Sigma 16mm 1.4 - focus problems at 2.8 and 5.6 in AF-S

This is interesting because I've never noticed the issue at f5.6. unfortunately there is no centralised sigma support email (I tried emailing the US side but was told to find my own country instead) so it is very difficult to highlight to them that it's an issue with their own lens.
Sigma has already responded that it's a camera issue.
Yeah. Yet unfortunately no one has written to Sony about it...
Feel free to register your complaint with Sony.
Difficult to do so when I cannot reproduce it on my 50mm
It took me some time to find it with my Sigma 30/1.4 when I first read about it. I thought for quite a while that it wasn't happening and posted it wasn't, but, after I finally did find it, it was easy to spot with other lenses including my SEL50F18.
Similar to you, found it quite difficult to replicate on my sigma 16mm at first but once I did, was able to do so consistently. But the same methodology didnt apply to the 50mm. In any case, if it's difficult to reproduce might be difficult for Sony to notice a problem :(
Have someone tried if the live view effect OFF is able to fix the issue in af-s?
 
This is interesting because I've never noticed the issue at f5.6. unfortunately there is no centralised sigma support email (I tried emailing the US side but was told to find my own country instead) so it is very difficult to highlight to them that it's an issue with their own lens.
Sigma has already responded that it's a camera issue.
Yeah. Yet unfortunately no one has written to Sony about it...
Feel free to register your complaint with Sony.
Difficult to do so when I cannot reproduce it on my 50mm
It took me some time to find it with my Sigma 30/1.4 when I first read about it. I thought for quite a while that it wasn't happening and posted it wasn't, but, after I finally did find it, it was easy to spot with other lenses including my SEL50F18.
Similar to you, found it quite difficult to replicate on my sigma 16mm at first but once I did, was able to do so consistently. But the same methodology didnt apply to the 50mm. In any case, if it's difficult to reproduce might be difficult for Sony to notice a problem :(
Have someone tried if the live view effect OFF is able to fix the issue in af-s?
I'll have to give that a try.
 
This is interesting because I've never noticed the issue at f5.6. unfortunately there is no centralised sigma support email (I tried emailing the US side but was told to find my own country instead) so it is very difficult to highlight to them that it's an issue with their own lens.
Sigma has already responded that it's a camera issue.
Yeah. Yet unfortunately no one has written to Sony about it...
Feel free to register your complaint with Sony.
Difficult to do so when I cannot reproduce it on my 50mm
It took me some time to find it with my Sigma 30/1.4 when I first read about it. I thought for quite a while that it wasn't happening and posted it wasn't, but, after I finally did find it, it was easy to spot with other lenses including my SEL50F18.
Similar to you, found it quite difficult to replicate on my sigma 16mm at first but once I did, was able to do so consistently. But the same methodology didnt apply to the 50mm. In any case, if it's difficult to reproduce might be difficult for Sony to notice a problem :(
Have someone tried if the live view effect OFF is able to fix the issue in af-s?
What is live view effect?
 
This is interesting because I've never noticed the issue at f5.6. unfortunately there is no centralised sigma support email (I tried emailing the US side but was told to find my own country instead) so it is very difficult to highlight to them that it's an issue with their own lens.
Sigma has already responded that it's a camera issue.
Yeah. Yet unfortunately no one has written to Sony about it...
Feel free to register your complaint with Sony.
Difficult to do so when I cannot reproduce it on my 50mm
It took me some time to find it with my Sigma 30/1.4 when I first read about it. I thought for quite a while that it wasn't happening and posted it wasn't, but, after I finally did find it, it was easy to spot with other lenses including my SEL50F18.
Similar to you, found it quite difficult to replicate on my sigma 16mm at first but once I did, was able to do so consistently. But the same methodology didnt apply to the 50mm. In any case, if it's difficult to reproduce might be difficult for Sony to notice a problem :(
Have someone tried if the live view effect OFF is able to fix the issue in af-s?
What is live view effect?
The issue with AF-S has been reported by some not to occur with Live View Effect disabled.
 
I have managed to replicate the issue at f5.6 on the Sigma 16mm in Live View. Unfortunately, this time round, Live View Setting Effect OFF doesn't seem to help.

