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How do you critique a photo?

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Jonsi said:
tbcass said:
Some point out only the things they think are wrong with a photo while others give only praise. I think a good critique should include both. What do you think?
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Way, way back when I used to care what people thought, I appreciated being told the things that could be improved and sometimes "how" if I didn't know.

Of course it was my high school photography teacher, so it paid off to care what he thought ;) ... though I would have anyway. Great guy.

I didn't need to be praised since I already thought they were good or I wouldn't have submitted them.

What I learned about DPR way back when the rules were not to post photos except to support a question/problem... was that 99% of the people here only want praise/validation. Dare suggest an improvement and an entire forum clique will be all over ya.

Lol..
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Well I have a BS in Biology/Secondary Education and taught for 2 years before I gave up that career (hated it). We were taught that to teach properly both what is correct and what is wrong must be pointed out. To think otherwise is just plain wrong IMO.
 
tbcass said:
nicodimus22 said:
I only want to hear about the negative things, because those are the only things that I can learn from and improve. However, I understand that some people want to hear both, and that's OK. Everyone is different.
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But the positive comments are just as important because you need to know what you are doing right just as much as wrong. Learning requires information about both.
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I’m with Nico. I don’t need positive critique. I wouldn’t post something if I didn’t think it was any good. Negative helps me see the things I missed or didn’t know. I suppose very specific positive comments can be useful (eg, I like the way you’ve used leading lines to guide the viewer from the blah to the other blah), but generic praise just clouds what you need to get from it.
 
tbcass said:
Gerry Winterbourne said:
tbcass said:
Some point out only the things they think are wrong with a photo while others give only praise. I think a good critique should include both. What do you think?
Click to expand...
The question is simple but the answer less so.

Your question implies something that isn't necessarily true - that a picture will always deserve some form of praise. But, sadly, many pictures don't deserve praise.
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That implication is wrong and it's pretty rare that a posted photo has no merit whatsoever. There's a big difference between pointing out what is positive about a photo and "praise".
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You wrote "praise"; I wrote "praise". I neither wrote nor implied "merit".

What I wrote is true; you made a false inference about what I meant and then criticised it. So much for useful critique.
 
richiebee said:
I’m with Nico. I don’t need positive critique. I wouldn’t post something if I didn’t think it was any good. Negative helps me see the things I missed or didn’t know.

I suppose very specific positive comments can be useful (eg, I like the way you’ve used leading lines to guide the viewer from the blah to the other blah), but generic praise just clouds what you need to get from it.
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I didn't mean "generic praise", or generic criticism for that matter. Some people took it for that and that was my mistake for not being specific enough.That's useless. I meant specific things about the photo that are good and bad. Positive feedback, not praise. So believe it or not you agree with me even though you thought you didn't. My mistake.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
 
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Gerry Winterbourne said:
You wrote "praise"; I wrote "praise". I neither wrote nor implied "merit".

What I wrote is true; you made a false inference about what I meant and then criticised it. So much for useful critique.
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When I said both I didn't really mean general praise. I should have been more specific.
 
Tuloom said:
It sucks or it doesn't.
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Totally useless feedback. If your photography sucks, don't you want to know why? If it's good don't you want to know why? Generally speaking people are poor judges of their own work.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
 
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tbcass said:
As for BIF, I tend to avoid critiquing them because I suck at it and don't really do much of it. It's possibly the most difficult type of photography so any reasonably successful example is fine by me.
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The images in the link you provided would be deemed record shots by photographic judges as they contain no artistic merit.

on that note, a record shot that is technically perfect may well be lower ranked than a photograph that is flawed but contains artistic merit such as composition. subject separation from the background and so forth.

there is nothing at all wrong with just a record shot as it serves its purpose to identify the subject or illustrate interesting behavior.as it's all about the subject and not the photography.
 
tbcass said:
Jonsi said:
tbcass said:
Some point out only the things they think are wrong with a photo while others give only praise. I think a good critique should include both. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Way, way back when I used to care what people thought, I appreciated being told the things that could be improved and sometimes "how" if I didn't know.

Of course it was my high school photography teacher, so it paid off to care what he thought ;) ... though I would have anyway. Great guy.

I didn't need to be praised since I already thought they were good or I wouldn't have submitted them.

What I learned about DPR way back when the rules were not to post photos except to support a question/problem... was that 99% of the people here only want praise/validation. Dare suggest an improvement and an entire forum clique will be all over ya.

Lol..
Click to expand...
Well I have a BS in Biology/Secondary Education and taught for 2 years before I gave up that career (hated it). We were taught that to teach properly both what is correct and what is wrong must be pointed out. To think otherwise is just plain wrong IMO.
Click to expand...
 
Jonsi said:
1,000% guarantee it doesn't align in any way, shape or form with America's problematic, liberal educational system.
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My education occured in the 60's well before the development of "America's Liberal educational system", something I also find problematic. I'm not talking about underserved praise but straight forward information about what is done right and what is done wrong.
 
