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Look at a REAL 828 shot TAKEN PROPERLY

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I didn’t have this problem when I shot with the EOS 1Ds hand held using non-IS lenses.

Greg
Matthew Cromer said:
Matthew Cromer said:
Oh god Matthew, again it was a joke, but the idea of constantly
using a tripod to get fairly acceptable image quality is pretty
ridiculous, what was disturbing with the two other pictures were
the noise and very poor detail due to aggressive NR, it certainly
didn't look like an 8mp output.
Click to expand...
You aren't likely to get much that looks like "8 MP output" without
using a tripod. You think the shots showed overly aggressive NR
but I suspect simple blurring. You must use good technique to use
5MP well, you must use better technique to use 8MP well.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
 
Yes the camera is still preproduction but the picture released is probably what you would expect. If you compare the F828 samples with the 300D taken by Phil you can see the difference and I dont mean macro modes but shots taken at a given location or object.
moebius67 said:
Dmitriy Belenko said:
Sony could have done better than this. Check out a sample from 300D
for example.

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital/downloads/fruits.jpg

Or from 10D:

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/EOS10D/downloads/portrait1.jpg

Sorry, but it looks like Sony is letting their fans down bigtime.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that it is only a pre-production camera,
when the 828 will be in the final version,
you will see more real samples, and better I hope.
Click to expand...
 
It's clear that the person who took these pictures is NOT an accomplished photographer.

It's absurd that people are putting great faith into reading the tea leaves on snapshots. What someone else can attain using proper technique with the cameras is of very little bearing.

We need to wait for more properly-taken test shots, like the yarn shot.
--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
Ogilvy said:
Actually zang, my comment was really more on the idea that to get
an acceptableshot from this camera one needs a tripod, I don't
think that's so, adequate shutter speed and good handholding should
be able to get a good shot without the need for a tripod. Again the
snapshots were pretty bad but the yarn shot was ok, maybe it fares
better indoors.
Click to expand...
So you are now claiming that a person can't take a bad shot with any camera, even the best?

ROFLMAO.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
Ogilvy said:
Plus this whole tripod yarn ( hehe, pun ) sounds like an excuse for
the two shots, ask yourself this, of the thousands of snapshots
Sony has in their database, why show these two? Maybe it was the
best? If you were Sony wouldn't you put up the best? And if that's
the case, the 828 is not looking good. The yarn shots looked better
though.
Click to expand...
The fact that folks who have used the camera (such as Phil) were impressed, and that the yarn shot is pretty impressive means the camera is capable of good shots.

The two snapshots were technically and artistically bad. I suspect the person who selected them was not a well-trained photographer but rather just an enthusiast who "liked" the shots because of "pretty colors" and "cool ducks".

There will be many more samples coming and we'll see soon if this camera sucks (such as MAC insists) or is a worthy successor to the 717, as I believe.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
You obviously own a D-SLR already, so maybe you're too used to the silky smooth images from one.

I have to admit myself that I was totally unaware of the F707's noise levels until I compred them to Phil's 10D samples (after the 300D's announcement sparked such debates on all forums).

The samples are never gonna be the best indication of how good the camera will be (key words are "will be" because unlike the 300D and the D-SLR in your hands, the F828 isn't out yet).

Let's all wait till someone like Phil has his hands on an actual production model before we all start making judgements - and in my case, to resist the siren call of the 300D!! ;-D
xichlo156054 said:
xichlo wrote:
Do you expect to tell you that F828 is so great?
Click to expand...
--



Keep On Snappin'! :-)
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee3
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee2
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee
 
Matt,

You worry too much about defending a sony that hasnt even been released to the general public yet. Use your vast knowlege to help others with what they already have in hand. Who cares if someone posts a lousy photo using a Sony. They can do that with any camera just like they can post a good one. It aint the camera buddy, its the shooter.

You're gonna grow old doing this. Just shoot a lot, enjoy the shots, and focus on the photos. Enjoy!

Harris
Matthew Cromer said:
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/DSC/DSC-F828/feat1.html#ccd

The other two pictures are poor snapshots. Looking at them and
trying to judge detail, color edges, etc. is a bit of a fool's
errand since they were not taken properly to show the ultimate
quality of the camera system.

The yarn shot is much better, taken from a tripod, and really shows
the true potential here. Great pixel-level detail. The lens just
resolves the hell out of the detail. The technical problems with
this shot are a bit of shadow noise (in line with the 717 or maybe
a bit less) and I am also seeing just a bit of purple CA in the
corners of the basket, and this will bear watching in Phil's test
shots to see how prevalent of a problem this is.

