Some proof that it's not the gear

It was done in that video. There are no ifs. For that particular creator(s) vision it did the job and in impressive one at that.

Yes, nonsense from the ILC crowd because they can't deal with the fact that this tech will be surpassed in the near future by 'phone' that fits in your back pocket and cost a fraction of the cost.
People don't care about the fact that a certain tech might* be surpassed in the future, it's more the annoyance that because one person doesn't care about the compromises, they belittle everyone who does, and it gets rather tiring after a while.

*I mean it's clear something that can fit in your back pocket will never ergonomically match a full size camera, so it's largely irrelevant, but w/e
Actually it’s been found that one of the main reasons why smartphone are now the most popular type of camera is their ergonomics.

They are specifically designed to be an extension of your arm. They are also more or less a virtual picture frame and your arm acts as a full range of motion monopod as you can proficiently take photos one handed or by using accurate voice control.

On the other hand DSLRs are horribly inefficient when it comes to their ergonomics and they are only that form factor because you have to place massive barrels of heavy metal and glass on one end of them and because of that flappy mirror.

The only people who find them ergonomically correct are the ones who have spent years getting used to how clunky they are and now find anything lighter than a kilo to be awkward.
"it's been found"? By whom exactly has it been found?

The whole extension of your arm monopod BS applies to literally any compact camera, except compact cameras all at least have two phase shutter buttons that actually work, rather than some soft laggy piece of plastic that might have a noticeable 2-stage action if you're lucky.
Compact cameras aren't as light and as comfortable to hold in your hand as smartphones. The controls also require awkward finger placements that are not as seamless as using a touchscreen.
DSLRs have direct control of virtually every parameter you could want to change. I mean sure, most smartphone photographers probably don't know half of what the parameters do so don't see it as a benefit, but that doesn't even remotely translate to them being better ergonomically.
Smartphones now provide the same amount of controls. You can adjust exposure, iso, etc. They also provide you with additional controls like adjusting the lighting and more direct compositional elements like smoothness and shape of Bokeh. At the rate they're going, you'll be able to control every aspect of image production in the phone using the most intuitive controls. We also see AI that is able to predict compositional preferences while shooting. Think of it as LR presets but real time. We already have them with in-camera filters but this will happen automatically based on the user's artistic style.
If smartphone ergonomics are so wonderful then why aren't up and coming self taught professionals gravitating to touchscreen focused cameras, which is about the closest you can get with a decent sensor.
This statement shows that you can't get your mind away from the archaic. Smartphones are creating the most skilled generation of photographers in the history of the art. They say that practice makes perfect and competition breeds creativity right? Well, the smartphone generation has produced more original compositions and have taken more pictures than all of the generations of photographers before them combined. This is because smartphone cameras are so intuitive, mostly because of the touchscreen interface, and because they have turned photos into a dominant form of social communication. Some will argue that this is a bad thing for young people but for photography it has been the biggest game-changer since digital.

Your statement also leads me to believe that you've never used a smartphone or the touchscreen on a camera because you'd know that they are night and day when it comes to intuitiveness. The best touchscreens on even the latest cameras are about as accurate and laggy as smartphone touchscreens were 5 years ago and thats android phones.

I've said before that the reason why cameras are dying in popularity is because they have failed to incorporate accurate touchscreen control, become easily portable, and have the ability to post process and easily share photos.

ILCs are suffering the same fate as Harley Davidson. They only focused on a specific demographic of people for too long and didn't recognize the changing tide in time. Mirrorless was their last ditch effort in saving the ship but unfortunately, its mostly just a marketing gimmick and it still doesn't rectify the main issue with ILCs which is the laws of physics when it comes to lenses. Smartphones are resolving this with computational photography and lens arrays while also giving you all of the benefits noted above.

Don't worry though. This is not to say that ILCs will become extinct. Like any hobby, you'll have your traditionalists who will still lug all of that gear out into the frosty wilderness, painstakingly erect their titanium tripod, spend several peaceful moments carefully blowing and brushing their sensor, polishing their 12" long shiny shaft of metal and glass and then sitting back and meditating while sipping on a hot cup of joe and waiting for a horned owl to peak out from a tree 600 meters away.