There seems to be a severe backfocus at mid distances to right before infinity. Infinity isn't affected. Focus was set on the red tiles below. I can reproduce this consistently, when you first focus to infinity and then shift focus on red tiles.

9b27e41c508146d7ace6c0f993c29970.jpg

You can see that the beige tiles (at the bottom of the photo) are most in focus instead. That is some 10 metres away from the red tiles I focused on.

9c9a38b18e5c42dd941b92113499c9f0.jpg

Meanwhile, you can see the sharpness difference with AF-C.

Still unable to reproduce on Sony 50mm f1.8. Can you tell me--which aperture, NTSC or PAL, how far away is the focus distance? EVF or viewfinder?
 
Last edited:
I have managed to replicate the issue at f5.6 on the Sigma 16mm in Live View. Unfortunately, this time round, Live View Setting Effect OFF doesn't seem to help.

There seems to be a severe backfocus at mid distances to right before infinity. Infinity isn't affected. Focus was set on the red tiles below. I can reproduce this consistently, when you first focus to infinity and then shift focus on red tiles.

9b27e41c508146d7ace6c0f993c29970.jpg

You can see that the beige tiles (at the bottom of the photo) are most in focus instead. That is some 10 metres away from the red tiles I focused on.

9c9a38b18e5c42dd941b92113499c9f0.jpg

Meanwhile, you can see the sharpness difference with AF-C.

Still unable to reproduce on Sony 50mm f1.8. Can you tell me--which aperture, NTSC or PAL, how far away is the focus distance? EVF or viewfinder?
I checked the SEL50F18 just like I did with my Sigma 30/1.4, Infinity distance, f/2, NTSC, Live View Effect enabled (my usual mode), several tries switching between using EVF and LCD for AF with EVF showing the missed focus. I didn't check different apertures since the images at f/2 told me what I wanted to know.
 
Last edited:
I am trying my luck to reach out to Sigma in Singapore, though their contact form does not seem to be working. If you guys could send an email to Sigma in your country, perhaps we can bring this to their attention?

I drafted this:
Hi Sigma,

I am writing in today to report an issue with autofocus accuracy at f/5.6 on Sigma 16mm f/1.4.

Previously, reports of focus inaccuracy have been reported at the f/2 to f/2.8 aperture range, only in AF-S in EVF mode, in various forums. One of Sigma's offices overseas apparently said it is an issue with fast prime lens on Sony bodies and happens on Sony lenses as well (which thus far I am unable to replicate).

However, upon further investigation, it seems that this focus issue also happens at aperture f/5.6 as well, but this time only when using Live View to focus. It does not happen at f/5 or f/6.3 or if AF-C is used. The focus inaccuracy also happens at further distances near infinity infinity (note: infinity focus itself is accurate).

Steps to reproduce accurately:
- Set aperture to f/5.6, focus mode AF-S, center point focus, camera mode to PAL
- Focus on something at infinity first (i.e. something very far away)
- Next, focus on something nearer (with good contrast preferably, to rule out other variables)

If you are able to replicate the issue, you would see that whatever is in front of the focus region (i.e. areas towards infinity) get soft very quickly, while the back region (i.e. closer to you) is more in focus. This suggests a back focus issue.

As I do not experience this on any Sony lens, I am more inclined to believe that it is an issue with Sigma 16mm f/1.4.

Another member has also managed to reproduce this issue, and his test results are quite clear here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60970314

Notice he mentioned he 'focused at infinity', though I am more inclined to believe he focused right before infinity as I experience the issue not at infinity, but slightly before.

Appreciate if you could escalate this issue to Sigma engineers in Japan to resolve this.
 
I checked the SEL50F18 just like I did with my Sigma 30/1.4 and Sigma 16/1.4, Infinity distance, f/2, NTSC, Live View Effect enabled (my usual mode), several tries switching between using EVF and LCD for AF with EVF showing the missed focus. I didn't check different apertures since the images at f/2 told me what I wanted to know.
 
Last edited:
I checked the SEL50F18 just like I did with my Sigma 30/1.4 and Sigma 16/1.4, Infinity distance, f/2, NTSC, Live View Effect enabled (my usual mode), several tries switching between using EVF and LCD for AF with EVF showing the missed focus. I didn't check different apertures since the images at f/2 told me what I wanted to know.
Thanks. Can you post a sample photo if possible? Been trying to replicate with your parameters but no go. Maybe my infinity isn't far enough.