AmbleYonder said:
AmbleYonder said:
As for BIF, I tend to avoid critiquing them because I suck at it and don't really do much of it. It's possibly the most difficult type of photography so any reasonably successful example is fine by me.
Click to expand...
The images in the link you provided would be deemed record shots by photographic judges as they contain no artistic merit.
Click to expand...
Generally wildlife shots have no "artistic merit" because they are spur of the moment and there is no time to compose. Your assumption that all photography should be based on artistic merit is wrong IMO.
AmbleYonder said:
on that note, a record shot that is technically perfect may well be lower ranked than a photograph that is flawed but contains artistic merit such as composition. subject separation from the background and so forth.
Click to expand...
Or if it's being judged as a record photo it will be ranked much higher.
AmbleYonder said:
there is nothing at all wrong with just a record shot as it serves its purpose to identify the subject or illustrate interesting behavior.as it's all about the subject and not the photography.
Click to expand...
Apparently you rate artistic photography higher than record photography. I base that on the condescending statement underlined above. I do not. They are just different. It's as if I said there's nothing wrong with artistic photography even if it's just a poor representation of the rear thing.
 
tbcass said:
Jonsi said:
1,000% guarantee it doesn't align in any way, shape or form with America's problematic, liberal educational system.
Click to expand...
My education occured in the 60's well before the development of "America's Liberal educational system", something I also find problematic. I'm not talking about underserved praise but straight forward information about what is done right and what is done wrong.
Click to expand...
 
Jonsi said:
FYI, I wasn't calling you out as an educator or on your education
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That's OK because I do have a problem with the way educators and parents seem so reluctant to criticize anything children do these days. In my day all we got was criticism. Today only praise. A balance of both is best IMO.
 
To be blunt, you seem to have such fixed views on this "needing to say both good and bad things" that I don't understand why you asked the question in the first place.
 
tbcass said:
Gerry Winterbourne said:
You wrote "praise"; I wrote "praise". I neither wrote nor implied "merit".

What I wrote is true; you made a false inference about what I meant and then criticised it. So much for useful critique.
Click to expand...
When I said both I didn't really mean general praise. I should have been more specific.
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Perhaps, but it makes no difference here. I see many pictures that have nothing praiseworthy in them even in the details. I didn't read your initial post as meaning "just give general praise"; indeed, I read an implied condemnation of such general praise.

--
---
Gerry
___________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
[email protected]
 
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Stick to the subject or shut up!
 
tbcass said:
AmbleYonder said:
tbcass said:
As for BIF, I tend to avoid critiquing them because I suck at it and don't really do much of it. It's possibly the most difficult type of photography so any reasonably successful example is fine by me.
Click to expand...
The images in the link you provided would be deemed record shots by photographic judges as they contain no artistic merit.
Click to expand...
Generally wildlife shots have no "artistic merit" because they are spur of the moment and there is no time to compose.
Click to expand...
Which is why you and i both suck at BIF then. lack of dedication. and why those images which contain both technical perfection and artistic merit stand out from the crowd.
tbcass said:
Your assumption that all photography should be based on artistic merit is wrong IMO.
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as i have just explained with a record shot, not all photography is based on artistic merit.
tbcass said:
tbcass said:
on that note, a record shot that is technically perfect may well be lower ranked than a photograph that is flawed but contains artistic merit such as composition. subject separation from the background and so forth.
Click to expand...
Or if it's being judged as a record photo it will be ranked much higher.
Click to expand...
if you say so. but that is not the case with photographic judges from my experience
tbcass said:
tbcass said:
there is nothing at all wrong with just a record shot as it serves its purpose to identify the subject or illustrate interesting behavior.as it's all about the subject and not the photography.
Click to expand...
Apparently you rate artistic photography higher than record photography. I base that on the condescending statement underlined above. I do not. They are just different. It's as if I said there's nothing wrong with artistic photography even if it's just a poor representation of the rear thing.
Click to expand...
"just a record shot" is how I refer to 99% of my wildlife images. so nothing at all wrong with that statement.

apparently, you are just interested in picking at straws.
 
AmbleYonder said:
"just a record shot" is how I refer to 99% of my wildlife images. so nothing at all wrong with that statement.

apparently, you are just interested in picking at straws.
Click to expand...
No, I misread your post as being condescending toward record photography.
 
tbcass said:
Some point out only the things they think are wrong with a photo while others give only praise. I think a good critique should include both. What do you think?
Click to expand...
It all depends on what is good about the photo, who the photographer is and whether or not there is an expectation that the photographer is going to listen to advice. Advice that isn't going to be considered is best withheld.

But yes, it isn't profitable to only hear the bad stuff. The good should be reinforced.
 
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It has not to be a general rule to give positive feedback, I personally mistrust praise in these days of "like for like". I know others can feel very stressed to what seems social rejection but in my personal view when somebody critiques the composition of my photographs and points anything negatively then I just take it as a subjective opinion, except when it is a technical observation and then I say thanks.

In the given example the mistake was to give unsolicited critique (if the author published them then obviously he is happy), but if the author had asked an opinion toward photographic composition then I had agree and my positive feedback had not been to say good things about what worked but a way to correct in the next time the shots (for example go in an hour with a less harsh light or play with the contrast) In the post the author shows the technical capability of the camera and within its parameters of sensor and lens aperture it worked, even it seems the camera got to underexpose the background in order to save the highlights of the subject.
 
tbcass said:
Tuloom said:
It sucks or it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Totally useless feedback. If your photography sucks, don't you want to know why? If it's good don't you want to know why? Generally speaking people are poor judges of their own work.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It does a person no good to get feedback like that.
 
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