera for much more then an hour. Their observations about the autofocus seem broadly consistent with the Northrups.

A reviewers conclusions are not really important. What is important is what they observe after using and testing a camera.

Click to expand...

DPR generally rated the AF performance as quite good, much better than the Northrups. What they criticized was the UI.

Click to expand...

Perhaps we read the reviews differently. I tend to ignore the adjectives. I read and what they tested and their results. Both pointed out issues with subject tracking and face recogonition. Both pointed out the lack of advanced Nikon DSLR AF modes as well as ergonomic issues such as hitting “ok” when switching subjects. I believe both pointed out the lack of a single button to switch AF modes.

That one review calls the AF impressive with caveats, while the other finds it disappointing means nothing to me.

TheChappie said:

Thoughts R Us said:

TheChappie said:

Lanier was a Nikon shooter for a long time, and I don’t think he rolls around in the mud. I don’t know why Sony dropped them, but he still has some sort of professional relationship.

The Angry Photographer is a write off. Not worth wasting air on.

the Northrup’s give fair and honest reviews, and are Nikon shooters. They might not be the most well known outside of YouTube, but who are you in comparison to anyone else out there? They are a duo of experienced shooters who have created a platform and giving their informed perspective, and I’ve always appreciated their input, fame or no fame. It’s a bit silly to say they’re relatively unknown and therefore not to be considered.

In any case, let’s see what happens with the final shipping firmware.

Click to expand...

I fault the Northrups for drawing conclusions based on very incomplete testing. If this were a scientific test published in a journal, they would be laughed out of the scientific community.

They have created a platform; I grant them that, but again they seem to have no special technical skills. I do think they are great at marketing and do have winsome personalities, and that is not a knock on them. Those are essential skills for success and I credit them for that.

And because they do have a platform they need to be careful on how they use it.

But my point is this: why should there be such weight given to their opinion? They are not seen as ultimate authorities in their field, and they did not conduct anywhere near an empirical test. So it's virtually useless.

It would be like a movie critic passing judgement on a movie without actually seeing it, or seeing only a few scenes from it.

Click to expand...

The Northrups specifically said it was a preproduction unit and hey could see many issues being corrected with firmware, and that their testing was performed in poor light. Not sure where you’re coming from.

Their opinion doesn’t have any weight one way or another. It’s an outlet to help you make an informed decision on how to spend (a lot of) your money.

I’m not sure why you’re upset that they weren’t thrilled. They’re giving their experience, one that we don’t have the ability to have on our own.

Click to expand...

The were shooting ISO 800, so it wasn’t a cave. The models they shot seemed well lit. It was, of course, indoors.

Just amazing how people jump to conclusions and are so passionate about a camera. It's almost as if they have a vested interest in it being great.

Why not wait until this thing is released---take a look at in person, read the reviews, and then make your decision. Preordering something that you haven't laid your hands on and will probably have firmware updates is absurd.