Everybody -- Let's Talk TECHNIQUE!!

Nope, not at all. Got a URL to see stuff online?

I ask because I've been offered a spot as a freelance photographer for the local college yearbook, which gives me a reason to use the camera other than just personal snapshooting, and should let me hone my abilities on people pictures.

At any rate, the editors for the yearbook are interested in people doing the typical school things, but they'd prefer groups of people rather than individual people.

-marius
I'd be interested in what people have to say about catching candids
of people. Obviously long zoom so they don't notice you, but what
beyond that?
I tried a little of this at an anti-war protest in SF a while ago,
and didn't come up with anything I was really happy with. You're
right about the tele lenses, or at least positioning yourself where
people won't notice you ... but I'm not sure what else to do. How
you frame your shots is going to be important. What you do with
DOF depends on what you're trying to achieve.

Have you seen much of Salgado's work?
--
-marius
Visit the EOS-300D FAQ: http://www.marius.org/eos300dfaq.php
Visit the S602Z FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
 
Nope, not at all. Got a URL to see stuff online?
Here's a link, below, but I've got to warn you ... some of it is pretty difficult to look at. Along with old Ansel, Weston, Galen Rowell, Art Wolfe, and a few others ... I've got a Salgado book or two at home. He does EXCELLENT work, and when I did the anti-war protest, I was trying to emulate his excellent style. But Salgado focuses on the poor and destitute ( one of his books is called "Terra - Struggle of the Landless" ), and tells their story with his photos. So if these things make you uncomfortable, don't follow the link -- but if you want to see some AWESOME photographs, a lot of portraits that really give you a window into the soul of his subjects, click here:

http://www.terra.com.br/sebastiaosalgado/

The train station is the one I wanted my protest pictures to look like.
I ask because I've been offered a spot as a freelance photographer
for the local college yearbook, which gives me a reason to use the
camera other than just personal snapshooting, and should let me
hone my abilities on people pictures.
If you ever decide you want to get into making money with your camera, this will be an excellent notch on your resume.
At any rate, the editors for the yearbook are interested in people
doing the typical school things, but they'd prefer groups of people
rather than individual people.
I don't think this would be altogether that difficult. Actually, I think they'd be happy with a bunch of mediocre snapshots ... so when you spend a couple months practicing with your 300D and favorite lenses, then give them some excellent artistic work ... they'll be thrilled.
 
The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there
about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now
we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are
likely to be first-time SLR owners.
Right - but that´s just one of the TWO crowds you should expect here. Be careful - while defending yourself against the P&S- upgraders you might get run over from behind from another crowd of Film-SLR-upgraders - like me :-)

While the first will struggle their way thru what you call "technique" - people like me will be more interested in advantages and limitations of "going digital". I hope "we" SLR-oldies will be easier to handle for you ;-)

So here´s my first question :
I don´t know how to open the back of my DR to insert the film roll :-(

Ok Ok - just kidding. Looking forward to a new challenge - and the people here seem to be a great source of information and help

Klaus
 
And to my knowledge, all in the 300D forum are invited.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6115944

Joe is getting this going after taking an informal poll of those that would be interested.

I think it may be a little early yet in that we won't see a lot of Digital Rebel users for a while. But in time, this has potential to be one of the most creative challenge events on the forums because we may be getting some very good talent from ALL of the forums now that we're seeing a lot of former prosumer users include a dSLR in their repertoire. Since a lot of these folks were working with gear that some felt to be limited in DOF or in noise or other factors, the photographers were often driven to be very creative in thier work. Much of that is likely to be reflected in the challenges now.
I think this is a fantastic idea! It's a great way for people to
practice and learn -- kind of like going to school, but without the
tuition.

But I'm not the experienced person you need to drive it. I'm
getting ready to spend about a month or two on the road, soaking up
some more experience, living out of a tent in as many national
forests as I can get to. No Internet access when the nearest city
is 300 miles away.

Petteri is trying to launch something like this in the lens forum,
but I think his challenges are a bit creative for newbies. Petteri
is very skilled, but also very creative, thinks outside the box to
get fantastic images. But I'm of the opinion that you should
master normal portraits before you start with the wide-angle
portraits...

Maybe you're the one to get this rolling?
--

Ulysses
 
I'd be interested in what people have to say about catching candids
of people. Obviously long zoom so they don't notice you, but what
beyond that?

-marius
Ahh, you just touched on one of the areas the Sony DSC-F717 (and 707) does well - the funky lens/body swivel let you shoot while the camera is nowhere near your face.

For DR, it will be more of a challenge - one of the old film SLR tricks (for street photography) was to preset the exposure and focus, carry the camera with a neck strap, and hold the camera against your chest with on hand (so it looks like you are keeping the camera from banging around while you walk) such that you can trip the shutter with your finger. The 18-55 should be ideal for this.

People notice long lenses, so a short mirror lens or just moving closer using the above method, will often work better.
 
Thank you fore your great post in this forum.

I agree with you, controlling DOF is important. Very important. Thats why I've decided to move on to a DSLR from my F717. With the F717 it was almost impossible to take a decent portrait or a snapshot without having the whole world inside the DOF.

