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Photographers killed in helicopter crash

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BAK

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Jared Polin (Fro knows photo) has a sad but detailed Youtube story about the helicopter crash in the East River that killed five photographers.

He has specific information about helicopter harnesses that is important to anyone shooting from a helicopter with an open door.


BAK
 
Thanks for posting that. We used to fly quiet a bit, and I always gave thought as to how to undo and escape when using a harness.. but combine this with a overwater flight and things become even more complex, unless you have done some training in a dunk tank, you will probably be totally unprepared for the inversion.
 
I'd guess the odds of successfully deploying a knife mid-crash are fairly slim, at least without hours of real-life practice training.
 
Bobthearch said:
I'd guess the odds of successfully deploying a knife mid-crash are fairly slim, at least without hours of real-life practice training.
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Joe Pa said:
Bobthearch said:
I'd guess the odds of successfully deploying a knife mid-crash are fairly slim, at least without hours of real-life practice training.

--
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I'm sure the temperature of the water didn't help either.
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1) you have five people who likely have never been in a helicopter before.

2) they are tied into the aircraft with a complex harness (which in general is a good thing).

3) They only received scant training about what to do in case the helicopter goes down.

4) as the helicopter does go down the people start to panic. There is no buddy system established so that the passengers can help each other get out of the aircraft

5) any of the scant training goes out of mind as the helicopter does go down.

6) for reasons unknown the Pontoon system does not work and the top heavy helicopter at this point tips over.

7) as the helicopter flips over and the current starts pushing the sinking wreck along as complete panic compounded by total spatial disorientation ((what you expect to be up is now down and the aircraft is filling with dark cold water) takes over the people in the passenger compartment.

I have done professional shoots out of a helicopter several times , with the doors off and never with more than three people in the passenger compartment and those were in either in a civilian version of the UH-1 "Huey", Long Ranger, or Jet Ranger helicopters.

Even a fellow professional photographer friend of mine who has gone through HUET (Helicopter Underwater Escape Training https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Underwater_Escape_Training) course twice (he does a lot of work photographing offshore oil rigs) thinks that he would not have survived this crash given the circumstances.

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Ellis Vener
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Ellis Vener said:
Even a fellow professional photographer friend of mine who has gone through HUET (Helicopter Underwater Escape Training https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Underwater_Escape_Training) course twice (he does a lot of work photographing offshore oil rigs) thinks that he would not have survived this crash given the circumstances.
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We don't even know what sort of training they received. And it's unclear to me what sort of harnesses they were in, and whether those harnesses even have quick-release detachments (which would have their own risks and hazards).

Keep in mind also that NYC is one of the most unfriendly and restrictive places for carrying even a simple pocketknife. Unless there were emergency knives onboard, it's unlikely any of those guys had one.

And even if you were free of the harnesses, you wouldn't last long in the NY Harbor in winter.

And all of that is assuming you didn't suffer a fatal or crippling injury during the crash itself.

I work in underground coal mines frequently. And we get a lot of safety training. But sometimes you wonder...
 
Bobthearch said:
Keep in mind also that NYC is one of the most unfriendly and restrictive places for carrying even a simple pocketknife. Unless there were emergency knives onboard, it's unlikely any of those guys had one.
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As an experienced off-shore sailor who has spent weeks tethered in, I am curious about the harnesses the helicopter uses that are so complicated to release. Race car drivers and mountain climbers are probably scratching their heads, too.

But all experienced sailors carry a knife JIC--either a sheath knife or a one-hand knife. New York makes the mere ownership of any knife you can open with one hand a felony, so I would have left my one-hander at home and probably died, too.
 