Then they will go back home, boot up their NASA supercomputer with the 50" screen, insert their 1000 mb/s 12K SUPERDUPERSSD card, wait 10 minutes for LR to open, and then zoom in to see the sub-atomic particles at work in the pixel located in the upper-most right corner of the photo. After checking all 350,000,000 pixels, they will eject the SD card, label it Horned Owl # 157 and place it neatly behind SD card Horned Owl # 156 in their hermetically sealed storage case.
 
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It was done in that video. There are no ifs. For that particular creator(s) vision it did the job and in impressive one at that.

Yes, nonsense from the ILC crowd because they can't deal with the fact that this tech will be surpassed in the near future by 'phone' that fits in your back pocket and cost a fraction of the cost.
People don't care about the fact that a certain tech might* be surpassed in the future, it's more the annoyance that because one person doesn't care about the compromises, they belittle everyone who does, and it gets rather tiring after a while.

*I mean it's clear something that can fit in your back pocket will never ergonomically match a full size camera, so it's largely irrelevant, but w/e
Actually it’s been found that one of the main reasons why smartphone are now the most popular type of camera is their ergonomics.

They are specifically designed to be an extension of your arm. They are also more or less a virtual picture frame and your arm acts as a full range of motion monopod as you can proficiently take photos one handed or by using accurate voice control.

On the other hand DSLRs are horribly inefficient when it comes to their ergonomics and they are only that form factor because you have to place massive barrels of heavy metal and glass on one end of them and because of that flappy mirror.

The only people who find them ergonomically correct are the ones who have spent years getting used to how clunky they are and now find anything lighter than a kilo to be awkward.
"it's been found"? By whom exactly has it been found?

The whole extension of your arm monopod BS applies to literally any compact camera, except compact cameras all at least have two phase shutter buttons that actually work, rather than some soft laggy piece of plastic that might have a noticeable 2-stage action if you're lucky.
Compact cameras aren't as light and as comfortable to hold in your hand as smartphones. The controls also require awkward finger placements that are not as seamless as using a touchscreen.
DSLRs have direct control of virtually every parameter you could want to change. I mean sure, most smartphone photographers probably don't know half of what the parameters do so don't see it as a benefit, but that doesn't even remotely translate to them being better ergonomically.
Smartphones now provide the same amount of controls. You can adjust exposure, iso,
If smartphone ergonomics are so wonderful then why aren't up and coming self taught professionals gravitating to touchscreen focused cameras, which is about the closest you can get with a decent sensor.
This statement shows that you can't get your mind away from the archaic. Smartphones are creating the most skilled generation of photographers in the history of the art. They say that practice makes perfect and competition breeds creativity right? Well, the smartphone generation has produced more original compositions and have taken more pictures than all of the generations of photographers before them combined. This is because smartphone cameras are so intuitive, mostly because of the touchscreen interface, and because they have turned photos into a dominant form of social communication. Some will argue that this is a bad thing for young people but for photography it has been the biggest game-changer since digital.

Your statement also leads me to believe that you've never used a smartphone or the touchscreen on a camera because you'd know that they are night and day when it comes to intuitiveness. The best touchscreens on even the latest cameras are about as accurate and laggy as smartphone touchscreens were 5 years ago and thats android phones.

I've said before that the reason why cameras are dying in popularity is because they have failed to incorporate accurate touchscreen control, become easily portable, and have the ability to post process and easily share photos.

ILCs are suffering the same fate as Harley Davidson. They only focused on a specific demographic of people for too long and didn't recognize the changing tide in time. Mirrorless was their last ditch effort in saving the ship but unfortunately, its mostly just a marketing gimmick and it still doesn't rectify the main issue with ILCs which is the laws of physics when it comes to lenses. Smartphones are resolving this with computational photography and lens arrays while also giving you all of the benefits noted above.