Yes, it has a lot more noise than the 10D. But the resolution is
excellent, the colors look very very true to life, and so far
(based on this one shot) I am very interested in the camera. I do
want to see how many of the images show CA in the corners when we
have a lens with the final coatings, but otherwise I am ready to
roll with this camera.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
 
photographer. Here is a link to a pro that shot stuff with the 5700. We at NTF know what a dog that camera is, as we have been told so so many times. But looks like this guy gets some results, and doesnt complain about poor focus, slow this, etc. As I have said before it isnt the camera ( 828, 5700, etc) but the shooter.

http://www.daveblackphotography.com/workshop/coolpix-03-09.htm

Of course, there are those who will try hard and bash this guys work. I imagine most of us would love to have a bit of his talent. I like what he's done.

Harris

Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
 
That's the simple rule that all people in photography know "the brain behind the camera that matter".

But in STF we like or we love to discuss about the weakess and the strengh of each cameras. It's not to blame the our existing cameras or to blame our ability.

We love to discuss because we all want to know all nuts and bolts about Sony cameras. Even we don't own it. But at least , as the Sony user, like myself, I can help my 2 team mates to buy 2 V1 over Canon G5, help my grandmother to buy her first digital camera Sony V1 over Sony F717, help another guy buy his P10.

All my suggestion based on what we discuss in STF. So discussion in STF even about Canon 300D, it's not to buy one or to dump my current F717, it's all because we are about Sony cameras and other competition.

I want to know all about them. The better you understand your limitation of your cameras the better photos you take.

Regards,

--------------------------------------
http://www.xichlo.com
http://www.cybershotclub.com
 
Hi,
I am cool here, but someone seems not as cool as me.
I never own any DSLR.

But I hated the fact that everytime someone say something about the noise of F828 or F7x7, then there are someone jumped in and said buy DSLR. Why DSLR? I love my Sony F717 but I saw noise, so I wish, I hope, I demand the next generation of Sony F828 has less noise. Is it wrong about that. Then here you are, "BUY DSLR" throw into my face.
Who cares about DSLR? I am talking about F828 here. I like Sony.

I understand the sample is just the pre-production, so I hope the real one will provide better noise control. Otherwise, I will stick with my F717.
Tigadee said:
I have to admit myself that I was totally unaware of the F707's
noise levels until I compred them to Phil's 10D samples (after the
300D's announcement sparked such debates on all forums).

The samples are never gonna be the best indication of how good the
camera will be (key words are "will be" because unlike the 300D and
the D-SLR in your hands, the F828 isn't out yet).

Let's all wait till someone like Phil has his hands on an actual
production model before we all start making judgements - and in my
case, to resist the siren call of the 300D!! ;-D
Tigadee said:
xichlo wrote:
Do you expect to tell you that F828 is so great?
Click to expand...
--



Keep On Snappin'! :-)
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee3
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee2
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee
Click to expand...
--
--------------------------------------
http://www.xichlo.com
http://www.cybershotclub.com
 
Matthew Cromer said:
Ogilvy said:
Actually zang, my comment was really more on the idea that to get
an acceptableshot from this camera one needs a tripod, I don't
think that's so, adequate shutter speed and good handholding should
be able to get a good shot without the need for a tripod. Again the
snapshots were pretty bad but the yarn shot was ok, maybe it fares
better indoors.
Click to expand...
So you are now claiming that a person can't take a bad shot with
any camera, even the best?

ROFLMAO.
Click to expand...
Are you claiming that unless you have a tripod a person can't take a good shot? Your certainly rolling on the floor on this one : )
Matthew Cromer said:
--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
 
Matthew Cromer said:
The fact that folks who have used the camera (such as Phil) were
impressed,
Click to expand...
Really? Phils review has come out now has it?

and that the yarn shot is pretty impressive means the
Matthew Cromer said:
camera is capable of good shots.
Click to expand...
I didn't say it was impressive, I just said it didn't suck as much as the other two.
Matthew Cromer said:
The two snapshots were technically and artistically bad.
Click to expand...
Forget artistic, the shot was blurry because of poor sensor performance, had high noise,
poor dynamic range.
I suspect
Matthew Cromer said:
the person who selected them was not a well-trained photographer
but rather just an enthusiast who "liked" the shots because of
"pretty colors" and "cool ducks".
Click to expand...
Everyone on STF hates the shots, why do you think he would like them?
Matthew Cromer said:
There will be many more samples coming and we'll see soon if this
camera sucks (such as MAC insists) or is a worthy successor to the
717, as I believe.
Click to expand...
Yes, more yarn to photograph : )
Matthew Cromer said:
--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
 
you will at 100%, maybe not long ones but there's a distinct difference between motion blur shots, oof shots and soft, lacking detail shots, and believe me that ain't motion blur. that soft lacking detail shots. Are you telling me Sony posted two misfocused shots on their website?! Gimme a break.
Matthew Cromer said:
Ogilvy said:
That wasn't motion blur, that was plain blur, I didn't see any
streaks with the highlights, it's just a muddy image.
Matthew Cromer wrote:
Click to expand...
You don't always see streaks with camera shake, and you certainly
don't see them with a misfocused shot.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
 
What does this have to do with my post? I think what is ridiculous is your comment that you need a tripod to get the benefits from an 8mp sensor. I said nothing about the crummy yarn picture that you like so much, just that you don’t need a tripod to get the benefits of high resolution cameras.

