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Buying 7Dm2 and 5d. Few questions.

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SteveAnderson

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Hi all,

After a ridiculous amount of pondering, I have decided on a 7Dm2 for everyday use, and a 5Dc for portraits and misc.

I returned the 6D. Great photos, but feels like half a camera. Returned the D750. Absolutely amazing camera but horrible skin tones.

Question about serial numbers: Which serial numbers should i avoid when buying the 7Dm2 if any. I have read the earlier versions had issues. I cant find any info on what the s/n stands for, how we can tell the build date?

Anything S/N wise to consider with the 5D?

Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer?

I am buying used from a good chain store in Japan. Many to choose from 7Dm2 and 5Dc.

Any advice on buying these specific bodies please.

Lenses i plan to buy: Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC, Tamron 100-400 VC.

Lens i will keep: efs 10-18mm

All advice welcome thank you,
 
I have not been following, but with your indulgence, I'll jump in.

RE: >>Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer? <<

I gather you've done a lot of thinking, but my newcomer brain asks, "Why does he need a different portrait camera when he has a 7D Mk II? What is his deliverable that can't be met with a 7D Mk II but can be met with and old 5D that he worries about being reliable?"

Various sources report the G2 version of the Tamron 24 - 70 is worth buying.

Regardless, now that you've settled on a course of action, go get some great pictures.

BAK
 
As regards the 7D2 I don't think it's as easy as avoiding certain serial numbers. Whilst it certain that a few people did have cameras that were either faulty or incorrectly setup at the factory there was also a lot of confusion caused by users not understanding the complicated focusing options, then there is the suspicion that Canon have incorporated improvements in the firmware updates that they haven't disclosed.

If it's any help my 7D2 purchased new in 2016 is serial number 223xxxxxx979 and that has always worked perfectly.
 
BAK said:
I have not been following, but with your indulgence, I'll jump in.

RE: >>Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer? <<

I gather you've done a lot of thinking, but my newcomer brain asks, "Why does he need a different portrait camera when he has a 7D Mk II? What is his deliverable that can't be met with a 7D Mk II but can be met with and old 5D that he worries about being reliable?"

Various sources report the G2 version of the Tamron 24 - 70 is worth buying.

Regardless, now that you've settled on a course of action, go get some great pictures.

BAK
Click to expand...
Hi BAK,

The 5D has better color tonality than the newer cameras, will have a different look with the 24-70/2.8 than on 7Dm2. My 50D is top 3 in SMI for best colors in outdoor lighting.(all brands)

I wouldnt feel the need to say that but it was just so noticeable when i started testing newer cameras. I had to learn why my 50D which didnt even review very well has such accurate and pleasing colors/tones.

After testing a D7200, D750, and 6D, is when i realized color isnt color if you know what i mean. Those old strong CFA cameras really do have better tonality. More noise, less DR, but for skin photos especially, far better color.

People seem to swear the old Nikon D700 has better color than the D750. I believe them now also. I spent hundreds of hours on these RAW files and they always have a weird digital/mannequin look comparatively.

For 450$, I think it is worth getting both cameras. But ive read over and over the mirrors fail. Looking for tips on what to look/listen for when buying one.

I have 60,000 photos with 50D but sold it, so as soon as i get these, i will be gone taking more photos!
 
Ray UK said:
As regards the 7D2 I don't think it's as easy as avoiding certain serial numbers. Whilst it certain that a few people did have cameras that were either faulty or incorrectly setup at the factory there was also a lot of confusion caused by users not understanding the complicated focusing options, then there is the suspicion that Canon have incorporated improvements in the firmware updates that they haven't disclosed.

If it's any help my 7D2 purchased new in 2016 is serial number 223xxxxxx979 and that has always worked perfectly.
Click to expand...
Hi Ray,

Thanks for the info, its helpful. Yes ive read about that possibly secret AF fixing firmware also.

I spent seriously a tonne of time and more mental power than i actually have, to come down to these 2 cameras, so this is the final step before buying.

One question about your AF: Does the one shot center focus point work down to -3ev as Canon states?

Seems that review sites said it wasnt focusing well in low light(-0.5 which is bad), but i have a feeling it was in iTR mode vs one shot and maybe that was affecting focus? Canon cant claim -3 but it only does -0.5 could they?

Its annoying that my buddies Rebel focuses to moon light and my 50D is long done bothering to try to AF.
 
