What is mirrorless?

What is mirrorless?


  • Total voters
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What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
There are a lot of misnomers in common use.

For example Chinese Chekers are neither Chinese nor checkers.

Arabic numbers are from India.

Fireflies are not flies.

Flying foxes are neither.

A starfish isn't.

Peanuts are not nuts.

Strawberries are not a berry...

and so on.

But we (well most) do understand what the word means.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
Exactly!
There are a lot of misnomers in common use.

For example Chinese Chekers are neither Chinese nor checkers.

Arabic numbers are from India.

Fireflies are not flies.

Flying foxes are neither.

A starfish isn't.

Peanuts are not nuts.

Strawberries are not a berry...

and so on.

But we (well most) do understand what the word means.
And the above highlights what so many contributors to this thread are doing wrong. A new class of camera arose by taking the DSLR and removing its OVF (and associated paraphernalia like its internal mirror), and optionally substituting an EVF for the OVF. It needed a name, and 'mirrorless' became the name, or part of the name that in full is MILC or DSLM. People then 'worked backwards' and tried to redefine cameras that never fitted this category as belonging to it, because they have no mirror. Mistake.

It's the same mistake as looking only at the word 'digital' in DSLR and deciding every digital camera belongs in that category, after all it is digital. Same mistake.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
Exactly!
There are a lot of misnomers in common use.

For example Chinese Chekers are neither Chinese nor checkers.

Arabic numbers are from India.

Fireflies are not flies.

Flying foxes are neither.

A starfish isn't.

Peanuts are not nuts.
Strawberries are not a berry...
And mirrorless cameras are not cameras... :-)
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
Exactly!
There are a lot of misnomers in common use.

For example Chinese Chekers are neither Chinese nor checkers.

Arabic numbers are from India.

Fireflies are not flies.

Flying foxes are neither.

A starfish isn't.

Peanuts are not nuts.

Strawberries are not a berry...

and so on.

But we (well most) do understand what the word means.
And the above highlights what so many contributors to this thread are doing wrong. A new class of camera arose by taking the DSLR and removing its OVF (and associated paraphernalia like its internal mirror), and optionally substituting an EVF for the OVF. It needed a name, and 'mirrorless' became the name, or part of the name that in full is MILC or DSLM. People then 'worked backwards' and tried to redefine cameras that never fitted this category as belonging to it, because they have no mirror. Mistake.

It's the same mistake as looking only at the word 'digital' in DSLR and deciding every digital camera belongs in that category, after all it is digital. Same mistake.
But that is not the case. A mirrorless camera is just a digital camera with interchengable lenses.

Not a DSLR with reflex viewfinder removed. If that would be the definition of mirrorless, only Pentax K01 would be a mirrorless camera.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
Yep. As far as I can tell it wasn't even an issue until very recently when a couple of people ran polls about mirrorless cameras and a few others decided to get pedantic and argumentative about the definitions.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand at all. Richard Butler made the editorial position of this website clear in a post above when he wrote, "When we use the term 'Mirrorless' we're using it as a more convenient contraction of Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera (MILC)." He also said the term was introduced at the time the micro four thirds system was announced, which was about 2008, so that has been its meaning here for about 10 years.

When I read the word mirrorless in an article or post here at DPReview, my assumption is that it refers to a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. What introduces confusion is when people apply the term mirrorless to cameras that do not use interchangeable lenses. There are other category names to use. Canon, for example, refers to their fixed-lens cameras with 1" or larger sensors as "large sensor compacts," and they, too, define mirrorless as having interchangeable lenses. Looking at their product line-up, Panasonic also appears to reserve the word mirrorless for cameras with interchangeable lenses.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
Yep. As far as I can tell it wasn't even an issue until very recently when a couple of people ran polls about mirrorless cameras and a few others decided to get pedantic and argumentative about the definitions.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand. It's common terminology used on DPR forums and by DPR editorial staff. It's more an issue of some folks being pedantic, being stubborn or just disliking mirror-less cameras in general.
Yep. As far as I can tell it wasn't even an issue until very recently when a couple of people ran polls about mirrorless cameras and a few others decided to get pedantic and argumentative about the definitions.
AFAICR, it has been discussed often before that little spat. I know at least that I’ve been aware of the nomenclature clash for years.

Of course the polls brought it to -recent - prominence...

Regards, Mike
 
All ILCs are niche cameras today. It's basically only smartphones that are mainstream cameras in today's camera market.
True. That's the way it was in the old days of film and the way it should be. I'm glad that the people less serious about photography are using cell phones.
I think that what is really amazing is how good and committed many phone photographers are

I have a colleague who teaches photography and nearly made it as pro. Her Instagram is 100% phone and just shows her daughters growing up. But they are great photos
Certainly for instagram a cellphone is more than good enough. I use my smartphone camera sometimes when it's quality is good enough for the intended purpose. I'm sure your colleague uses a dedicated camera for her serious work.
 
In the context of this thread "mirriorless" is a nomenclature of a certain class of ILC, not a specification or description.
NO NO NO ...

