Can someone please test a function for me on the X-T20 and X-T2?

baobob said:

Doug Pardee said:

On half-press in AF-C, the iris immediately stops down to the shooting aperture and autofocus is performed at shooting aperture.

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Is it the same with DSLRs and optical PDAF system?

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Helen said:

If they are using AF, all three cameras behave more like what I described for the X-T100 - that is, they stop themselves down dynamically if they are pointed at bright light. Upon half-pressing to activate AF, they briefly OPEN UP to their widest aperture to do that - at that point, you could say it's the opposite to what happens in manual focus!

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Advent1sam said:

Helen,

With my x-t100 in MF and Full manual control, I set f10, auto iso, max 3200, and adjusted the shutter to 1/10and the screen is completely white, as I increase the shutter it gets darker then the iso increases which I can see as I half press. If I click the magnifying I can focus on the whereabouts I want, although I would be interested to know if I can change the position of the magnifier ? Then half press and bingo stopped down view with focus where I wanted, go, what am I missing?

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Advent1sam said:

Helen said:

quintana said:

Wow, I am incredibly grateful that you tested this so thoroughly. So the X-T20 and X-T2 behave exactly how I would like them to.

And this is the only way that makes sense to me. I really wonder if Fuji changed that for the X-T100 because of technical reasons (cheaper, less capable technology) or because they want more demanding users to buy their more expensive cameras.

So I guess I will buy an X-T2 now. The X-T20 would still be enough for my needs but the offer for the X-T2 is quite good and the better grip and bigger EVF are tempting.

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There are a lot of nice, fine settings on the X-T2 that you will hopefully enjoy and the EVF is really nice -whilst either the X-T2 or X-T20 offer more configuration options than the X-T100, there are a number of tiny aspects of the modern generation that the X-T20 does not have but the X-T2 does (strangely, the X-E3 also has them, whereas you might expect it to lack them in the same way as the X-T20 since it is sized and priced similarly) - really, all you lose in the X-T2 is the touchscreen and a built-in flash, but the focus joystick is so handy that I don't miss the touchscreen. Ensure you get the EF-X8 flash with the camera, as they are included when new! I do like the overall feel of the X-T2 a lot, actually.

I do hope that you find the camera always acts the way you want it to in the discussed situation, since there do seem to be lots of potential variables, and this is not an issue that has hitherto bothered me, so I never looked into it before. Now I have looked at it, it does appear to be that the X-T100 is consistently different in how it behaves in manual focus, when compared to the X-T2 and X-T20.

I grabbed my old X-A1 which is still kicking around, expecting it to behave like the X-T100 due to the Bayer pattern sensor (though it's the 16MP one of course) but to my surprise in that manual focus test, it behaved like the current X-Trans models, keeping the aperture wide open for viewing purposes in manual focus.

I think the difference with the X-T100 is most likely a purely technical thing. I've already noticed that the sensor is unusual for a 24MP (hence presumably recent) model, having a really slow scan time (revealed when using electronic shutter) - I imagine the X-A5 and maybe X-A3 perhaps use the same and a similar one respectively but don't own either of those, so can't confirm that. Perhaps this aspect of its design may mean that it needs to rely on the aperture mechanism more than some other sensors to prevent it being flooded by bright light and bleaching out the live view image.

This really does vary amongst mirrorless cameras. For example, I remember certain 16MP Olympus models will swap from not needing to actively close down the aperture during live view to then doing so, the longer they have been running for (so maybe a sensor temperature thing in that case alters the behaviour).

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Helen said:

Advent1sam said:

Helen,

With my x-t100 in MF and Full manual control, I set f10, auto iso, max 3200, and adjusted the shutter to 1/10and the screen is completely white, as I increase the shutter it gets darker then the iso increases which I can see as I half press. If I click the magnifying I can focus on the whereabouts I want, although I would be interested to know if I can change the position of the magnifier ? Then half press and bingo stopped down view with focus where I wanted, go, what am I missing?

