What first??

I need some advice on what to buy first for my off camera flash learning.

So i have 2 x Godox V860ii, Godox X-pro trigger setup with Sony a7ii

I'm trying to decide on a Softbox, Umbrella or Octabox for my first purchase to get started with indoor and outdoor portraits. I would like it to be reasonable portable.

I have seen the umbrellas that have removable skins and a baffle you can place over the opening to make a kind of shallow circle sofbox.




Something like this??

Or should i just get a good sized rectangle softox? about 30"x60" or 32"x40"?

Or would a Ocotabox be more versatile?

Any advice, recommendations would be helpful.

Thanks

This one: https://www.amazon.com/photek-softlighter-inch-umbrella-diffuser/dp/b0002htk7a, yes there are cheaper versions sold but why spend money twice?

craiggill said:

I need some advice on what to buy first for my off camera flash learning.

So i have 2 x Godox V860ii, Godox X-pro trigger setup with Sony a7ii

I'm trying to decide on a Softbox, Umbrella or Octabox for my first purchase to get started with indoor and outdoor portraits. I would like it to be reasonable portable.

Click to expand...

Not the cheapest solution, but I highly recommend the RapidBox Duo. Reasonable size for one or two flashes, quick and easy to set up and tear down, and durable, which is especially important for outdoor sessions. I eventually changed the ring in mine for a Bowens mount, so now I use it with my larger Godox 600 strobe.

I've used the Softlighter for many years and love the llight quality, but for the last couple of years I've moved to this slightly smaller and much less expensive alternative:


Setup is quicker because the front is permanently attached and I like the closure around the flash better. I use it mostly with a pair on hotshoe flashes twinned on a DIY mount, but I do sometimes use it with an elderly monolight when I need more power or the modeling light.

On the downside you lose the ability to remove the front and us it as an umbrella. The softlighter is a bit heavier build, but a good gust of wind could make either of them toast.

Honestly, at the beginner stage it does not make a lot of difference. Almost anything of decent quality will work, and as you learn and develop your style you will likely want to try other alternatives.

Gato

The lowest cost modifier to get is a 43"-45" white umbrella with a removable black backing. Using an umbrella like this is a good low cost way to learn about lighting. Once you master it then you will be able to understand when you want to use a different type of light modifier.

Indoors you will use it in reflection mode with the black backing in place 95% of the time and it will be positioned between 1 and 2 times the diameter from the subject for the best mix of softness and light fall off across the subject.

Using it in reflection mode with the black backing in place reduces stray light to a minimum.

In the shoot through mode an umbrella is a light grenade, blasting light out in a sphere all around the umbrella, causing lots of stray light if there is a nearby floor, wall, or ceiling for the light to bounce off of.

Those few times when you want to shoot with a very large amount of light fall off you can use it in the shoot through mode so you can get it very close to the subject. With the umbrella very close to the subject the inverse square law protects you from the stray light.

Outdoors use it either way.

Here is what I recommend for a highly portable kit.

Adorma Westcott 5-Section Aluminum Alloy Light Stand 7425

Adorama Westcott Metal Adjustable Shoe Mount Umbrella Bracket 5015

Adorama Westcott 43" Soft Silver Collapsible Umbrella 2002

or you can get the same things from B&H

B&H - Westcott Compact Light Stand (7') 7425

B&H - Westcott Adjustable Shoe Mount Umbrella Bracket 5015 B&H Photo

B&H - Westcott 43" White Umbrella, Collapsible 2011 B&H Photo

thanks for the info.

Just looking at these setups i have a question. Doesn't having the flash mounted at the front (subject side) of the umbrella create small shadows? or isn't it noticed?

Thanks

thanks for all that. It really helps.

craiggill said:

• Ucraiggill wrote:

thanks for the info.

Just looking at these setups i have a question. Doesn't having the flash mounted at the front (subject side) of the umbrella create small shadows? or isn't it noticed?

Thanks

Click to expand...

This is a common question but the simple answer is that it is not an issue. There are two interrelated reasons why.