Those are "EVILS" (Eye-Viewfinder -- Interchangeable-Lens-Camera)

But I have heard there are also "MILF's", (and from what I have heard, obviously the BEST type of "camera" I'd like to get my "hands" on ... ... ... LOL)
 
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What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand at all. Richard Butler made the editorial position of this website clear in a post above when he wrote, "When we use the term 'Mirrorless' we're using it as a more convenient contraction of Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera (MILC)." He also said the term was introduced at the time the micro four thirds system was announced, which was about 2008, so that has been its meaning here for about 10 years.

When I read the word mirrorless in an article or post here at DPReview, my assumption is that it refers to a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. What introduces confusion is when people apply the term mirrorless to cameras that do not use interchangeable lenses. There are other category names to use. Canon, for example, refers to their fixed-lens cameras with 1" or larger sensors as "large sensor compacts," and they, too, define mirrorless as having interchangeable lenses. Looking at their product line-up, Panasonic also appears to reserve the word mirrorless for cameras with interchangeable lenses.
Yes - if we extend the term 'mirrorless' to any camera without a mirror, while it may be technically correct, it becomes completely meaningless.
 
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand at all. Richard Butler made the editorial position of this website clear in a post above when he wrote, "When we use the term 'Mirrorless' we're using it as a more convenient contraction of Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera (MILC)." He also said the term was introduced at the time the micro four thirds system was announced, which was about 2008, so that has been its meaning here for about 10 years.

When I read the word mirrorless in an article or post here at DPReview, my assumption is that it refers to a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. What introduces confusion is when people apply the term mirrorless to cameras that do not use interchangeable lenses. There are other category names to use. Canon, for example, refers to their fixed-lens cameras with 1" or larger sensors as "large sensor compacts," and they, too, define mirrorless as having interchangeable lenses. Looking at their product line-up, Panasonic also appears to reserve the word mirrorless for cameras with interchangeable lenses.
Yes - if we extend the term 'mirrorless' to any camera without a mirror, while it may be technically correct, it becomes completely meaningless.
While DPR polls are rather meaningless and not worth much, statistics-wise, it should give a bit of pause that almost 50% of the responders consider mirrorless to mean ‘without a mirror’ and not ‘MILC’

Many more than I would have thought...

Regards, Mike

--
Wait and see...
I hardly ever speak for anybody but myself. In the cases where I do mean to speak generally the statements are likely to be marked as such.
 
Last edited:
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand at all. Richard Butler made the editorial position of this website clear in a post above when he wrote, "When we use the term 'Mirrorless' we're using it as a more convenient contraction of Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera (MILC)." He also said the term was introduced at the time the micro four thirds system was announced, which was about 2008, so that has been its meaning here for about 10 years.

When I read the word mirrorless in an article or post here at DPReview, my assumption is that it refers to a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. What introduces confusion is when people apply the term mirrorless to cameras that do not use interchangeable lenses. There are other category names to use. Canon, for example, refers to their fixed-lens cameras with 1" or larger sensors as "large sensor compacts," and they, too, define mirrorless as having interchangeable lenses. Looking at their product line-up, Panasonic also appears to reserve the word mirrorless for cameras with interchangeable lenses.
Yes - if we extend the term 'mirrorless' to any camera without a mirror, while it may be technically correct, it becomes completely meaningless.
Since most of the cameras that were ever made are without a mirror maybe we should backtrack and just name the ones with mirrors "Mirrored" and do away with the SLR and DSLR names.
 
While DPR polls are rather meaningless and not worth much, statistics-wise, it should give a bit of pause that almost 50% of the responders consider mirrorless to mean ‘without a mirror’ and not ‘MILC’

Many more than I would have thought...

Regards, Mike
I agree Mike. I joined DPR five years ago and that was when I got corrected about this mirrorless term. We seem to be moving into this next stage of ILC and I assumed that the term would more widely understood. I'm guessing that is is widely understood within the MILC community but not so much outside or with new people just buying.

This thread has almost run it's course and I want to thank all that responded to the poll. Much appreciate! I wondered why, I was seeing certain things, in some threads and I think this explains why.

--
I'm a photo hacker. I use my expensive equipment to destroy anything in front of my camera. This is a special skill that can never be realized by low life photographers. A nurtured skill since the 1970's.
 
Last edited:
What part of "MIRROR"-less is so hard to understand ???

Is the word "lens" in that at all ???

This is simple ... MirrorLess is "MIRROR"-less.

Interchangeable Lens Camera (ILC) vs FIXED-lens is a separate issue, (just as different sensor-sizes is also a separate issue).
It's not hard to understand at all. Richard Butler made the editorial position of this website clear in a post above when he wrote, "When we use the term 'Mirrorless' we're using it as a more convenient contraction of Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera (MILC)." He also said the term was introduced at the time the micro four thirds system was announced, which was about 2008, so that has been its meaning here for about 10 years.

When I read the word mirrorless in an article or post here at DPReview, my assumption is that it refers to a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. What introduces confusion is when people apply the term mirrorless to cameras that do not use interchangeable lenses. There are other category names to use. Canon, for example, refers to their fixed-lens cameras with 1" or larger sensors as "large sensor compacts," and they, too, define mirrorless as having interchangeable lenses. Looking at their product line-up, Panasonic also appears to reserve the word mirrorless for cameras with interchangeable lenses.
Yes - if we extend the term 'mirrorless' to any camera without a mirror, while it may be technically correct, it becomes completely meaningless.
 

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