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Yes, I see what you mean in that scenario. Whilst I was looking into that, and fiddling with a particular setting, I see that in the interim, several posters have referred to the very setting I was fiddling with! I assume that in the scenario above, for the X-T100 you have Preview Exp. in Manual Mode (Setup Menu Tab 1, one of the entries under the Screen Set-Up section) set to On?

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That causes the screen to truly reflect the white-out of those settings under strong light said:

Helen said:

Helen said:

quintana, post: 61300414, member: 56053"]
Wow, I am incredibly grateful that you tested this so thoroughly. So the X-T20 and X-T2 behave exactly how I would like them to.

And this is the only way that makes sense to me. I really wonder if Fuji changed that for the X-T100 because of technical reasons (cheaper, less capable technology) or because they want more demanding users to buy their more expensive cameras.

So I guess I will buy an X-T2 now. The X-T20 would still be enough for my needs but the offer for the X-T2 is quite good and the better grip and bigger EVF are tempting.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of nice, fine settings on the X-T2 that you will hopefully enjoy and the EVF is really nice -whilst either the X-T2 or X-T20 offer more configuration options than the X-T100, there are a number of tiny aspects of the modern generation that the X-T20 does not have but the X-T2 does (strangely, the X-E3 also has them, whereas you might expect it to lack them in the same way as the X-T20 since it is sized and priced similarly) - really, all you lose in the X-T2 is the touchscreen and a built-in flash, but the focus joystick is so handy that I don't miss the touchscreen. Ensure you get the EF-X8 flash with the camera, as they are included when new! I do like the overall feel of the X-T2 a lot, actually.

I do hope that you find the camera always acts the way you want it to in the discussed situation, since there do seem to be lots of potential variables, and this is not an issue that has hitherto bothered me, so I never looked into it before. Now I have looked at it, it does appear to be that the X-T100 is consistently different in how it behaves in manual focus, when compared to the X-T2 and X-T20.

I grabbed my old X-A1 which is still kicking around, expecting it to behave like the X-T100 due to the Bayer pattern sensor (though it's the 16MP one of course) but to my surprise in that manual focus test, it behaved like the current X-Trans models, keeping the aperture wide open for viewing purposes in manual focus.

I think the difference with the X-T100 is most likely a purely technical thing. I've already noticed that the sensor is unusual for a 24MP (hence presumably recent) model, having a really slow scan time (revealed when using electronic shutter) - I imagine the X-A5 and maybe X-A3 perhaps use the same and a similar one respectively but don't own either of those, so can't confirm that. Perhaps this aspect of its design may mean that it needs to rely on the aperture mechanism more than some other sensors to prevent it being flooded by bright light and bleaching out the live view image.

This really does vary amongst mirrorless cameras. For example, I remember certain 16MP Olympus models will swap from not needing to actively close down the aperture during live view to then doing so, the longer they have been running for (so maybe a sensor temperature thing in that case alters the behaviour).

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Vic Chapman said:

I expect it's been answered (but not in the first few). In the menus find "preview WB/Exposure in manual mode" turn it off.

Same on all Fujis. should have been off by default on a new camera.

Vic

--
The sky is full of holes that let the rain get in, the holes are very small - that's why the rain is thin.
Spike Milligan. Writer, comedian, poet, Goon. 1918 - 2002

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Helen said:

X-T20, WB/Exp preview in manual set to ON - aperture stays at f5.6, live view appropriately whited-out.

X-T100, Exp preview in manual set to ON - the same as the X-T20.

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Helen said:

X-T100 with Exp preview in manual set ON - the aperture stops down a little (unexpected!) - presumably it's using this to lessen the amount of overexposure shown in live view to an appropriate amount.

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quintana said:

Helen said:

X-T20, WB/Exp preview in manual set to ON - aperture stays at f5.6, live view appropriately whited-out.

X-T100, Exp preview in manual set to ON - the same as the X-T20.