However, I decided to do a little white box project with tomatoes. I spent a entire morning taking this shot and I tried every combination of DOF and shutter speed that was available in my F717. My intention was clear, I wanted a shot where the middle tomatoe was sharp and the other two tomatoes were blurry. So naturally I chose a low F-stop. But after 100 bad shots it became clear to me that I was trying to much, that is, I was getting to much blur. I gradually increased the aparature and suddenly, at F4.5 (at a P&S camera), I found the blur I wanted. Not to much and not to little.

Sorry if I'm babbling, (It's getting late here in Sweden). I'm just very eager to recieve my new 300D any day now.

Here is the photo




[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/matekb
 
Newport (where I live) is a major tourist town for New England, Connecticut & NY in the summer. One thing I have found is that if you go actively looking for that great street shot people will tend to notice much more. I believe patience and a set spot away (not too far depending on the lens) from the flow of activity will get you shots of people being themselves. Find the good light and a fairly comfortable seat & let the world go by you. - m²
I'd be interested in what people have to say about catching candids
of people. Obviously long zoom so they don't notice you, but what
beyond that?

-marius
Ahh, you just touched on one of the areas the Sony DSC-F717 (and
707) does well - the funky lens/body swivel let you shoot while the
camera is nowhere near your face.

For DR, it will be more of a challenge - one of the old film SLR
tricks (for street photography) was to preset the exposure and
focus, carry the camera with a neck strap, and hold the camera
against your chest with on hand (so it looks like you are keeping
the camera from banging around while you walk) such that you can
trip the shutter with your finger. The 18-55 should be ideal for
this.

People notice long lenses, so a short mirror lens or just moving
closer using the above method, will often work better.
 
I take it you don't have a 300D, or at least not yet. I'd be very
interested to hear how you think it compares to your film SLR, and
to your P&S, when it arrives!
You betcha! I'll probably babble on for 3 pages here once I've received it ;)
By the way, can I get you to comment a little on how you use
selective DOF? Portraits? Landscapes? It can be difficult ( but
very effective! ) to do a selective focus landscape...
Sure, here's a couple of examples on what I mean. Those pics are scans from slides I took 5 years ago with my old film SLR, unftly they're not too sharp (mainly due to the scanner I used), but again, for me it's not about technical perfection, it's about the mood a picture sets with the viewer.

First a portrait (DOF being very important here to separate the object from the background):



Second a more landscap-ish picture. I tried to get the waves blur into the background to make them a bit more threatening (because you can't really see what's coming on):



Again kind of a landscape thing with just a little DOF to the front to add to the overall atmosphere:



I would've never been able to transport the mood in these pics with a P&S and I'm sooooo much looking forward to finally be able to do all that great wonderful creative stuff again.. can't wait, can't wait...
 
All of us approach the same set of problems from a different angle
... so what are you trying to do, and what gets it done for you?
How do you get the sharpest, most contrasty, widest/narrowest DOF,
lowest noise, best B/W conversions, and so on? What's important
for a good print, and how do you achieve it?
Hi Forrest. Thanks for inviting me to participate in this thread. Some great stuff here already.

For those who don't know, I am not currently using a dSLR camera, but I will describe the techniques I use which often apply directly to using any camera, including a dSLR. My primary "serious photography" focus is landscape photography with some wildlife photography thrown in, often environmental portraits.

I'd have to say that, for me, technique is a baseline approach to how I take serious photographs that I use to make sure I get the best possible results when making large prints. There is a second part called "seeing the image" which I feel falls outside the rubrick of "Technique" that I find even more important, but it has to build on solid technique or the results won't be high-quality.

Elements of a landscape image that rely on technique that are important to me for the final results:

1) Critical Sharpness
2) Sufficient DOF
3) Low noise
4) Rich Dynamic Range
5) Proper Shutter Speed

1) Critical Sharpness. In order to achieve critical sharpness in the image I use a tripod and remote release. Every time. And I make sure the tripod is fixed and any vibrations from my fiddling with the camera settings are finished before firing the shutter.

2) Sufficient DOF. I do this by using a small aperture on my landscape shots.

3) Low noise. On a digicam like the Sony 717, reducing noise is much more important than on a dSLR. To minimize noise, I make sure the exposure histogram curve is as far to the right as possible without clipping or making the colors look completely fake. I also use Neat Image (with the proper settings) to eliminate the noise that does appear.

4) Rich dynamic range is (often) achieved by taking multiple exposures of the same scene at different shutter speeds. One exposure is aimed at a very nice highlight exposure, and the other is aimed at perfecting the exposure for the midtones or darker areas. On occasion I will aim for 3 shots, but i don't tend to do this much. I later combine the exposures in photoshop using layer masks. Even if I don't do multiples I tend to burn and dodge in photoshop, always using adjustment layers with active masks where I want the burn / dodge to take place.

5. Proper Shutter Speed. Sometimes you need a fast shutter speed to freeze time, other times you need to extend time with a slow shutter. I use aperture and ND filters to control this, and (very very rarely) boosting ISO.

