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Canon CEO: 'we will go on the offensive... [mirrorless]

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rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
...to try it if Canon makes it with a standard EF mount. The EF-M lenses are not for me.
Click to expand...
At the least they will make it work with an adapter.
Click to expand...
But if the adapter came with the camera and performed seamlessly, I'd consider it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they key is that it would need to perform seamlessly. 1 to 1 with a standard EF mount.
Click to expand...
If they use native EF mount on the mirrors body then the camera body will be DSLR large in size.
Click to expand...
No.

if they put DSLR ergonomics on the camera, then it will be DSLR sized.
Member said:
In order for Canon to do this right they need to make L glass EF-M lenses.
Click to expand...
that is not doing it right.
Member said:
This in turn will upset the shooting public like it did when Canon forced the lens change from film (FD mount) to digital (EF mount) but fast-forward from that time and we all agree it was the right move despite the disruption.
Click to expand...
canon had slipped to third spot in marketshare, they are in a totally different spot now. they are the one dominant camera manufacturer.
Member said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
highly unlikely and see above comment.

EF mount full frame can be made smaller than the SL1 if you are willing to remove the ergonomics.

they would also be throwing out their entire lens patent portfolio.
Click to expand...
Sorry to complete disagree but this has everything to do with Flange Focal Distance and less with ergonomics.

For detailed explanation please visit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
Click to expand...
yawns.

sorry to disagree, but an SL1 sized full frame camera would be just as small or smaller than a full frame Sony.

the only difference that size dictates is the base ergonomics, which is why a 5D is larger than a 6D, it has to have more room for the controls that the 5D has.

It's also why the APS-C cameras have cameras all the way from the 4000D/SL2 sized cameras to the 7D Mark II sized.

the grip takes up as much depth as the mount you are saving nothing on camera size going to a smaller mount other than making it thinner, which btw, adds it's own ergonomic issues because your fingers pinch between the lens and the grip.
Click to expand...
I've been wanting to mention that issue with potential pinching. But it just means you simply move the grip outward slightly. Not an unsolvable problem at all.
 
Last edited:
sceneIt said:
rrccad said:
Rick Knepper said:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/39439...the-offensive-in-the-mirrorless-camera-market

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
people are reading too much into this.

Asia is still the dominant market for mirrorless, canon would first be looking at achieving dominance there.

that doesn't mean high value full frame 3k units, but cheaper cameras and small cameras to take more of that market.

canon's already been quite successful in that market and it stands to reason they will continue to target that heavily

Also 50% marketshare only translates to a 2% gain from 48% which they had last year.
Click to expand...
"We will go on the offensive" sounds like they're taking their dicks out and starting a p***ing contest... I think that's why people are reading into it.
Click to expand...
it's a 2% market gain.

canon had a 70% increase in a quarter last year, they are well aware of mirrorless.
 
sceneIt said:
rrccad said:
Rick Knepper said:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/39439...the-offensive-in-the-mirrorless-camera-market

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
people are reading too much into this.

Asia is still the dominant market for mirrorless, canon would first be looking at achieving dominance there.

that doesn't mean high value full frame 3k units, but cheaper cameras and small cameras to take more of that market.

canon's already been quite successful in that market and it stands to reason they will continue to target that heavily

Also 50% marketshare only translates to a 2% gain from 48% which they had last year.
Click to expand...
BTW the last time a japanese guy said that I think it started WW2...
Click to expand...
LMAO
 
sceneIt said:
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
...to try it if Canon makes it with a standard EF mount. The EF-M lenses are not for me.
Click to expand...
At the least they will make it work with an adapter.
Click to expand...
But if the adapter came with the camera and performed seamlessly, I'd consider it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they key is that it would need to perform seamlessly. 1 to 1 with a standard EF mount.
Click to expand...
If they use native EF mount on the mirrors body then the camera body will be DSLR large in size.
Click to expand...
No.

if they put DSLR ergonomics on the camera, then it will be DSLR sized.
sceneIt said:
In order for Canon to do this right they need to make L glass EF-M lenses.
Click to expand...
that is not doing it right.
sceneIt said:
This in turn will upset the shooting public like it did when Canon forced the lens change from film (FD mount) to digital (EF mount) but fast-forward from that time and we all agree it was the right move despite the disruption.
Click to expand...
canon had slipped to third spot in marketshare, they are in a totally different spot now. they are the one dominant camera manufacturer.
sceneIt said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
highly unlikely and see above comment.

EF mount full frame can be made smaller than the SL1 if you are willing to remove the ergonomics.

they would also be throwing out their entire lens patent portfolio.
Click to expand...
Sorry to complete disagree but this has everything to do with Flange Focal Distance and less with ergonomics.