16mm issue at f/5.6 -- seems to be mitigated by focusing at Release Priority in AF-S. Seems to solve the issue.
 
I checked the SEL50F18 just like I did with my Sigma 30/1.4 and Sigma 16/1.4, Infinity distance, f/2, NTSC, Live View Effect enabled (my usual mode), several tries switching between using EVF and LCD for AF with EVF showing the missed focus. I didn't check different apertures since the images at f/2 told me what I wanted to know.
Thanks. Can you post a sample photo if possible? Been trying to replicate with your parameters but no go. Maybe my infinity isn't far enough.
I don't save test images and I don't post images to the 'net. However I just did a quick try using the SEL50F18 indoors (it's night here now) at f/2 at a distance of about 3 feet and with AF-S and using EVF then LCD to focus and using AF-C and EVF to focus. All three images were somewhat soft, too close to call any of them sharper than the others. I tried it several times with the same result.

I also tried my Sigma 16/1.4 at the same distance and parameters. AF-S with EVF only was soft but not as soft as all of the SEL50F18 images, the 16/1.4 using LCD and the AF-C/EVF images were fine and much sharper than any of the SEL50F18 images.

Maybe I have a weak 50/1.8. I may try at infinity again tomorrow...or not.
16mm issue at f/5.6 -- seems to be mitigated by focusing at Release Priority in AF-S. Seems to solve the issue.
I gave that a quick try using f/2 and it seemed to make matters worse with focusing by AF-S/LCD being as soft as AF-S/EVF focusing, AF-C/EVF focus was fine.

This issue is becoming too tedious for me to bother with. I'll just stick with AF-C and not worry about it.
 
Last edited:
I went outside to a more open area to test again. Strange thing is that now I notice, even at f2.8, there is still focus inaccuracy with setting effect set to OFF. this happens only at further distances. At close distances the camera seems to work fone. With setting effect off. This means perhaps the issue is not resolved completely...
 
The mentioned reply from Sigma doesn't really cover the issue. They talk about a random issue that happens if you focus from close to infinity and can be fixed by refocusing. The issue we are talking about is systematic and happens in 90%+ of the cases. Refocusing doesn't help. They say it's a Sony problem and that this is happening with fast Sony lenses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anything like this about Sony lenses.

I tried some of the workarounds and using AF-C works best. Turning the Live View Preview to Off doesn't completely eliminate the problem at f/2.8 in my case. It happens less often, but it's still there. Setting AF-S Priority to Release does help a bit as well. But again, it only reduces the problem, though the f/5.6 problem seems to be gone with the release priority.

The "Live View Preview Off" workaround does work better in lower light situations. That's because of the focusing behaviour of the Sony A6XXX cameras.

With "Live View Preview On" the setted aperture translates 1:1 in mechanical aperture movements, like a manual lens. It also stays in this position for focusing, resulting in slow focus and noisy image in low light situation with stopped down apertures.

With "Live View Preview Off" the aperture constantly changes depending on the lighting conditions. It also stays in this position for focusing. Only after pressing the shutter button the mechanical shutter is set to your selected aperture. That means, the camera uses fast apertures in low light situations and not so fast apertures in daylight sitations. And at f/1.4 the Sigma AF works flawless with AF-S.

At least this is my explanation of the issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a setting where the cameras uses the fastest aperture only for focusing regardless of the setted aperture, like the Fujifilm cameras do. This would probably eliminate the problem.
Did further testing and my results correspond to yours (PAL mode). Some further observations:

F/2.8

With Setting Effect ON, the issue is most prominent when you focus on the same object multiple times. For example, if you focus at 30cm away, and then re-focus and shoot an object at 1m away, the first shot is generally in focus. However, subsequently, the second shot becomes slightly OOF, and the third shot becomes supremely OOF. Then, a pattern establishes where the fourth shot is slightly better, the fifth is worse, so on and so forth.

With Setting Effect OFF, the issue is a little opposite from Setting Effect ON. When I focus at 30cm away, and then re-focus and shoot an object at 1m away, the first shot tends to be slightly OOF. The second shot onwards then becomes properly focused. However, this is my experience only on a close target. I tried focusing on something about ~600m away today, and Setting Effect OFF repeatedly missed focus still.