These items are all in the back of my mind, but what I really think about more is the composition. I look at it (on the live LCD panel) and tweak it exactly as I need to and fire the shutter, thinking about the next exposure or composition.

Contrast I handle after the fact, using adjustment layers and curves in Photoshop.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
Here's one more, taken in '90 in an old East Germany basement, very grainy (but I like that in B&W ;)) and for me this shot wouldn't have been possible without controlling DOF

 
I tried this approach with my S40 in the summer, with some decent results:


For DR, it will be more of a challenge - one of the old film SLR
tricks (for street photography) was to preset the exposure and
focus, carry the camera with a neck strap, and hold the camera
against your chest with on hand (so it looks like you are keeping
the camera from banging around while you walk) such that you can
trip the shutter with your finger. The 18-55 should be ideal for
this.

People notice long lenses, so a short mirror lens or just moving
closer using the above method, will often work better.
 
So Klaus - how about that instant histogram review? - m²
The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there
about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now
we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are
likely to be first-time SLR owners.
Right - but that´s just one of the TWO crowds you should expect
here. Be careful - while defending yourself against the P&S-
upgraders you might get run over from behind from another crowd of
Film-SLR-upgraders - like me :-)

While the first will struggle their way thru what you call
"technique" - people like me will be more interested in advantages
and limitations of "going digital". I hope "we" SLR-oldies will be
easier to handle for you ;-)

So here´s my first question :
I don´t know how to open the back of my DR to insert the film roll :-(

Ok Ok - just kidding. Looking forward to a new challenge - and the
people here seem to be a great source of information and help

Klaus
 
Actually an easy one, but it helps a lot.

I usually try to have subjects in motion move into the picture and not out of it. Also when I shoot stationary subjects that are usually related to motion (bicycle, car, ...) I try giving them open space in the picture that they can "move into". This makes those shots feel more natural to me.

Of course where there's rules, there's exceptions..

Example for a subject in motion:

 
Wow! That photo with the train rail is amazing. I never would have thought about controlling DOF in a landscape picture. Great!

Where did you focus to get this effect?

Here's another photo. In this shot the F717 actually managed to get some DOF, but can you imagine how much better the photo (and DOF) would have been if it was taken with the 300D!



Mattias


[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/matekb
 
Just had to say that it was brilliant of you, Forrest, to start this thread! I am so tired of reading about people comparing 300D to 10D or watching peoples "first shots" (wich by the way most often is not very good).

Thank you for this very interesting thread. And thanks to all persons who have posted very interesting posts and amazing photos.

Mattias

http://www.pbase.com/matekb
 
So Klaus - how about that instant histogram review? - m²
Hmm,

i have to admit that I don´t even GOT my DR because I´m in Germany - and you know the only thing slower than economy in Germany is delivery in Germany ;-)

In theory I know about histograms - but I will find out how to use that in real life. BTW - shouldn´t that be called "histo-ounce" in the US ? ;-)

Klaus
 
I try my best to take the picture properly with the camera, so that I have to do little or no post processing. It's all too easy to get lazy while taking pictures with a digital camera if you get into the habit of fixing your mistakes in Photoshop. Unfortunately "photoshopping" an image will not give you the same results you could achieve if you had taken the shot correctly in the first place. You could also say that one of the benefits to taking digital pictures is negated if you do a lot of post processing, since you become the "developer" of your own film! If you're going to spend a lot of time on the computer modifying your work then you might as well go back to film and just wait for your pictures to be developed...

Digital sensors (CCD and CMOS) act like slide film, and therefore are very unforgiving if your technique is bad. It's better to under expose an image than to over expose since under exposure will at least give you more color saturation (exactly like shooting slides). So it's a good idea to bracket your shots (just about every digital camera, and some film cameras, offer auto bracketting) when you are in difficult lighting situations. You can always delete the shots that don't look good, and odds are you'll have at least one picture that looks good to you without having to resort to an image editor...

Since shooting digital is so similar to shooting slides any tecnique that is geared toward slide film will work for digital.
 
I'd be interested in what people have to say about catching candids
of people. Obviously long zoom so they don't notice you, but what
beyond that?
Long zooms absolutely do not work for candid photography. You'll get weird voyeur-like pictures, and most of the time somebody will get in the way and block your line of sight anyway.

Most famous street photogs use lenses between 28 and 90 mm or so. Cartier-Bresson used almost exclusively a 50.

The trick is to blend in and be ignored, not hide and try not to be seen. If you look like you know what you're doing, those who don't want their picture taken will get out of the way, those who do, will mug for the shot and go away once you've taken a snap, like this joker...



...and the rest will just ignore you.









More on the topic here: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/data/Photography_lessons/Composition/Lesson_3/_Street_photography.html ]

Petteri
--




Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]
 
Here's another photo. In this shot the F717 actually managed to get
some DOF, but can you imagine how much better the photo (and DOF)
would have been if it was taken with the 300D!

http://www.pbase.com/image/19792286/original.jpg
Good shot, thanks for posting!

Sometimes a tad of blur in the background is better than the whole background being totally blurred.. I guess it really depends on the situation.. and I don't have any rules.. I do that by my guts and let my mood decide
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top