For detailed explanation please visit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
Click to expand...
yawns.

sorry to disagree, but an SL1 sized full frame camera would be just as small or smaller than a full frame Sony.

the only difference that size dictates is the base ergonomics, which is why a 5D is larger than a 6D, it has to have more room for the controls that the 5D has.

It's also why the APS-C cameras have cameras all the way from the 4000D/SL2 sized cameras to the 7D Mark II sized.

the grip takes up as much depth as the mount you are saving nothing on camera size going to a smaller mount other than making it thinner, which btw, adds it's own ergonomic issues because your fingers pinch between the lens and the grip.
Click to expand...
I've been wanting to mention that issue with potential pinching. But it just means you simply move the grip outward slightly. Not an unsolvable problem at all.
Click to expand...
except it's lens by lens dependent. with the mount the way it is with a larger registration distance it's fixed regardless of lens.
 
sceneIt said:
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
...to try it if Canon makes it with a standard EF mount. The EF-M lenses are not for me.
Click to expand...
At the least they will make it work with an adapter.
Click to expand...
But if the adapter came with the camera and performed seamlessly, I'd consider it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they key is that it would need to perform seamlessly. 1 to 1 with a standard EF mount.
Click to expand...
If they use native EF mount on the mirrors body then the camera body will be DSLR large in size.
Click to expand...
No.

if they put DSLR ergonomics on the camera, then it will be DSLR sized.
sceneIt said:
In order for Canon to do this right they need to make L glass EF-M lenses.
Click to expand...
that is not doing it right.
sceneIt said:
This in turn will upset the shooting public like it did when Canon forced the lens change from film (FD mount) to digital (EF mount) but fast-forward from that time and we all agree it was the right move despite the disruption.
Click to expand...
canon had slipped to third spot in marketshare, they are in a totally different spot now. they are the one dominant camera manufacturer.
sceneIt said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
highly unlikely and see above comment.

EF mount full frame can be made smaller than the SL1 if you are willing to remove the ergonomics.

they would also be throwing out their entire lens patent portfolio.
Click to expand...
If they do a new mount with an adapter that matches functionality 100% what's the difference? They can keep their portfolio, keep existing lineup of lenses, and start on a new lineup. It's probably child's play for them to adapt the existing lineup to a new flange focal distance.
Click to expand...
100% functionality IMO also includes robustness, lack of movement and water sealing when using the biggest lenses in the most arduous conditions. In effect the adapter needs to extend the body out to the lens.

It would need to be very solidly built of all metal, water proof with a proper O-ring, and lockable with some sort of locking screw/mechanism to remove all looseness.

I couldn't see sports and wildlife Pros accepting and trusting the usual style adapter with their 600mm F4.

Peter
 
sceneIt said:
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
...to try it if Canon makes it with a standard EF mount. The EF-M lenses are not for me.
Click to expand...
At the least they will make it work with an adapter.
Click to expand...
But if the adapter came with the camera and performed seamlessly, I'd consider it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they key is that it would need to perform seamlessly. 1 to 1 with a standard EF mount.
Click to expand...
If they use native EF mount on the mirrors body then the camera body will be DSLR large in size.
Click to expand...
No.

if they put DSLR ergonomics on the camera, then it will be DSLR sized.
sceneIt said:
In order for Canon to do this right they need to make L glass EF-M lenses.
Click to expand...
that is not doing it right.
sceneIt said:
This in turn will upset the shooting public like it did when Canon forced the lens change from film (FD mount) to digital (EF mount) but fast-forward from that time and we all agree it was the right move despite the disruption.
Click to expand...
canon had slipped to third spot in marketshare, they are in a totally different spot now. they are the one dominant camera manufacturer.
sceneIt said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
highly unlikely and see above comment.

EF mount full frame can be made smaller than the SL1 if you are willing to remove the ergonomics.

they would also be throwing out their entire lens patent portfolio.
Click to expand...
If they do a new mount with an adapter that matches functionality 100% what's the difference? They can keep their portfolio, keep existing lineup of lenses, and start on a new lineup. It's probably child's play for them to adapt the existing lineup to a new flange focal distance.
Click to expand...
An adapter would be necessary for the EF lenses if they shrink the body size due to no mirror inside the body to compensate for the shorter Flange Focal Distance.
 
Last edited:
ikolbyi said:
Is it too late?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think so, given the market shares.
ikolbyi said:
I started replacing my older or higher aperture Canon L glass with Sigma and to be honest I can't tell the difference between the lenses image quality unless I 'pixel peep', but that is not real world use. Prints are indistinguishable.
Click to expand...
ok.
ikolbyi said:
So same quality at a lower price point. Unless Canon does something truly amazing both in the body and lenses I can't justify their price premium for the label to say "Canon".
Click to expand...
ok, you can decide what you want to do for yourself, but you are an anecdote, we are talking about statistical evidence. Sadly no single one of us matter that much, just because you've decided to move to Sony doesn't mean they've lost so much market to Sony that they should just close up shop.
 
