D6

I am not saying D5, D850 will die over night, from the business point of view, Nikon will continue to support their DSLR line for 6 ~ 8 years. It's their commitment to the loyal customer base.

OTOH, " pro photographer" is a fast changing market segment, the young inspiring photographers won't buy into the Nikon eco-system, the F-mount (especially AF-D) is numbered.

The 800-pound gorilla in the room is Canon.

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

The mirrorless offering either Nikon or Sony are not very compelling for the sports/action crowd. Lots of little things need a improvement! I'll wager it'll be D7 before we see it, Tokyo will still be all flapping mirrors. I can see the press for redcarpet and press conference will migrate quickly so we can actually not be "disturbed" will be compelling.

Beginning next year, many Japan official events will require total silent photography, does anybody want to guess what cameras will be allowed only ? :-D

chipmaster said:

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

The mirrorless offering either Nikon or Sony are not very compelling for the sports/action crowd. Lots of little things need a improvement! I'll wager it'll be D7 before we see it, Tokyo will still be all flapping mirrors. I can see the press for redcarpet and press conference will migrate quickly so we can actually not be "disturbed" will be compelling.

Click to expand...

Canadianguy said:

NatureFiles said:

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

Really? That would be upsetting considering that's what their best at.

Click to expand...

This tells you everything you need to know.

Until the 300/400/500/600mm primes comes out for the Z-mount, Nikon will keep the D# series going. The guys with those primes are the market for the D# series cameras.

One more clue from today's announcement:

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-p...nses/af-s-nikkor-500mm-f%2f5.6e-pf-ed-vr.html

My money is on the next Summer Olympics for the D6.

Click to expand...

Is there a reason to do a Z-mount big telephoto prime any time in the foreseeable future? Why? Why would Nikon spend any resources on that now?

You can use the existing tele primes on either Z-mount (with adapter) or F-mount. When you've got one of those on, it's not like you're going to notice the weight or size difference between an F-mount lens vs a Z-mount lens - it's a pretty small proportional difference (basically just the adapter).

Maybe someday when Nikon no longer makes F-mount lenses or bodies and they can concentrate all their lens efforts only on Z-mount. But, while they're still supporting F-mount tele primes with new engineering, there seems to be no reason to do a Z-mount version too - just wasted engineering priority that would be better spent on other things that offer customers more bang for the buck.

--
John

Hello123 said:

NatureFiles said:

I'm interested to hear some of your thoughts on when you think Nikon will unveil it's next flagship camera? I work with a D4 on a daily basis and am starting to crave a low light monster with just a little more resolution. I wonder if Nikon will address the low ISO dynamic range issues that seems to have plagued the D5? I wonder if they will break new ground on say a 30mp BSI sensor design? Call me old school but I still love the layout of those big, heavy pro bodies. Not to mention the D# series just have a "look" to them that other cameras don't have.

Click to expand...

I would be very surprised if they came out with a D6. I think the A9 was the dagger in the heart of DSLR's.

Click to expand...

Sony A9 autofocus cannot match Nikon D5 according birding photographers.

According to Nikon rumors, nikon has been testing a low light DSLR camera for almost two years.

jfriend00 said:

Canadianguy said:

NatureFiles said:

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

Really? That would be upsetting considering that's what their best at.

Click to expand...

This tells you everything you need to know.

Until the 300/400/500/600mm primes comes out for the Z-mount, Nikon will keep the D# series going. The guys with those primes are the market for the D# series cameras.

One more clue from today's announcement:

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-p...nses/af-s-nikkor-500mm-f%2f5.6e-pf-ed-vr.html

My money is on the next Summer Olympics for the D6.

Click to expand...

Is there a reason to do a Z-mount big telephoto prime any time in the foreseeable future? Why? Why would Nikon spend any resources on that now?

You can use the existing tele primes on either Z-mount (with adapter) or F-mount. When you've got one of those on, it's not like you're going to notice the weight or size difference between an F-mount lens vs a Z-mount lens - it's a pretty small proportional difference (basically just the adapter).

Maybe someday when Nikon no longer makes F-mount lenses or bodies and they can concentrate all their lens efforts only on Z-mount. But, while they're still supporting F-mount tele primes with new engineering, there seems to be no reason to do a Z-mount version too - just wasted engineering priority that would be better spent on other things that offer customers more bang for the buck.

Click to expand...

