Sony RX100 VI

You may be right, but I'm hoping that maybe Sony have some secret to making the 2.8 fully acceptable for available light (or lower light like indoor).
A secret to make it better in low light? I don't think so. The III, IV, and V have the best indoor/low light lens of the series, and that hasn't changed.
At present, I have the M1 and shoot mostly at 3200 ISO and get acceptable pictures. I prefer to not use my flash.
Well, the current sensor has been improved over the sensor in the first three models - but certainly not by a full stop.

We all have to understand that no camera does everything well, and the VI is going to do its best work outdoors.
The VI is not an improvement over the V in image quality therefore it's not worthy of being considered an ugraded RX100V IMO.
We don't have to consider it an upgrade. It's an alternative with different strengths and weaknesses.
Indeed
So everything would be OK if the name were different?
I could care less I am just disappointed ...

I am more interested in a RX1R III with a built in flash and EVF or RX med format my RX100V is perferctly capable of keeping me happy for what it is and I have the RX1R in the interim ... In the mean time I want my 135 1. GM, 24 1.4 GM and 200600GM then a A9R and A9II.
The only reply there is that we're all different. I'm not longing for and won't be buying any of those things - nor will I be buying the RX100VI - but that has no bearing on what others might want.

I've been shooting Sony for almost 18 years, and the great majority of Sony products produced over that period were not for me at all. A wild guess: I suppose I've bought maybe one Sony photo product for every 25 that have been offered. C'est la vie.

Your time will come, probably.
 
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Sure did, but thanks much for the alert that others may see. I will also watch for any price reductions over the next 30 days which my retailer will have to match. I'm not new at this.
 
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The used one that I liked was about $860, about $50 less than new. I always look at used, whether eBay, Amazon, B&H, etc. Don't need any lectures on that. It's just good shopping, like my choosing the V over the VI.
 
You may be right, but I'm hoping that maybe Sony have some secret to making the 2.8 fully acceptable for available light (or lower light like indoor).
A secret to make it better in low light? I don't think so. The III, IV, and V have the best indoor/low light lens of the series, and that hasn't changed.
At present, I have the M1 and shoot mostly at 3200 ISO and get acceptable pictures. I prefer to not use my flash.
Well, the current sensor has been improved over the sensor in the first three models - but certainly not by a full stop.

We all have to understand that no camera does everything well, and the VI is going to do its best work outdoors.
The VI is not an improvement over the V in image quality therefore it's not worthy of being considered an ugraded RX100V IMO.
We don't have to consider it an upgrade. It's an alternative with different strengths and weaknesses.
Indeed
So everything would be OK if the name were different?
I could care less I am just disappointed ...

I am more interested in a RX1R III with a built in flash and EVF or RX med format my RX100V is perferctly capable of keeping me happy for what it is and I have the RX1R in the interim ... In the mean time I want my 135 1. GM, 24 1.4 GM and 200600GM then a A9R and A9II.
The only reply there is that we're all different. I'm not longing for and won't be buying any of those things - nor will I be buying the RX100VI - but that has no bearing on what others might want.

I've been shooting Sony for almost 18 years, and the great majority of Sony products produced over that period were not for me at all. A wild guess: I suppose I've bought maybe one Sony photo product for every 25 or 30 that have been offered. C'est la vie.

Your time will come, probably.
I doubt it I am not as content as you are I don't think. I am content with my RX100V and my lenses but I will probably always buy the new high end FF's as they appear at least until the models do not offer enough improvements and then may skip a generation or two. We will get to a point where the laws of diminishing returns will occur and other attributes will be a priority rather than image quality.

To double the image quality of a 42MP sensor it requires 168MP according to Jim Kasson. Why on earth we would ever need more than 168MP is beyond me but I suspect other factors will be at play when we get to that point besides the resolution of our stills.

-Terry
 
The used one that I liked was about $860, about $50 less than new. I always look at used, whether eBay, Amazon, B&H, etc. Don't need any lectures on that. It's just good shopping, like my choosing the V over the VI.
 
I’m disappointed it doesn’t appear to have any way to attach a microphone. I would have liked to use this on my gimbal, but with an external microphone, like a Rode video mic.
what's wrong with this comparison?


Hot Shoe Missing on rx100. Put it back, make the small flash a small hot shoe flash, included in the box. Add a mic port and headphones port, NOW you have a midget movie machine for LIVE SOUND!!!

And, you can use a real flash.
 
--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
 
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will this end up having worse low-light performance than the RX100 V or Canon G7X Mark II?
Yes.
also... is there still a time limit on 4k video shooting?
Yes.
In other words, there's no point in upgrading from the V to the VI? :(

might as well save the $1200...

or if one really needs a big zoom, keep the V and buy a Nikon P900. (which I should have done when it was $498 at B&H a few months ago) :( Just needs a really large pocket.
Well it is an upgrade if you enjoy shooting 4K HLG HDR and don’t desire to grade your own videos. HLG provides you with ‘instant HDR’. I’ve shot quite a lot of it with the A7iii as well as the GH5.