Last edited:
SteveAnderson said:
Hi all,

After a ridiculous amount of pondering, I have decided on a 7Dm2 for everyday use, and a 5Dc
Click to expand...
5Dc? 🤔
SteveAnderson said:
for portraits and misc.

I returned the 6D. Great photos, but feels like half a camera. Returned the D750. Absolutely amazing camera but horrible skin tones.

Question about serial numbers: Which serial numbers should i avoid when buying the 7Dm2 if any. I have read the earlier versions had issues. I cant find any info on what the s/n stands for, how we can tell the build date?

Anything S/N wise to consider with the 5D?

Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer?

I am buying used from a good chain store in Japan. Many to choose from 7Dm2 and 5Dc.

Any advice on buying these specific bodies please.

Lenses i plan to buy: Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC, Tamron 100-400 VC.

Lens i will keep: efs 10-18mm

All advice welcome thank you,
Click to expand...
 
RedFox88 said:
SteveAnderson said:
Hi all,

After a ridiculous amount of pondering, I have decided on a 7Dm2 for everyday use, and a 5Dc
Click to expand...
5Dc? 🤔
RedFox88 said:
for portraits and misc.

I returned the 6D. Great photos, but feels like half a camera. Returned the D750. Absolutely amazing camera but horrible skin tones.

Question about serial numbers: Which serial numbers should i avoid when buying the 7Dm2 if any. I have read the earlier versions had issues. I cant find any info on what the s/n stands for, how we can tell the build date?

Anything S/N wise to consider with the 5D?

Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer?

I am buying used from a good chain store in Japan. Many to choose from 7Dm2 and 5Dc.

Any advice on buying these specific bodies please.

Lenses i plan to buy: Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC, Tamron 100-400 VC.

Lens i will keep: efs 10-18mm

All advice welcome thank you,
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
People seem to call the original 5D: 5D Classic = 5Dc.
 
I bought my 7D2 on a pre-release order, so I certainly have an early model, with now 180,000+ shots on it. The only issue I have had is that the LCD screen sometimes goes blank while zooming during image review, requires restarting the image review, but this is not a frequent problem. I did not send the camera to Canon as the problem was not repeatable on demand, and is more of an annoyance that a shooting problem. About a year ago, I met another guy who had the same intermittent problem with his 7D2, and his was also an early release model. Other than that, I think that early release 7D2 camera bodies are okay, at least with the ones I know about.

Orb . . .
 
SteveAnderson said:
One question about your AF: Does the one shot center focus point work down to -3ev as Canon states?

Seems that review sites said it wasnt focusing well in low light(-0.5 which is bad), but i have a feeling it was in iTR mode vs one shot and maybe that was affecting focus? Canon cant claim -3 but it only does -0.5 could they?

Its annoying that my buddies Rebel focuses to moon light and my 50D is long done bothering to try to AF.
Click to expand...
Well that was a bit of a game, I set up a target in a dark room and then lit the target by bouncing light from a torch onto a nearby wall, by careful adjustment of the position of the torch I could vary the light level.

I managed to get the 7D2 to focus down to -2.1 EV and by using the same lens on my 50D I got down to -0.7 EV, according to the 50D spec it should only work down to -0.5 so either my 50D is better than it should be or my test system wasn't clever enough (most likely).

I measured the light level with my gossen sixtomat light meter which is extremely accurate although tricky to use in the dark.

I think the results will vary according to target contrast and possibly which lens you use. I think it would be unlikely to be able to match Canon's claims unless you were using exactly the same setup that they had.

All I can definitely say is that the 7D2 is quite a lot better at focusing in low light than the 50D.
 
Ray UK said:
SteveAnderson said:
One question about your AF: Does the one shot center focus point work down to -3ev as Canon states?

Seems that review sites said it wasnt focusing well in low light(-0.5 which is bad), but i have a feeling it was in iTR mode vs one shot and maybe that was affecting focus? Canon cant claim -3 but it only does -0.5 could they?

Its annoying that my buddies Rebel focuses to moon light and my 50D is long done bothering to try to AF.
Click to expand...
Well that was a bit of a game, I set up a target in a dark room and then lit the target by bouncing light from a torch onto a nearby wall, by careful adjustment of the position of the torch I could vary the light level.

I managed to get the 7D2 to focus down to -2.1 EV and by using the same lens on my 50D I got down to -0.7 EV, according to the 50D spec it should only work down to -0.5 so either my 50D is better than it should be or my test system wasn't clever enough (most likely).