These questions and debates really feels like déjà vu – Sony went through all these discussions & debates when they put a 36x24 sensor in their E-mount. Olympus went through all these discussions & debates when they moved from 4/3 to m4/3. No worries – we have the adopter for the 4/3 and A-mount lenses – all the pro F2.8 lenses are there, all the telephoto lenses are there as well – no need to worry. But there were performance issues - lenses designed for PDAF systems don't perform well on CDAF systems.

No pro really took the 36x24 sensor E-mount seriously until the GM lenses came out supported by their MkIII bodies. Olympus had the same issues as well. Sony could not sell the A-mount to the pros and now its just there as an orphan – they throw a new body out once in a while but no new lens announcements. Its hard to justify investing $8-12K USD for a new lens in a system you have doubts about.

Nikon does enjoy an established base of pros on the F-mount and I believe Nikon is trying to keep the sports / PJ pros in the F-mount and move everyone else to the Z-mount and slowly transition everyone to the Z-mount in a 10-15 time frame. But I don’t see them doing that with adopters – they will have to invest in building native lenses if they want the pros to move to them instead of somewhere else.

BUT: From a business perspective: If nikon really wants the mirrorless marked, they NEED the pro marked to start using a Nikon mirrorless instead of going to Sony, because wether you will admit it not, the commercial value of that towards getting all us sheeps bying Z cameras is INVALUABLE.

So a wise business decision would be to deliver a KILLER Zx PRO body with ample battery and sweep the floor with Sony’s A9. There is no business perspective in delivering another dinosaur and giving Sony another couple of years to win the pro’s over.

No matter how dedicated a DSLR user you are, I think we can all agree that a proper featured and excellent focusing mirrorless for sports shooting is by any count superior to a DSLR

If not, here’s some of the reasons:

Continious AF - even while the shot is taken
No EVF blackout while taking a shot
Quiet shooting - even at 20+ frames pr. Second
Way higher framerate than will ever be possible on DSLR due to moving mechanics
Focuspeaking while shooting
For the Z series: A mount with the option of even faster apeture Tele’s



I’m a DSLR shooter and will be for the forseeable future, but there is no denying that Mirrorless will enherit the cameramarked because it can deliver speed and features outside the realm of possibilities for the DSLR.

olivegarden said:

Beginning next year, many Japan official events will require total silent photography, does anybody want to guess what cameras will be allowed only ? :-D

Click to expand...

Do you think the next summer olympics will be a Sony exclusive?

BlackRockArt said:

chipmaster said:

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

The mirrorless offering either Nikon or Sony are not very compelling for the sports/action crowd. Lots of little things need a improvement! I'll wager it'll be D7 before we see it, Tokyo will still be all flapping mirrors. I can see the press for redcarpet and press conference will migrate quickly so we can actually not be "disturbed" will be compelling.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

DerKeyser said:

BUT: From a business perspective: If nikon really wants the mirrorless marked, they NEED the pro marked to start using a Nikon mirrorless instead of going to Sony, because wether you will admit it not, the commercial value of that towards getting all us sheeps bying Z cameras is INVALUABLE.

So a wise business decision would be to deliver a KILLER Zx PRO body with ample battery and sweep the floor with Sony’s A9. There is no business perspective in delivering another dinosaur and giving Sony another couple of years to win the pro’s over.

No matter how dedicated a DSLR user you are, I think we can all agree that a proper featured and excellent focusing mirrorless for sports shooting is by any count superior to a DSLR

If not, here’s some of the reasons:

Continious AF - even while the shot is taken
No EVF blackout while taking a shot
Quiet shooting - even at 20+ frames pr. Second
Way higher framerate than will ever be possible on DSLR due to moving mechanics
Focuspeaking while shooting
For the Z series: A mount with the option of even faster apeture Tele’s

I’m a DSLR shooter and will be for the forseeable future, but there is no denying that Mirrorless will enherit the cameramarked because it can deliver speed and features outside the realm of possibilities for the DSLR.

Click to expand...

Sure but pros also need lenses in addition to bodies and that was my original point – look at the lens road map and you will see when Nikon believes they will make the move for pros.

I have used an A9 – the 70-200mm F2.8 is probably the biggest lens I feel comfortable paired with it and that was with the grip on it. The body and buttons is way too small when paired with longer lenses. For PJs – the Z should be fine when the F2.8 zooms come out – for sports pros – I don’t think its for them.