Don't worry though. This is not to say that ILCs will become extinct. Like any hobby, you'll have your traditionalists who will still lug all of that gear out into the frosty wilderness, painstakingly erect their titanium tripod, spend several peaceful moments carefully blowing and brushing their sensor, polishing their 12" long shiny shaft of metal and glass and then sitting back and meditating while sipping on a hot cup of joe and waiting for a horned owl to peak out from a tree 600 meters away.

Then they will go back home, boot up their NASA supercomputer with the 50" screen, insert their 1000 mb/s 12K SUPERDUPERSSD card, wait 10 minutes for LR to open, and then zoom in to see the sub-atomic particles at work in the pixel located in the upper-most right corner of the photo. After checking all 350,000,000 pixels, they will eject the SD card, label it Horned Owl # 157 and place it neatly behind SD card Horned Owl # 156 in their hermetically sealed storage case.
I will not give up to shot images with my camera's, even I am using my smartphone too to shot images, when I have not a camera with me.....

But I agree with you that cameras will be less and less turn out to be popular, if they already now not that much popular anyway ........

All the young people I know, all the young people I see everywhere, are using a smartphone for shooting photo's, incl. my Daughter and Grandchildren, in spite they also own a camera........

For them, as photography is not their hobby, the smartphone is all what they need, to shot some quite good images, and send these straight away to their friends / family etc.......

So much easier with less hassles........

Griddi.....
 
"it's been found"? By whom exactly has it been found?

The whole extension of your arm monopod BS applies to literally any compact camera, except compact cameras all at least have two phase shutter buttons that actually work, rather than some soft laggy piece of plastic that might have a noticeable 2-stage action if you're lucky.
Compact cameras aren't as light and as comfortable to hold in your hand as smartphones.
You've got to be kidding. Im no fan of compacts but good lord, phones are the most irritating "cameras" to hold. Pinch your fingers above and below? Side to side? Watch out for the volume rocker though, and the power button on the other side.

Dude you are high as a kite, phones are terrible. Not comfortable at all, and hope the sun isn't too bright, or the angle isn't too high or low. No VF and no articulating screen. If im using a LV based camera, it better damn well allow me to shoot properly with the LCD that i can angle when i need it.
The controls also require awkward finger placements that are not as seamless as using a touchscreen.
A touchscreen isn't seamless, every menu is a seam. You know what's seamless? Physical controls that i can adjust without taking my eye off my composition of my subject. When you have to surf menus on the same frame you are composing on, that's not seamless.
DSLRs have direct control of virtually every parameter you could want to change. I mean sure, most smartphone photographers probably don't know half of what the parameters do so don't see it as a benefit, but that doesn't even remotely translate to them being better ergonomically.
Smartphones now provide the same amount of controls. You can adjust exposure, iso, etc.
The same huh? How about AF? Manual focus? And every one of those settings you speak of, a separate screen dial or menu screen. I have two dials and another half dozen buttons and switches to control EVERY setting on my ILC. Phones aren't even close.
They also provide you with additional controls like adjusting the lighting and more direct compositional elements like smoothness and shape of Bokeh. At the rate they're going, you'll be able to control every aspect of image production in the phone using the most intuitive controls. We also see AI that is able to predict compositional preferences while shooting. Think of it as LR presets but real time. We already have them with in-camera filters but this will happen automatically based on the user's artistic style.
All the lipstick in the world won't hid the fact, it's still a pig.
Smartphones are creating the most skilled generation of photographers in the history of the art.
I literally spit out my protein shake. Skilled? Yep, a random selfie search on google shows all kinds of skill...



Disclaimer: Not my photo.
Disclaimer: Not my photo.

They say that practice makes perfect and competition breeds creativity right? Well, the smartphone generation has produced more original compositions and have taken more pictures than all of the generations of photographers before them combined. This is because smartphone cameras are so intuitive, mostly because of the touchscreen interface, and because they have turned photos into a dominant form of social communication. Some will argue that this is a bad thing for young people but for photography it has been the biggest game-changer since digital.

Your statement also leads me to believe that you've never used a smartphone or the touchscreen on a camera because you'd know that they are night and day when it comes to intuitiveness. The best touchscreens on even the latest cameras are about as accurate and laggy as smartphone touchscreens were 5 years ago and thats android phones.
Your statement tells me you haven't used a good ILC touchscreen. I have an iphone 8+, a fairly advanced phone ;-) Had a LG G5 before that. I have also used a GX7 and GX7 from Panasonic. Their touch screens are every bit as responsive, and the LV feed from the sensor is far less laggy.