I measured the light level with my gossen sixtomat light meter which is extremely accurate although tricky to use in the dark.

I think the results will vary according to target contrast and possibly which lens you use. I think it would be unlikely to be able to match Canon's claims unless you were using exactly the same setup that they had.

All I can definitely say is that the 7D2 is quite a lot better at focusing in low light than the 50D.
Click to expand...
Wow Roy where is your tip box to send some money haha!

Thank you for all that work and help.

-2.1 vs -0.7 is a big deal and will be noticeable. Very good to know.

Thanks again.
 
orbmansony said:
I bought my 7D2 on a pre-release order, so I certainly have an early model, with now 180,000+ shots on it. The only issue I have had is that the LCD screen sometimes goes blank while zooming during image review, requires restarting the image review, but this is not a frequent problem. I did not send the camera to Canon as the problem was not repeatable on demand, and is more of an annoyance that a shooting problem. About a year ago, I met another guy who had the same intermittent problem with his 7D2, and his was also an early release model. Other than that, I think that early release 7D2 camera bodies are okay, at least with the ones I know about.

Orb . . .
Click to expand...
Hi Orb thanks for the info.

Do you happen to know what the numbers in the serial stand for?

What are the beginning numbers on your 7D2 if you dont mind?
 
Sorry, I don't know what the serial numbers mean other than the entire number being unique. The first three numbers on my camera are 022.

Orb . . .
 
SteveAnderson said:
BAK said:
I have not been following, but with your indulgence, I'll jump in.

RE: >>Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer? <<

I gather you've done a lot of thinking, but my newcomer brain asks, "Why does he need a different portrait camera when he has a 7D Mk II? What is his deliverable that can't be met with a 7D Mk II but can be met with and old 5D that he worries about being reliable?"

Various sources report the G2 version of the Tamron 24 - 70 is worth buying.

Regardless, now that you've settled on a course of action, go get some great pictures.

BAK
Click to expand...
Hi BAK,

The 5D has better color tonality than the newer cameras, will have a different look with the 24-70/2.8 than on 7Dm2. My 50D is top 3 in SMI for best colors in outdoor lighting.(all brands)

I wouldnt feel the need to say that but it was just so noticeable when i started testing newer cameras. I had to learn why my 50D which didnt even review very well has such accurate and pleasing colors/tones.

After testing a D7200, D750, and 6D, is when i realized color isnt color if you know what i mean. Those old strong CFA cameras really do have better tonality. More noise, less DR, but for skin photos especially, far better color.
Click to expand...
Different camera companies have settled on their own look when it comes to colors, contrast, and saturation. Every camera model from any manufacturer can show some variations in these as well. Every lens also imparts a color tint, some so small as to be unimportant, some enough to need correction.

Trying to make images from different camera and lens combinations have consistent colors is a frustrating problem that takes a lot of post production work to accomplish.

The way to consistent colors is to color calibrate your camera and lens combinations using a GretagMacbeth Color Checker Target such as the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport. This is especially easy to do with Adobe Photoshop or Lightroom.

X-Rite ColorChecker Passport – X-Rite Photo – X-Rite Passport

Color calibrate using this target in the subject lighting with every camera and lens combination you will be using in a shoot and regardless of camera or lens you will get colors that are consistent image to image.

Whether or not you then make changes to the colors for artistic purposes is up to you, but you will be starting from a standard color image so your post processing workflow becomes much easier.

Frankly it is more the photographer than the tool.

The 6D and D750 are both fine portrait cameras. The 7D II is another fine portrait camera. My 12? year old Konica Minolta DiMAGE A200 and 7 year old 7D are fine portrait cameras. I even took fine portraits with my first Canon 1.3 Mega pixel point and shoot camera and for over 40 years with various film cameras ranging from a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye to a Pentax Spotmatic to a Nikon N90S.

What you seem to be lacking is recognition that having consistent colors is the place to start your post processing toward the final image you have in your mind.

Stop shopping around for the "best" portrait camera and concentrate on learning how use one camera with a Passport to get consistent colors and how to post process from there.
 
Sailor Blue said:
SteveAnderson said:
BAK said:
I have not been following, but with your indulgence, I'll jump in.