Electronic shutter is fine in day light but you really have to watch it for banding – LEDs on dimmers can be a PIA. Good thing is that you can see it in the EVF if you have banding. But Nikon hasn’t used a stacked sensor yet. They will need one if they want to rely on an electronic shutter for sports shooting.

NatureFiles said:

I'm interested to hear some of your thoughts on when you think Nikon will unveil it's next flagship camera? I work with a D4 on a daily basis and am starting to crave a low light monster with just a little more resolution. I wonder if Nikon will address the low ISO dynamic range issues that seems to have plagued the D5?

Click to expand...

I don't think it's "an issue." It was a design decision.

NatureFiles said:

I wonder if they will break new ground on say a 30mp BSI sensor design? Call me old school but I still love the layout of those big, heavy pro bodies. Not to mention the D# series just have a "look" to them that other cameras don't have.

Click to expand...

As I look around, here and on the various forums, it appears that some believe that the D850 will be the last DSLR, and that there will be no D6. I concede that this is possible, but that would mean that Nikon has about a year to prepare for the announcement of a pro-level -M ILC that can win the hearts and minds of professional action/sports shooters.

Yes, possible. Probable? Hmm.

We live in interesting times. ;-)

Canadianguy said:

Sure but pros also need lenses in addition to bodies and that was my original point – look at the lens road map and you will see when Nikon believes they will make the move for pros.

I have used an A9 – the 70-200mm F2.8 is probably the biggest lens I feel comfortable paired with it and that was with the grip on it. The body and buttons is way too small when paired with longer lenses. For PJs – the Z should be fine when the F2.8 zooms come out – for sports pros – I don’t think its for them.

Electronic shutter is fine in day light but you really have to watch it for banding – LEDs on dimmers can be a PIA. Good thing is that you can see it in the EVF if you have banding. But Nikon hasn’t used a stacked sensor yet. They will need one if they want to rely on an electronic shutter for sports shooting.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right, but I wasn’t suggesting a Z7’ish pro camera. There’s nothing preventing Nikon from making a mirrorless D5’ish body size with AMPLE battery time, and an even larger and more effective EVF. If they have a next gen sensor ready that solves the frame speed and AF restriction in the current Z’series - well then another PRO DSLR might not only be pointless, but it might loose them the pro marked to an upcoming A9ii.

One obvious point is: it would need to be equally effective in AF with the FTZ adapter as only F-Mount Teles are ready for the olympics in 2020

I think Nikon will start putting fewer resources into the consumer level DSLR's (610,750) in hope of transitioning those customers into the mirrorless system. However, I think they are savvy enough to know that there is a "pro" shooting segment that will still expect two high end DSLRs from Nikon every 2 or 3 years:

1. A high resolution body

2. A rugged sports/action body

Wahrsager said:

NatureFiles said:

I'm interested to hear some of your thoughts on when you think Nikon will unveil it's next flagship camera? I work with a D4 on a daily basis and am starting to crave a low light monster with just a little more resolution. I wonder if Nikon will address the low ISO dynamic range issues that seems to have plagued the D5?

Click to expand...

I don't think it's "an issue." It was a design decision.

Click to expand...

I agree that it was a design decision. I thought this from the beginning, and when the D850 was introduced, an excellent complement for the D5, I saw this as confirmation that it was a design decision, plus, a model differentiation decision. Some photographers will feel a need to buy both. Others will be faced a very difficult decision, of which one to buy.

Yes, I fell into this honey trap, and bought both a D5, and a D850, this year. (This was made possible by a one-time financial windfall; I had never before bought two new DSLRs in the same year, and doing so, again, is quite unlikely.)

DerKeyser said:

BUT: From a business perspective: If nikon really wants the mirrorless marked, they NEED the pro marked to start using a Nikon mirrorless instead of going to Sony, because wether you will admit it not, the commercial value of that towards getting all us sheeps bying Z cameras is INVALUABLE.

So a wise business decision would be to deliver a KILLER Zx PRO body with ample battery and sweep the floor with Sony’s A9. There is no business perspective in delivering another dinosaur and giving Sony another couple of years to win the pro’s over.

No matter how dedicated a DSLR user you are, I think we can all agree that a proper featured and excellent focusing mirrorless for sports shooting is by any count superior to a DSLR

If not, here’s some of the reasons:

Continious AF - even while the shot is taken
No EVF blackout while taking a shot
Quiet shooting - even at 20+ frames pr. Second
Way higher framerate than will ever be possible on DSLR due to moving mechanics
Focuspeaking while shooting
For the Z series: A mount with the option of even faster apeture Tele’s

I’m a DSLR shooter and will be for the forseeable future, but there is no denying that Mirrorless will enherit the cameramarked because it can deliver speed and features outside the realm of possibilities for the DSLR.