Greg
Matthew Cromer said:
It's clear that the person who took these pictures is NOT an
accomplished photographer.

It's absurd that people are putting great faith into reading the
tea leaves on snapshots. What someone else can attain using proper
technique with the cameras is of very little bearing.

We need to wait for more properly-taken test shots, like the yarn
shot.
--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
 
he shoots the olympics with a Coolpix 5700? Come on!! The shots he made with the coolpix can be made with any other camera, and probably by any "non-newbie" photographer. It's not the photographer that counts, with a coolpix, it's such a nonsense...

Would he be able to shoot the olympics without his Nikon pro SLRs and expensive optics? look at his old photos from the eighties... it's not the same league, obviously. Not the same gear, as we all know. Optics have evolved, too. He sure is a great photographer and I'd like to be in his skin but everyone can shoot landscapes with such an insignificant digicam like the 5700... and it's the same about the wing of an airplane above clouds...
The gear counts, in extreme and demanding situations.
Guillaume
http://www.at-sight.com
Sports & general event photography
 
yet if you are going to get the 828 for yourself? I do have the 10D, but my hb is using it mostly. It was too cumbersome for me to carry around with several lenses(I hike a lot). I am currently leaning towards the 828 and the S7000, but am awaiting the final reviews before deciding. I don't think I am going the dSLR route again, but you never know. Thanks for pointing out these pics from the 828. And I do indeed like the colors on the pics. They seem so much more true to life I think. Thanks!(btw: You do make fabulous pics!)
Matthew Cromer said:
Ogre said:
I just have to ask. I have done some knitting and crocheting in my
time and when you buy yarn it comes with a lot number because color
varies from lot to lot. How can one tell "the colors look very very
true to life" from this shot?
Click to expand...
You can tell that the colors have a richness and a subtlety never
before seen in a Sony digicam, and not really seen with any dSLR
either to my judgement.

4 colors really is better than 3 for zeroing in on the differences
between camera RGB response and the human eye RGB response.

I can't tell for sure what the original colors were, but they
certainly LOOK real in a way that other color renditions I have
seen do not. Sort of the difference between video camera color /
TV color, and colors in real life.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Olivia
http://www.pbase.com/soulsurfer
http://photos.yahoo.com/whispersfromspirit
 
..... I hardly ever use a tripod myself, and would like to see what a camera can do without one. I doubt though, that those test photo's were made with production camera's. They probably need to do some more tweaking before the real test photo's are being shown. If the release date is in November; they better hurry up with that though.
Matthew Cromer said:
stan said:
Honestly all joking aside, the other 2 shots were more true to
'real world' shooting.
Click to expand...
No, they were snapshots, not properly focused, bad compositions,
etc. and apparently handheld judging on a general lack of critical
sharpness.

You can never judge the quality of a camera lens without using a
tripod.
Matthew Cromer said:
After a decade of photography, I can say that i've never had a
tripod shot of yarn before.
Click to expand...
It's essential to use a tripod as well as proper aperture, focus,
etc. if you want to show what quality of image a camera is capable
of.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Olivia
http://www.pbase.com/soulsurfer
http://photos.yahoo.com/whispersfromspirit
 
Olivia T. BvG said:
yet if you are going to get the 828 for yourself? I do have the
10D, but my hb is using it mostly. It was too cumbersome for me to
carry around with several lenses(I hike a lot). I am currently
leaning towards the 828 and the S7000, but am awaiting the final
reviews before deciding. I don't think I am going the dSLR route
again, but you never know. Thanks for pointing out these pics from
the 828. And I do indeed like the colors on the pics. They seem so
much more true to life I think. Thanks!(btw: You do make fabulous
pics!)

Olivia
http://www.pbase.com/soulsurfer
http://photos.yahoo.com/whispersfromspirit
Click to expand...
Olivia,
For hiking I suggest you audition the A1. It's really light and compact.

In tried one today and AF speed is very good, and it also has built-in IS which should help a lot at 200mm.

It's only 5Mp and you should be aware that you will need to post-process more than you have been used to on a Sony, as very little is done in-camera on the Minolta's either in sharpeining or in NR.
I'd rather carry that if I was going hiking though!
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
 
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