I’m so impressed with HLG, that I now only shoot in HLG. Of course this requires you to have an HLG-capable TV to enjoy it.

In my case, I’d gladly sacrifice some low light capability for the additional reach provided by the new lens. YMMV.
 
The predecessor camera I'm reminded of is the Minolta A1, which I was happy to own about 14 years ago. The DPR review is still on-line:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagea1

It's interesting to compare these two cameras from almost 15 years apart:
  • Launch price, both $1200 (of course, in real terms, the RX100M6 is much cheaper)
  • sensor 2/3 5mp vs 1" 20 mp
  • 28-200 f/2.8-3.5 vs 24-200 f/2.8-4.5 equiv lens
  • 2.8 fps vs 24 fps
  • buffer, 3 frames vs 233 frames
  • focus points, 11 vs 315
  • tilting LCD, 1.8" 118,000 pixels vs 3" 921,600
  • weight, 639gm vs 301gm
 
For $1200 You can buy a Nikon D 5600 in addition to Nikon 16-80 mm f2.8-4 lens ( import version).

This is a light combo for travel, for sure it is bigger in size and weighs more than a Sony RX Camera but optically it is in a much higher league.
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that? The DPReview graph of aperture and focal length clearly suggests not (but maybe I am reading it wrong).

It's the orange line; aperture clearly rises almost immediately and almost reaches its lowest point at a little over 35mm. At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.

83770aea542441f488fdbbf66ab095c5.jpg.png
Here ya go Mark, directly from the Sony literature on the camera. The Sony blurb is a bit misleading as it states 'the maximum aperture stays at F4'. I originally interpreted this as it maintaining an F2.8, which is not the case. ;)

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh."
 
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There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that?
A mistake. It looks like Ken Ross removed that from his post while you were writing yours. Such a capability is in the 'highly unlikely' realm for a camera like that.
At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.
The graph you posted says it's about 1.3 stops smaller.
This is directly from the Sony website information on the camera. The catch phrase is 'maximum aperture', which I erroneously took as F2.8. But Sony says 'maximum aperture stays at F4'. To me that's just a bit misleading, but I did misinterpret their meaning.

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh.
 
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There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that?
A mistake. It looks like Ken Ross removed that from his post while you were writing yours. Such a capability is in the 'highly unlikely' realm for a camera like that.
At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.
The graph you posted says it's about 1.3 stops smaller.
Right - the equivalent f-stop at 70mm for the VI is f12, that for the V is less than f8, which is 1.3 stops.

Ken Ross's incorrect statement is still there, and the post has received likes. Hopefully not for that erroneous information - this is how "fake news" spreads! :)

Unfortunately, once someone comments on a post, you can't fix it (like mine).
There was nothing intentional done here. In reading the Sony blurb it stated that at 100mm it maintains its maximum aperture, but they then said F4. In reading this quickly, I saw the 'maintaining maximum aperture' and interpreted that as F2.8. My apologies, but I partially blame Sony for the less than stellar wording.
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that? The DPReview graph of aperture and focal length clearly suggests not (but maybe I am reading it wrong).

It's the orange line; aperture clearly rises almost immediately and almost reaches its lowest point at a little over 35mm. At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.

83770aea542441f488fdbbf66ab095c5.jpg.png
Here ya go Mark, directly from the Sony literature on the camera. I didn't even make it up. ;)

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh."
But you did make it up: you said, "the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad."

The truth is that the aperture falls from f/2.8 to f/4 by 100mm. In fact, up to 70mm, the RX100M6 lens is actually slower than the much cheaper ZS100.
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that? The DPReview graph of aperture and focal length clearly suggests not (but maybe I am reading it wrong).

It's the orange line; aperture clearly rises almost immediately and almost reaches its lowest point at a little over 35mm. At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.

83770aea542441f488fdbbf66ab095c5.jpg.png
Here ya go Mark, directly from the Sony literature on the camera. I didn't even make it up. ;)

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh."
But you did make it up: you said, "the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad."

The truth is that the aperture falls from f/2.8 to f/4 by 100mm. In fact, up to 70mm, the RX100M6 lens is actually slower than the much cheaper ZS100.
Yes, and when I realized I had misinterpreted Sony's blurb which I think can be misleading if you're reading quickly, it was too late to edit. I have since gone back and followed up with the correct info. So please, don't use the phrase "You did make it up", it was an honest mistake and unintentional.
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that? The DPReview graph of aperture and focal length clearly suggests not (but maybe I am reading it wrong).

It's the orange line; aperture clearly rises almost immediately and almost reaches its lowest point at a little over 35mm. At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.

83770aea542441f488fdbbf66ab095c5.jpg.png
Here ya go Mark, directly from the Sony literature on the camera. I didn't even make it up. ;)

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh."
This is what you said: "... the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm." [emphasis is mine]. That is just untrue, as the graph shows. The Sony quote does not contradict me or the graph - the widest aperture is F2.8 and it ramps up to narrower apertures quite quickly so it is already at (approximately) F3.5+ at 40mm. And F4 at 100mm is not its widest aperture. Am I missing something? the graph is clear, the Sony blurb is consistent with it, and your original statement is not.