Click to expand...

And, you fail to leave out a few "minor" issues that are a matter of considerable product development:

• When the EVF for fast moving subjects is at least as good as an OVF
• When the AF for fast moving objects is at least as good as the AF in the D5
• When the battery life is decent enough for the high volume action shooter

And, it appears that Nikon's current mirrorless options are limited in fps by their ability to process and offload the images, not by their ability to capture them since you see that the higher MP sensor goes slower and they haven't really extended the fps into any new territory. So, apparently that issue needs to be solved too before they can go faster.

I'm not saying they won't eventually get there, but they aren't there now and it's a matter of challenging product development to get there.

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

D6 will be the last of the Pro DSLRs it will enter an extended product cycle never to be updated and kept on life support until they don't sell anymore. Rather like the F6.

Wahrsager said:

NatureFiles said:

I'm interested to hear some of your thoughts on when you think Nikon will unveil it's next flagship camera? I work with a D4 on a daily basis and am starting to crave a low light monster with just a little more resolution. I wonder if Nikon will address the low ISO dynamic range issues that seems to have plagued the D5?

Click to expand...

I don't think it's "an issue." It was a design decision.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't feel my D5 is "plagued" by anything.

I

jfriend00 said:

DerKeyser said:

BUT: From a business perspective: If nikon really wants the mirrorless marked, they NEED the pro marked to start using a Nikon mirrorless instead of going to Sony, because wether you will admit it not, the commercial value of that towards getting all us sheeps bying Z cameras is INVALUABLE.

So a wise business decision would be to deliver a KILLER Zx PRO body with ample battery and sweep the floor with Sony’s A9. There is no business perspective in delivering another dinosaur and giving Sony another couple of years to win the pro’s over.

No matter how dedicated a DSLR user you are, I think we can all agree that a proper featured and excellent focusing mirrorless for sports shooting is by any count superior to a DSLR

If not, here’s some of the reasons:

Continious AF - even while the shot is taken
No EVF blackout while taking a shot
Quiet shooting - even at 20+ frames pr. Second
Way higher framerate than will ever be possible on DSLR due to moving mechanics
Focuspeaking while shooting
For the Z series: A mount with the option of even faster apeture Tele’s

I’m a DSLR shooter and will be for the forseeable future, but there is no denying that Mirrorless will enherit the cameramarked because it can deliver speed and features outside the realm of possibilities for the DSLR.

Click to expand...

And, you fail to leave out a few "minor" issues that are a matter of considerable product development:

• When the EVF for fast moving subjects is at least as good as an OVF
• When the AF for fast moving objects is at least as good as the AF in the D5
• When the battery life is decent enough for the high volume action shooter

And, it appears that Nikon's current mirrorless options are limited in fps by their ability to process and offload the images, not by their ability to capture them since you see that the higher MP sensor goes slower and they haven't really extended the fps into any new territory. So, apparently that issue needs to be solved too before they can go faster.

I'm not saying they won't eventually get there, but they aren't there now and it's a matter of challenging product development to get there.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, they are not there today with current available tech. But I suspect they are pretty close in the lab - as is Sony. Btw. Battery is not an issue in the PRO Zx model. They will just make the house bigger with space for a lot more battery and solve the remaining ergonomic problems the PRO’s would complain about. There is no rule saying the PRO model should pursue the small form factor of Z6/7 as Sony does in their product line.

So if you look at this from a pure business perspective there’s no denying that my suggested course of action is something that takes Nikon alot further away from a potential business disaster (not making enough ground with Z series and loose the marked to Sony). If Nikon fails to keep the pro’s - which I fear will happen with the Sony A9ii - then Nikon Could be in a world of pain with Z series not capturing enough market share once Canon shows its hands.

olivegarden said:

Nikon is moving to Mirrorless full steam ahead.

The days of flapping mirror is gone.

Click to expand...

D6 will certainly come and I don’t think it will be mirror less. I think it will be a 24 MP monster with 20fps and a new sensor. I don’t foresee many changes in ISO range and SS but IQ is bound to improve with new sensor. You may see that new top LCD (of Z series) and Pricing would probably be around $6500 mark.

September 2019 we should see a D6 announcement along with pro ML. Japan Olympics are coming