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
rrccad said:
ikolbyi said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
sceneIt said:
Silvex said:
...to try it if Canon makes it with a standard EF mount. The EF-M lenses are not for me.
Click to expand...
At the least they will make it work with an adapter.
Click to expand...
But if the adapter came with the camera and performed seamlessly, I'd consider it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they key is that it would need to perform seamlessly. 1 to 1 with a standard EF mount.
Click to expand...
If they use native EF mount on the mirrors body then the camera body will be DSLR large in size.
Click to expand...
No.

if they put DSLR ergonomics on the camera, then it will be DSLR sized.
Member said:
In order for Canon to do this right they need to make L glass EF-M lenses.
Click to expand...
that is not doing it right.
Member said:
This in turn will upset the shooting public like it did when Canon forced the lens change from film (FD mount) to digital (EF mount) but fast-forward from that time and we all agree it was the right move despite the disruption.
Click to expand...
canon had slipped to third spot in marketshare, they are in a totally different spot now. they are the one dominant camera manufacturer.
Member said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
highly unlikely and see above comment.

EF mount full frame can be made smaller than the SL1 if you are willing to remove the ergonomics.

they would also be throwing out their entire lens patent portfolio.
Click to expand...
Sorry to complete disagree but this has everything to do with Flange Focal Distance and less with ergonomics.

For detailed explanation please visit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
Click to expand...
yawns.

sorry to disagree, but an SL1 sized full frame camera would be just as small or smaller than a full frame Sony.

the only difference that size dictates is the base ergonomics, which is why a 5D is larger than a 6D, it has to have more room for the controls that the 5D has.

It's also why the APS-C cameras have cameras all the way from the 4000D/SL2 sized cameras to the 7D Mark II sized.

the grip takes up as much depth as the mount you are saving nothing on camera size going to a smaller mount other than making it thinner, which btw, adds it's own ergonomic issues because your fingers pinch between the lens and the grip.
Click to expand...
I will always take ergonomics over size. I just wish weight could be reduced, we need anti grav devices :)
 
Battersea said:
rrccad said:
sorry to disagree, but an SL1 sized full frame camera would be just as small or smaller than a full frame Sony.

the only difference that size dictates is the base ergonomics, which is why a 5D is larger than a 6D, it has to have more room for the controls that the 5D has.

It's also why the APS-C cameras have cameras all the way from the 4000D/SL2 sized cameras to the 7D Mark II sized.

the grip takes up as much depth as the mount you are saving nothing on camera size going to a smaller mount other than making it thinner, which btw, adds it's own ergonomic issues because your fingers pinch between the lens and the grip.
Click to expand...
I will always take ergonomics over size. I just wish weight could be reduced, we need anti grav devices :)
Click to expand...
well removing the penta prism and mirror assembly from a 5d chassis would save considerable weight i'd imagine.
 
rrccad said:
well removing the penta prism and mirror assembly from a 5d chassis would save considerable weight i'd imagine.
Click to expand...
True, but add back in the weight of the EVF screen and electronics, it's not weightless either. And none of that will save on the weight of a 100-400. :)
 
ikolbyi said:
If they use native EF mount on the mirrors body then the camera body will be DSLR large in size. In order for Canon to do this right they need to make L glass EF-M lenses.
Click to expand...
This presumes that Canon thinks its professional clientele wish to switch to mirrorless. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest this is the case. "L" lenses aren't made for the amateurs like us who populate the DPR forums; it's made for the pros. Amateurs like us are a tiny, tiny segment of the amateur Canon customer base.
 
ikolbyi said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
I hope they'd offer at least some bodies with traditional DSLR body sizes. Something like 5D mk III is just about perfect for my hands, whereas a Sony full-frame mirrorless felt uncomfortably small when I tried one. Sure, to some extent it's a matter of what you are used to, but people do have a large variety of different-sized hands so minimizing the camera body size isn't convenient for all users.
 
Mika Y. said:
ikolbyi said:
The days of EF mount are coming to an end due to mirrorless if we wish to have small camera bodies over traditional DSLR sizes.
Click to expand...
I hope they'd offer at least some bodies with traditional DSLR body sizes. Something like 5D mk III is just about perfect for my hands, whereas a Sony full-frame mirrorless felt uncomfortably small when I tried one. Sure, to some extent it's a matter of what you are used to, but people do have a large variety of different-sized hands so minimizing the camera body size isn't convenient for all users.
Click to expand...
see this comparison, 5D4 vs Panasonic G9. And the G9's sensor is only 1/4 the size.
Compare the grip sizes - hardly any difference

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Peter
 
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