That the lens is "only" F4 at 100mm is good, and only F4.5 at 200mm is nice. But the VI lens is far from uni-aperture
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that?
A mistake. It looks like Ken Ross removed that from his post while you were writing yours. Such a capability is in the 'highly unlikely' realm for a camera like that.
At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.
The graph you posted says it's about 1.3 stops smaller.
Right - the equivalent f-stop at 70mm for the VI is f12, that for the V is less than f8, which is 1.3 stops.

Ken Ross's incorrect statement is still there, and the post has received likes. Hopefully not for that erroneous information - this is how "fake news" spreads! :)

Unfortunately, once someone comments on a post, you can't fix it (like mine).
There was nothing intentional done here. In reading the Sony blurb it stated that at 100mm it maintains its maximum aperture, but they then said F4. In reading this quickly, I saw the 'maintaining maximum aperture' and interpreted that as F2.8. My apologies, but I partially blame Sony for the less than stellar wording.
Of course not intentional - and we appreciate the response. Sony is cagy about wording.
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that? The DPReview graph of aperture and focal length clearly suggests not (but maybe I am reading it wrong).

It's the orange line; aperture clearly rises almost immediately and almost reaches its lowest point at a little over 35mm. At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.

83770aea542441f488fdbbf66ab095c5.jpg.png
Here ya go Mark, directly from the Sony literature on the camera. I didn't even make it up. ;)

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh."
This is what you said: "... the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm." [emphasis is mine]. That is just untrue, as the graph shows. The Sony quote does not contradict me or the graph - the widest aperture is F2.8 and it ramps up to narrower apertures quite quickly so it is already at (approximately) F3.5+ at 40mm. And F4 at 100mm is not its widest aperture. Am I missing something? the graph is clear, the Sony blurb is consistent with it, and your original statement is not.

That the lens is "only" F4 at 100mm is good, and only F4.5 at 200mm is nice. But the VI lens is far from uni-aperture
Yes, I have gone back as best I could to a number of posts to add a post with the corrections. Unfortunately, because you lose editing functions on this site rather quickly, I was unable to amend my original post.

As I said in other corrected posts, I read Sony's statement of 'even at a focal length of 100mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4', as it maintains its maximum aperture period. It obviously does not as F4 is not the maximum aperture. So I was wrong, but I think Sony's choice of words was not the best. The use of 'maintains its maximum aperture' is a bit misleading. It doesn't 'maintain its maximum aperture', it simply stops down to F4 from F2.8. That's how I would have worded it.
 
There's obviously an advantage to 200mm vs. 100mm or 70mm when light is abundant, meaning this version can be a much better outdoor camera than the prior versions while being equally pocketable. I have no doubt about it finding a market despite the smaller apertures. And previous RX100 models will remain, of course, for people who prefer those.

But yes, the lens needs to be good wide open and throughout the entire range in order to fulfill users' expectations. If it isn't, it will be rather pointless
the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm. Not too bad.
Where is the information on that? The DPReview graph of aperture and focal length clearly suggests not (but maybe I am reading it wrong).

It's the orange line; aperture clearly rises almost immediately and almost reaches its lowest point at a little over 35mm. At 70mm, the largest reach of the V, the VI is about 4 stops smaller.

83770aea542441f488fdbbf66ab095c5.jpg.png
Here ya go Mark, directly from the Sony literature on the camera. I didn't even make it up. ;)

Large apertures, great range of expression

Small F-numbers throughout the zoom range make it easy to achieve fast shutter speeds and large amounts of bokeh. Even at a focal length of 100 mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4. This can reduce blurring in shots of fast-moving subjects, and it can also help portrait shots, where the subject will stand out against a high degree of background bokeh."
This is what you said: "... the camera stays at its widest aperture up to 100mm." [emphasis is mine]. That is just untrue, as the graph shows. The Sony quote does not contradict me or the graph - the widest aperture is F2.8 and it ramps up to narrower apertures quite quickly so it is already at (approximately) F3.5+ at 40mm. And F4 at 100mm is not its widest aperture. Am I missing something? the graph is clear, the Sony blurb is consistent with it, and your original statement is not.

That the lens is "only" F4 at 100mm is good, and only F4.5 at 200mm is nice. But the VI lens is far from uni-aperture
Yes, I have gone back as best I could to a number of posts to add a post with the corrections. Unfortunately, because you lose editing functions on this site rather quickly, I was unable to amend my original post.

As I said in other corrected posts, I read Sony's statement of 'even at a focal length of 100mm, the maximum aperture stays at F4', as it maintains its maximum aperture period. It obviously does not as F4 is not the maximum aperture. So I was wrong, but I think Sony's choice of words was not the best. The use of 'maintains its maximum aperture' is a bit misleading. It doesn't 'maintain its maximum aperture', it simply stops down to F4 from F2.8. That's how I would have worded it.
Yes, I just saw that above and tried to change my response, but could not because you had just replied! I was caught in the same restriction now twice.

Thanks. As I said above, Sony sometimes is cagey in its PR.
 

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