Bobthearch said:
Ellis Vener said:
Even a fellow professional photographer friend of mine who has gone through HUET (Helicopter Underwater Escape Training https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Underwater_Escape_Training) course twice (he does a lot of work photographing offshore oil rigs) thinks that he would not have survived this crash given the circumstances.
Click to expand...
We don't even know what sort of training they received. And it's unclear to me what sort of harnesses they were in, and whether those harnesses even have quick-release detachments (which would have their own risks and hazards).
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actually we do know that. Several previous clients of the business have spoken with reporters from a variety of news organizations about it
Bobthearch said:
Keep in mind also that NYC is one of the most unfriendly and restrictive places for carrying even a simple pocketknife. Unless there were emergency knives onboard, it's unlikely any of those guys had one.
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There were emergency knives in each harness. But we’re they given training and dod they practice accessing and using them; very, very doubtful.
Bobthearch said:
And even if you were free of the harnesses, you wouldn't last long in the NY Harbor in winter.
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especially if you were thrashing around in a small crowded compartment that had flipped upside down and was filled with cold dark water.
Bobthearch said:
And all of that is assuming you didn't suffer a fatal or crippling injury during the crash itself.

I work in underground coal mines frequently. And we get a lot of safety training. But sometimes you wonder...
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i agree. I haven’t photographed in mines but I have gone through multiple training sessions for photographing in petroleum refineries.
Bobthearch said:
--
Personal non-commercial websites with no ads or tracking:
Local photography: http://ratonphotos.com/
Travel and photography: http://placesandpics.com/
Special-interest photos: http://ghosttowns.placesandpics.com/
Click to expand...
--
Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram @therealellisv
 
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gscotten said:
Bobthearch said:
Keep in mind also that NYC is one of the most unfriendly and restrictive places for carrying even a simple pocketknife. Unless there were emergency knives onboard, it's unlikely any of those guys had one.
Click to expand...
As an experienced off-shore sailor who has spent weeks tethered in, I am curious about the harnesses the helicopter uses that are so complicated to release. Race car drivers and mountain climbers are probably scratching their heads, too.

But all experienced sailors carry a knife JIC--either a sheath knife or a one-hand knife. New York makes the mere ownership of any knife you can open with one hand a felony, so I would have left my one-hander at home and probably died, too.

--
George
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The design for the harness and hook used in a helo in my experience is the same as common working at height gear, So it is rear entry which is then secured at the rear and attached to the tether with a screw gate carbeener...

Its designed to make it as difficult as possible to become untethered either on purpose or accidentally.

The build of the harness also tends to be much heavier than a yacht harness.

the tether is then attached to the helo with a second screw gate carbeener.

my harness for the boat is secured with a front buckle which is pretty easy to undo, and of course the tether hooks are attached at the front and are easy to undo one handed... at either end... the boat harness is designed to allow us to move around as freely as possible, and easily dettach/attach the tether if going below... quite the opposite of the gear in the helo which is about keeping us in a small space with zero chance of falling out...

i found the helo harness disconcerting after spending a lot of time sailing... I have no problem with that gear in a cherry picker or on a building, but I didn’t like the fact that getting free of the machine in the event of an accident or emergency would be quiet difficult.

i think it’s a poor design for use on a helo... but I also would not want to rely on the harness I have on the boat... falling out on the boat is not as definitively bad for your health as falling from the helicopter...

--
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Striving hard to be the man that my dog thinks I am.
 
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There was lots of info on the harnesses. Did you follow the link I provided?

BAK
 
NottsPhoto said:
i think it’s a poor design for use on a helo... but I also would not want to rely on the harness I have on the boat... falling out on the boat is not as definitively bad for your health as falling from the helicopter...
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Falling out of your sailboat when offshore at night is, for all practical purposes, as fatal as falling out of a helicopter at height.
 
gscotten said:
NottsPhoto said:
i think it’s a poor design for use on a helo... but I also would not want to rely on the harness I have on the boat... falling out on the boat is not as definitively bad for your health as falling from the helicopter...
Click to expand...
Falling out of your sailboat when offshore at night is, for all practical purposes, as fatal as falling out of a helicopter at height.
Click to expand...
 
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