With my phone, i can literally wave the phone side to side and see in the screen the delay in movement. Do the same on the Panasonics' LCDs and that lag is gone. Phones are freaking terrible in comparison. I have owned both, ever ML i have owned was better than every phone i have owned. You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
I've said before that the reason why cameras are dying in popularity is because they have failed to incorporate accurate touchscreen control, become easily portable, and have the ability to post process and easily share photos.
They never will become easily portable unless you shrink the sensor and lens apertures, which i will never buy. I don't want portable, i want good.
Don't worry though. This is not to say that ILCs will become extinct. Like any hobby, you'll have your traditionalists who will still lug all of that gear out into the frosty wilderness, painstakingly erect their titanium tripod, spend several peaceful moments carefully blowing and brushing their sensor, polishing their 12" long shiny shaft of metal and glass and then sitting back and meditating while sipping on a hot cup of joe and waiting for a horned owl to peak out from a tree 600 meters away.
Or we will take all kinds of photos that are far better technically than any phone can produce. Hey that's a great idea for a thread, i will make that next. For all the phone warriors here, lets have a comparison. since you are so sure of your phone and all, right? Look for the thread, it's on the way.


--
"For a time, i considered sparing, your wretched little planet Cybertron. But now... you shall witness, it's dismemberment !" - Unicron
 
I don't understand what difference it makes what gimbals, lighting, etc. were used along with the phone.
Because that video would look nothing like it does without all that extra gear, that's the point......
Some of you guess really need to get a grip on reality.

I don't see anyone claiming that this was shot handheld or without other equipment that is key for a production like this.

There is not a single camera out there that could provide the silky smooth panning and overhead shots, and perfectly stabilized picture that we see in this video without the use of other specialized equipment.

The OP is clearly only focusing on the camera when he says 'gear'.

Please stop trying to create an argument that isn't there. It makes you guys look like you're on the defensive for no reason which doesn't send the best message for ILC users.
So your only point is a small sensor can be used and it still turn out ok? Well if you don't need more DOF control and if can spend the money to make sure all the lighting is within it's dynamic range, and if you don't need to adjust the focal plane when somebody is moving, and if the scene isn't dark enough to bring out massive noise..... sure. But that's some big ifs.

If you controlled everything enough you could use a pinhole camera. And? Change any one of the above and the pone fails miserably. Large sensor/aperture ILC are capable of clearing so many more hurdles, and for less money than that phone.

All this nonsense so you guys can feel better about using a phone instead of ILC.
 
thenoilif wrote:noise..... sure. But that's some big ifs.

Yes, nonsense from the ILC crowd because they can't deal with the fact that this tech will be surpassed in the near future by 'phone' that fits in your back pocket and cost a fraction of the cost.
You have pretty much laid out your thoughts on the smartphone technology. It makes one wonder why your posting on this site. There are a number of smartphone sites that offer forums. There you would find like minds and not bother us using these primitive devices called ILCs.
 
Anyone notice there is a pesky mosquito in the room? Could someone please swat it and put it out of it's misery? Oh, and please get a great mif (mosquito in flight) image with your smartphone at the same time.
 
Makes me wonder why you're posting on this site given that its a site dedicated to the technology of cameras and there hasn't been a technological breakthrough in photography the likes of the smartphone camera since digital was introduced.
Not even close. If portability is priority, a phone can't hold a candle to this.



Talk about ergonomics and convenience.
Talk about ergonomics and convenience.



--
"For a time, i considered sparing, your wretched little planet Cybertron. But now... you shall witness, it's dismemberment !" - Unicron
 
It was done in that video. There are no ifs. For that particular creator(s) vision it did the job and in impressive one at that.

