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Can Canon and Nikon compete with Sony on the mirrorless market?

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competition is good for us , brings down prices and gets us more features
 
kamituel said:
C47 said:
I just read this:

https://www.43rumors.com/compeition-news-canon-confirms-they-will-go-all-in-on-mirrorless/

Pretty late I think. Imo CaNikon will have a hard time competing with Sony. What do you guys think?

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Sony has an advantage of being first and of being at a 3rd generation of mirrorless already.
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Although Canon hasn't produced any FF mirrorless, they do have experience in the mirrorless arena with the M series.
kamituel said:
Canon and Nikon have an advantage of huge user base that is invested into their lenses, flashes and other accessories. Those folks would be, on average, inclined to stay with their current camera maker. E.g. let's assume Nikon's mirrorless works very well with Nikkor lenses and their flashes. Oh, maybe even uses the same battery as d850. That'd be a huge incentive for Nikon shooters to stay with the brand. Of course the longer they have to wait for CaNikon FF mirrorless, the more of them will jump to Sony, or other brands.
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Lenses will be huge but most importantly will be their innovation. If CanNikon are always playing catch-up, the market perception will be that they are followers. Does Japanese culture appreciate being a follower of established design or is it far more desirable to be a leader of design?
kamituel said:
Overall, I sure hope they have a hard time competing with Sony, as much as I hope Sony will have hard time competing with them.



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aarif said:
competition is good for us , brings down prices and gets us more features
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I'm aware of that. But the question is if CaNikon can be a real competitor any time soon. They have to come up with something special if they don't want to lose customers in the future.
 
Canikon says they will announce something in 2018.

Announce and ship can often be very different timeframes. As it is the clock keeps ticking with no competitive responses from Canikon and they just keep getting further behind.

All they have going for them at this point is their massive user bases that often have blind faith in releases.
 
Agree. At this point one of them would have to offer pretty radical to catch Sony in the first instance. I cannot see Nikon competing in Video but Canon can. In stills, Nikon yes.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Many Nikon shooters would be happy to a camera larger than Sony with bigger controls and ergonomics. Being able to use existing lenses would be critical for Nikon in the short term.

Edit: It just occurred to me that one thing they could do is drop the Vids, provide great connectivity (???) and come in with a Fx body bigger but similar weight to the orig a7/a7r (or even D750). If the f1.8 series worked well/fully with adapter they might have a market. Leave the big lenses to the DSLRs.

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No

No IBIS, no 4K, no blindingly fast sensor readouts. And they will have to develop new lens lineups without the benefit of a growing market. Canikon are the ones absorbing the DSLR collapse.

Both will use MILCs as a means to cut costs from their stagnating low end DSLR lines. Expect the next Rebels/D3xxx replacements to be MILCs without viewfinders.
 
I think it will depend on what they end up releasing into the market.
 
tommiejeep said:
Agree. At this point one of them would have to offer pretty radical to catch Sony in the first instance. I cannot see Nikon competing in Video but Canon can. In stills, Nikon yes.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Many Nikon shooters would be happy to a camera larger than Sony with bigger controls and ergonomics. Being able to use existing lenses would be critical for Nikon in the short term.

Edit: It just occurred to me that one thing they could do is drop the Vids, provide great connectivity (???) and come in with a Fx body bigger but similar weight to the orig a7/a7r (or even D750). If the f1.8 series worked well/fully with adapter they might have a market. Leave the big lenses to the DSLRs.
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C47 said:
aarif said:
competition is good for us , brings down prices and gets us more features
Click to expand...
I'm aware of that. But the question is if CaNikon can be a real competitor any time soon. They have to come up with something special if they don't want to lose customers in the future.
Click to expand...
 
I think Canon can do it. They already have release 8 bodies and 7 lenses for APS-C - - Similar to Sony shortly before they announced the A7. Their EF mount was built with in-lens motors from day one, so adapting is easier for them than it was for Sony (LA-EA4 is not great) and in-fact they already have an adapter that sounds like it works well. Additionally Canon the Dual-Pixel AF system is well liked. The 18mm flange distance same as Sony, so any third party lenses ought to be easy to make for the Canon mount. On top of this Canon is a big company that could invest in a decent lens line up. Canon is like Sony in that it also uses it's lens mounts for video cameras, so they have even more uses for M-mount. If

I'm less sure about Nikon. They don't have even a APS-C mirrorless option currently, and it's 1-system is a smaller sensor, than even micro 4/3rds. They don't seem to have a on-sensor focusing system that works well and are a much smaller company than Canon.
 
I heard the Nikon 1 OSPDAF system is excellent, even with adapted F glass

Nikon just chooses not to leverage it for whatever reason.
 
Here are use of Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras, top10, at Flickr:

e12800fe93b54db29f803be7e6e767f9.jpg.png

09cdbaed33204f1a9e19840513de48da.jpg.png



eae1fcfaa40946baad801dca78b2e4ce.jpg.png

It looks like, still, Canon and then Nikon have a much larger userbase of ILCs than Sony. So, if they just do alright introducing an FF system, with decent lens adapters, they should do ok. Sony is gathering a following, but the issue is that less people are transiting from lower cameras to ILCs, as most are using phones, by a very large margin:

6fab467862e64badacd8575e21b99afb.jpg.png



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C47 said:
Pretty late I think.
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Sony has the head start, but history has shown that first is not always best once things get rolling. Anything can happen.
C47 said:
Imo CaNikon will have a hard time competing with Sony. What do you guys think?
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Those companies can compete with all other camera companies on any level they choose; so it depends on what they specifically choose to do.
 
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