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Ah, this is driving me nuts ;-) I tested it again because this is not what I experienced when I last tested it. And now it gets really odd. When I turn on the camera with the aperture set to f/2.8 (I only have an 27/2.8 at the moment) and WB/exp preview ON - guess what happens? The aperture stays open! Hooray, exactly what I want! At least so I thought because after that I closed the aperture all the way down and it also closes in the lens. So far so good but now it comes: I set it to f/2.8 again and it stays closed a little. f/4 or f/5.6 I would guess. And the only way to get it to f/2.8 again is to turn off the camera and turn it back on. Wow, this is really annoying... Maybe it's even a bug and Fuji will fix it with a firmware update - after I've spend my money on an X-T2 of course!

quintana said:

X-T100 with Exp preview in manual set ON - the aperture stops down a little (unexpected!) - presumably it's using this to lessen the amount of overexposure shown in live view to an appropriate amount.

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Just like I wrote above. But it can't only depend on the light that comes through the lens because the aperture stays closed a little even when I go from daylight outside to a dim corner in my flat. And when I use a flashlight in front of the lens the aperture doesn't move at all. It stays at f/4 to f/5.6 (approximately).

Edit: It really seems to be connected to the chosen shutter speed. At very long exposures (screen goes white) I can get the aperture to physically open wide and on the other hand I can not get it to close completely when I set the aperture to f/16.

On the other hand when I set the exposure correctly for the scene I can not get the aperture to open more than to f/4 or f/5.6 (presumably the latter).

I'll order the X-T2, because it gives me the behaviour that I want even at aperture priority (is that correct, Helen?) and not with the detour through manual mode.

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Vic Chapman said:

Thanks for checking that Helen.

Do you not consider this a fault with the camera? It must be very annoying for those who like to shoot manual, especially if using 3rd party lenses.

Vic

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quintana said:

After I initially wanted to order an X-T2 which I had a good offer for, I opted for a used X-T20 instead because it has essentially all the features of the X-T2 that I really need (YMMV of course) minus the better viewfinder. But I could have it for 500 Euros less and decided that this money is better spend on a nice lens.

Before making a short story long: The X-T20 behaves exactly like I would expect in manual focus mode and the only way that makes sense to me: the aperture stays wide open for narrow DOF and precise focusing. Plus it offers an incredible amount of more options and usability over the X-T100 with a similar size and weight and price (when I compare a used X-T20 to a new X-T100) so I guess it's a better choice for me overall (again YMMV), except that it has X-Trans which will make the use of Xtransformer essential for me (hence the thread about Xtransformer that I opened two days ago).

Still I wouldn't wonder if Fuji released a firmware update for the X-T100 that will fix the faulty implementation of manual focusing. I really can not believe that they would deliberately cripple the lower priced camera in a way that absolutely doesn't make any sense at all (except there are really technical reasons for it which I find hard to believe). There still are more than enough advantages that the X-T20 has over the X-T100 that make the need for such a constraint unnecessary.

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quintana said:

After I initially wanted to order an X-T2 which I had a good offer for, I opted for a used X-T20 instead because it has essentially all the features of the X-T2 that I really need (YMMV of course) minus the better viewfinder. But I could have it for 500 Euros less and decided that this money is better spend on a nice lens.

Before making a short story long: The X-T20 behaves exactly like I would expect in manual focus mode and the only way that makes sense to me: the aperture stays wide open for narrow DOF and precise focusing. Plus it offers an incredible amount of more options and usability over the X-T100 with a similar size and weight and price (when I compare a used X-T20 to a new X-T100) so I guess it's a better choice for me overall (again YMMV), except that it has X-Trans which will make the use of Xtransformer essential for me (hence the thread about Xtransformer that I opened two days ago).

Still I wouldn't wonder if Fuji released a firmware update for the X-T100 that will fix the faulty implementation of manual focusing. I really can not believe that they would deliberately cripple the lower priced camera in a way that absolutely doesn't make any sense at all (except there are really technical reasons for it which I find hard to believe). There still are more than enough advantages that the X-T20 has over the X-T100 that make the need for such a constraint unnecessary.

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