Yes, nonsense from the ILC crowd because they can't deal with the fact that this tech will be surpassed in the near future by 'phone' that fits in your back pocket and cost a fraction of the cost.
People don't care about the fact that a certain tech might* be surpassed in the future, it's more the annoyance that because one person doesn't care about the compromises, they belittle everyone who does, and it gets rather tiring after a while.

*I mean it's clear something that can fit in your back pocket will never ergonomically match a full size camera, so it's largely irrelevant, but w/e
Actually it’s been found that one of the main reasons why smartphone are now the most popular type of camera is their ergonomics.

They are specifically designed to be an extension of your arm. They are also more or less a virtual picture frame and your arm acts as a full range of motion monopod as you can proficiently take photos one handed or by using accurate voice control.

On the other hand DSLRs are horribly inefficient when it comes to their ergonomics and they are only that form factor because you have to place massive barrels of heavy metal and glass on one end of them and because of that flappy mirror.

The only people who find them ergonomically correct are the ones who have spent years getting used to how clunky they are and now find anything lighter than a kilo to be awkward.
"it's been found"? By whom exactly has it been found?

The whole extension of your arm monopod BS applies to literally any compact camera, except compact cameras all at least have two phase shutter buttons that actually work, rather than some soft laggy piece of plastic that might have a noticeable 2-stage action if you're lucky.
Compact cameras aren't as light and as comfortable to hold in your hand as smartphones. The controls also require awkward finger placements that are not as seamless as using a touchscreen.
DSLRs have direct control of virtually every parameter you could want to change. I mean sure, most smartphone photographers probably don't know half of what the parameters do so don't see it as a benefit, but that doesn't even remotely translate to them being better ergonomically.
Smartphones now provide the same amount of controls. You can adjust exposure, iso,
If smartphone ergonomics are so wonderful then why aren't up and coming self taught professionals gravitating to touchscreen focused cameras, which is about the closest you can get with a decent sensor.
This statement shows that you can't get your mind away from the archaic. Smartphones are creating the most skilled generation of photographers in the history of the art. They say that practice makes perfect and competition breeds creativity right? Well, the smartphone generation has produced more original compositions and have taken more pictures than all of the generations of photographers before them combined. This is because smartphone cameras are so intuitive, mostly because of the touchscreen interface, and because they have turned photos into a dominant form of social communication. Some will argue that this is a bad thing for young people but for photography it has been the biggest game-changer since digital.

Your statement also leads me to believe that you've never used a smartphone or the touchscreen on a camera because you'd know that they are night and day when it comes to intuitiveness. The best touchscreens on even the latest cameras are about as accurate and laggy as smartphone touchscreens were 5 years ago and thats android phones.

I've said before that the reason why cameras are dying in popularity is because they have failed to incorporate accurate touchscreen control, become easily portable, and have the ability to post process and easily share photos.

ILCs are suffering the same fate as Harley Davidson. They only focused on a specific demographic of people for too long and didn't recognize the changing tide in time. Mirrorless was their last ditch effort in saving the ship but unfortunately, its mostly just a marketing gimmick and it still doesn't rectify the main issue with ILCs which is the laws of physics when it comes to lenses. Smartphones are resolving this with computational photography and lens arrays while also giving you all of the benefits noted above.

Don't worry though. This is not to say that ILCs will become extinct. Like any hobby, you'll have your traditionalists who will still lug all of that gear out into the frosty wilderness, painstakingly erect their titanium tripod, spend several peaceful moments carefully blowing and brushing their sensor, polishing their 12" long shiny shaft of metal and glass and then sitting back and meditating while sipping on a hot cup of joe and waiting for a horned owl to peak out from a tree 600 meters away.

Then they will go back home, boot up their NASA supercomputer with the 50" screen, insert their 1000 mb/s 12K SUPERDUPERSSD card, wait 10 minutes for LR to open, and then zoom in to see the sub-atomic particles at work in the pixel located in the upper-most right corner of the photo. After checking all 350,000,000 pixels, they will eject the SD card, label it Horned Owl # 157 and place it neatly behind SD card Horned Owl # 156 in their hermetically sealed storage case.
For them, as photography is not their hobby
Correct. It's their life. And they all want to share it in great details and make it look as

beautiful as possible.
 

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