F/5.6

Can reproduce the same issue, unless focus priority is set to Release. Strange.

Conclusion

- Setting Effect OFF doesn't solve the problem completely
- Sure-fire fix is to use AF-C instead of AF-S. Use BBF if you want AF-S-like behaviour
- Alternatively, set Focus Priority to Release and don't use the EVF in situations where you really need AF-S.

Real-life manifestations

Armed with this knowledge, I dug through my Lightroom catalogue for some photographs shot at these apertures. There was this one photograph that I shot at f/5.6, AF-S on a holiday trip a few months ago with my previous A6000 of a back alley in Bangkok. Loved the picture, but was disappointed when I reached home to discover that the photo was slightly soft. Looking back, I suspect now that the AF behaviour was the underlying cause.

Resolution

I have no idea how we can get either Sigma or Sony to fix this. Sigma's support operates on a per-country basis. Presumably, bugs can only be fixed in Sigma Japan. Short of someone knowing Japanese, I wonder if the problem can be fixed at all.

Reaching Sony, too, is difficult especially when this is a third-party lens. So far, some have claimed they discover the issue on their Sony lens too, but there's no evidence.
 
Conclusion

- Setting Effect OFF doesn't solve the problem completely
- Sure-fire fix is to use AF-C instead of AF-S. Use BBF if you want AF-S-like behaviour
That's what I've been doing all along, it works perfectly.
- Alternatively, set Focus Priority to Release and don't use the EVF in situations where you really need AF-S.
As I noted previously, I tried it and it didn't really fix it with EVF or LCD.
 
I went outside to a more open area to test again. Strange thing is that now I notice, even at f2.8, there is still focus inaccuracy with setting effect set to OFF. this happens only at further distances. At close distances the camera seems to work fone. With setting effect off. This means perhaps the issue is not resolved completely...
Agree with your findings! Just retested with flexible spot medium on a stained glass window at quite a far distance away. F2.8, PAL.

1. AF-S, setting effect ON. Out of focus

2. AF-C, setting effect ON, Perfect focus

3. AF-S, setting effect OFF, Out of focus

Then, to check in case of any focus shift (since I believe setting effect OFF focuses wide open?)

4. Manual focus at F1.4, Perfect focus

5. Changed aperture to F2.8 and hit shutter without refocusing, still in perfect focus. Hence no focus shift.

Retested on the 30/1.4 at f2 on same stained glass window and also found that AF-S, setting effect OFF was Out of Focus.

I also realised that manual focussing with the 16/1.4 lens is not very sensitive? Really weird, it kind of jumps in steps so I can’t make very very fine adjustments. The 30/1.4 on latest firmware doesn’t have this issue.

Conclusion - AF-C still the safest at wide apertures...
 
Last edited:
I went outside to a more open area to test again. Strange thing is that now I notice, even at f2.8, there is still focus inaccuracy with setting effect set to OFF. this happens only at further distances. At close distances the camera seems to work fone. With setting effect off. This means perhaps the issue is not resolved completely...
Agree with your findings! Just retested with flexible spot medium on a stained glass window at quite a far distance away. F2.8, PAL.

1. AF-S, setting effect ON. Out of focus

2. AF-C, setting effect ON, Perfect focus

3. AF-S, setting effect OFF, Out of focus

Then, to check in case of any focus shift (since I believe setting effect OFF focuses wide open?)

4. Manual focus at F1.4, Perfect focus

5. Changed aperture to F2.8 and hit shutter without refocusing, still in perfect focus. Hence no focus shift.

Retested on the 30/1.4 at f2 on same stained glass window and also found that AF-S, setting effect OFF was Out of Focus.

I also realised that manual focussing with the 16/1.4 lens is not very sensitive? Really weird, it kind of jumps in steps so I can’t make very very fine adjustments. The 30/1.4 on latest firmware doesn’t have this issue.

Conclusion - AF-C still the safest at wide apertures...
Yes, that seems to be the conclusion. I also realise that yes, live view also manifests the problem at far distances, not just EVF.

But it's kinda strange... Because I don't remember experiencing this a few weeks ago. Or maybe I just shot one shot and saw it was in focus and never tried again.

Edit: just realised that the f2.8 live view issue only happens when focus priority is set to release. Which is opposite of that at f5.6. LOL. seems like lots of things need to be considered.
 