- relative sizes

Even if your lighting instrument is a largish diameter monolight (say 6 inches in diameter) the ratio between the diameter of the lighting instrument and the diffuser is very large. With the 46-inch version for example, the area of the 6-inch diameter light is ~113 square inches while the approximate area of the diffused face of 46” Softlighter II is approximately 6648 square inches, so that ratio is approximately a 58:1 ratio.

- The nature of the light being produced. The light is at least double diffused. The direct light from the flash is first bounced off the soft white fabric interior of the umbrella before it is diffused by the scrim across the face of the umbrella. There is also some internal reflecting going on as well. This double diffusion homogenizes the light very effectively into one large source which immediately wraps around the lighting instrument.

This means that even if your subject is fairly close to the Softlighter II’s face the presence of the lighting instrument will not cast a shadow on the subject.

--
Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on instagram @therealellisv

craiggill said:

thanks for the info.

Just looking at these setups i have a question. Doesn't having the flash mounted at the front (subject side) of the umbrella create small shadows? or isn't it noticed?

Thanks

Click to expand...

The flash is typically not noticeable. It is common to even use larger strobes in this manner, again with minimal impact. The biggest surprise to me was seeing photogs standing directly in front of a 7' Westcott bounceback umbrella, between the umbrella and the subject. Talking about a large obstruction! I usually DON'T stand in front of my 7' umbrella, but it's nice to know the umbrellas are pretty tolerant of relatively small obstructions.

craiggill said:

thanks for the info.

Just looking at these setups i have a question. Doesn't having the flash mounted at the front (subject side) of the umbrella create small shadows? or isn't it noticed?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Look up Umbra and Penumbra. Yes, there will be a shadow cast by the light, but only for a short distance (shorter than would ever be used in real world photo application. Then there would be a partial shadow for another short distance, again, shorter than real world use. Beyond that, the light spread from the outer areas of the umbrella all comes back together to render the shadow area null. Only if the umbrella was perfectly parabolic (and parabolic umbrellas are parabaloidal, not perfectly parabolic) would there be a shadow, because the light is so focused (like the Bat signal).

As for Softbox vs. softbox-ish umbrellas, I favor the umbrellas unless, A) I am shooting something reflective, like glass, or emphatic catchlights in the eyes, in which case, you can see the shape of the light or ribs, or B) I need to restrict the spread with a grid.

craiggill said:

thanks for the info.

Just looking at these setups i have a question. Doesn't having the flash mounted at the front (subject side) of the umbrella create small shadows? or isn't it noticed?

Thanks

Click to expand...

When your light is directly on the camera the subject is evenly lit, which means you don't see any highlights and shadows on the subject. This deer in the headlights lighting is possibly the worst possible lighting for portraits and produces a flat image that looks flat.

To give a subject in a flat image a 3D appearance you want highlights and shadows. You get these by using the light off to the side, up, and at certain distances.

It is easy to understand why moving the flash away from the camera to the side and up causes highlights and shadows. Understanding how to control how soft the light is and what the ratio of the highlights to shadows is a bit more difficult.

Basically the larger a diffuse source of light is with respect to the subject the softer it is. If you have a diffuse light source the closer it is to the subject the larger it will be with respect to the subject so the softer the light.

Control of the ratio between highlights and shadows depends on two things.

The first is the distance of the light from the subject. The amount the brightness of the light on the side of the subject closest to the light vs the far side of the subject is controlled by the inverse square law.

Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Inverse Square Law

Frank Doorhof - Inverse Square Law - YouTube

The closer the main light is to the subject the greater the amount of light fall off across the subject, thus the greater the ratio between the highlights and shadows. Get too close and if you expose for the brightest diffuse highlight (which is what you should do) then the light fall off is so great that the shadows will go pure featureless black.

Conversely the further the main light is from the subject the less fall off across the subject. The near and far sides of the subject receive almost the same amount of light since the relative distance across the subject is small with respect to the distance from the light source. The light becomes flat and boring.

The second method of controlling the highlight to shadow ratios is the use of secondary "fill" light.

You normally use a diffuser that is as large as or larger than the subject at subject to diffuser distances between 1 and 2 times the diameter or diagonal of the diffuser. At these distances you get the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

At these distances any blocking of the light from a reflection umbrella by the flash or strobe head is unnoticeable because the light has been diffused so much.