Last edited:
I went outside to a more open area to test again. Strange thing is that now I notice, even at f2.8, there is still focus inaccuracy with setting effect set to OFF. this happens only at further distances. At close distances the camera seems to work fone. With setting effect off. This means perhaps the issue is not resolved completely...
Agree with your findings! Just retested with flexible spot medium on a stained glass window at quite a far distance away. F2.8, PAL.

1. AF-S, setting effect ON. Out of focus

2. AF-C, setting effect ON, Perfect focus

3. AF-S, setting effect OFF, Out of focus

Then, to check in case of any focus shift (since I believe setting effect OFF focuses wide open?)

4. Manual focus at F1.4, Perfect focus

5. Changed aperture to F2.8 and hit shutter without refocusing, still in perfect focus. Hence no focus shift.

Retested on the 30/1.4 at f2 on same stained glass window and also found that AF-S, setting effect OFF was Out of Focus.

I also realised that manual focussing with the 16/1.4 lens is not very sensitive? Really weird, it kind of jumps in steps so I can’t make very very fine adjustments. The 30/1.4 on latest firmware doesn’t have this issue.

Conclusion - AF-C still the safest at wide apertures...
Yes, that seems to be the conclusion. I also realise that yes, live view also manifests the problem at far distances, not just EVF.

But it's kinda strange... Because I don't remember experiencing this a few weeks ago. Or maybe I just shot one shot and saw it was in focus and never tried again.
OK I just did more tests on the same stained glass window:

F2.8, LCD:

1. AF-S vs 2. AF-C: the AF-C image looks perfect. The AF-S image looks in focus, but I see a slight softness that is visible over the whole image only when zooming 1:1 and doing direct comparison. Interestingly I see a slight contrast loss in the AF-S image vs the AF-C image even without zooming in, and I don't think the lighting changed in those few seconds (the exposure is the same and Brightness Value of 9.7 vs 9.66).

F5.6, LCD:

3. AF-S vs 4. AF-C: the AF-C image looks perfect. The AF-S image has a slight softness over the whole image when viewed at 1:2, which becomes obvious when zoomed at 1:1 (much softer than the F2.8 LCD shot, but much less out of focus than the F2.8 AF-S EVF shot ). Same slight contrast loss as I observed at F2.8.

Conclusion: AF-C still the safest :)

Unfortunately I can't post these images as they may reveal where I live a bit too close for comfort.
 
Last edited:
Conclusion

- Setting Effect OFF doesn't solve the problem completely
- Sure-fire fix is to use AF-C instead of AF-S. Use BBF if you want AF-S-like behaviour
That's what I've been doing all along, it works perfectly.
- Alternatively, set Focus Priority to Release and don't use the EVF in situations where you really need AF-S.
As I noted previously, I tried it and it didn't really fix it with EVF or LCD.
Just wondering, is your focus priority set to Release instead of balance emphasis? That might be the issue.
 
Here is an example of the focus problem at f/5.6 which I could find on both copy of the lenses I tested, though the second one was better and it did happen less often.

In the frame center, the focus difference is barely visible. But the border sharpness of the EVF focused image is much better.

100% center crop: left - EVF focused, right - display focused
100% center crop: left - EVF focused, right - display focused

100% border crop: left - EVF focused, right - display focused
100% border crop: left - EVF focused, right - display focused
Does this only happen when focusing at infinity? I can't reproduce this issue at f5.6. which camera model?


Sony A6300. It doesn't only happen at infinity. But it does seem to be gone at very close distances.
 
This is all very interesting and perhaps a bit disturbing. However, with wide angle lenses generally focus isn't usually a major issue due to depth of field. while the Sigma 16 is a very fast lens and there are, of course, exceptions, for most applications focus is simply not going to be an issue. If, on the other hand, the Sony 50mm f1.8 exhibits similar focus issues, that IS a serious problem.
The problem is that it is an issue for landscape, because it is also happening at f/5.6 or even other apertures in AF-S. It only slightly misses the focus, which causes soft edges.

I now use BBF with AF-C for landscape if battery life matters. I set AF/MF button to Eye AF and AEL button to AF On. So I don't have to refocus every image and I'm still flexible if I want to focus closer. Focus and recompose is possible as well.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top