RE: >>Considering 5D: I can get one that has had the mirror repaired. Knowing how old these bodies are, should i get the one with probably a lot of clicks but a repaired mirror or are there better identifiers of a body that will have a better chance of lasting longer? <<

I gather you've done a lot of thinking, but my newcomer brain asks, "Why does he need a different portrait camera when he has a 7D Mk II? What is his deliverable that can't be met with a 7D Mk II but can be met with and old 5D that he worries about being reliable?"

Various sources report the G2 version of the Tamron 24 - 70 is worth buying.

Regardless, now that you've settled on a course of action, go get some great pictures.

BAK
Click to expand...
Hi BAK,

The 5D has better color tonality than the newer cameras, will have a different look with the 24-70/2.8 than on 7Dm2. My 50D is top 3 in SMI for best colors in outdoor lighting.(all brands)

I wouldnt feel the need to say that but it was just so noticeable when i started testing newer cameras. I had to learn why my 50D which didnt even review very well has such accurate and pleasing colors/tones.

After testing a D7200, D750, and 6D, is when i realized color isnt color if you know what i mean. Those old strong CFA cameras really do have better tonality. More noise, less DR, but for skin photos especially, far better color.
Click to expand...
Different camera companies have settled on their own look when it comes to colors, contrast, and saturation. Every camera model from any manufacturer can show some variations in these as well. Every lens also imparts a color tint, some so small as to be unimportant, some enough to need correction.

Trying to make images from different camera and lens combinations have consistent colors is a frustrating problem that takes a lot of post production work to accomplish.

The way to consistent colors is to color calibrate your camera and lens combinations using a GretagMacbeth Color Checker Target such as the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport. This is especially easy to do with Adobe Photoshop or Lightroom.

X-Rite ColorChecker Passport – X-Rite Photo – X-Rite Passport

Color calibrate using this target in the subject lighting with every camera and lens combination you will be using in a shoot and regardless of camera or lens you will get colors that are consistent image to image.

Whether or not you then make changes to the colors for artistic purposes is up to you, but you will be starting from a standard color image so your post processing workflow becomes much easier.

Frankly it is more the photographer than the tool.

The 6D and D750 are both fine portrait cameras. The 7D II is another fine portrait camera. My 12? year old Konica Minolta DiMAGE A200 and 7 year old 7D are fine portrait cameras. I even took fine portraits with my first Canon 1.3 Mega pixel point and shoot camera and for over 40 years with various film cameras ranging from a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye to a Pentax Spotmatic to a Nikon N90S.

What you seem to be lacking is recognition that having consistent colors is the place to start your post processing toward the final image you have in your mind.

Stop shopping around for the "best" portrait camera and concentrate on learning how use one camera with a Passport to get consistent colors and how to post process from there.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.
Click to expand...
Thank you for all this but ive seen enough to know certain cameras do not do skin well. Not having to do with color correctness as much as just well.

The d750 is quite bad for portraits/skin in natural light especially and not a strong portrait camera to begin with. 4k photos with the d750 and hundreds of hours in RAW. D700 though, is good.

It seems to do with the sensor CFA and other sensor dynamics.

I have great portraits with my Rebel 300D. That doesnt mean every camera is though.

Ive seen other posts of yours and you take color calibration to the farthest level. I highly respect your posts ive read.

When i say 5D for portraits, i mean its going to be different, and interesting as well as probably very good. Not that the 7Dm2 will be bad at portraits. Im quite sure that sensor and Canon colors will do just fine for portraits also.
 
Last edited:
SteveAnderson said:
Sailor Blue said:
<snip>
Click to expand...
Thank you for all this but ive seen enough to know certain cameras do not do skin well. Not having to do with color correctness as much as just well.

The d750 is quite bad for portraits/skin in natural light especially and not a strong portrait camera to begin with. 4k photos with the d750 and hundreds of hours in RAW. D700 though, is good.

It seems to do with the sensor CFA and other sensor dynamics.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has a lot to do with the Color Filter Array.

Given the complexity of the wavelength passes of the IR, UV, and color filters plus the variable wavelength sensitivity of the silicon sensor it is highly likely that differences will be visible between any two brands or models of cameras. Adding the different tints of different lenses makes things even more complex.

Bandpass filters for the three RGB colors are used on a digital camera sensor. These are not narrow band pass filters but fairly broad ones. A graph of the amount of light passed vs wavelength would look like a hill, not a spike.

The bandpass of the red filter overlaps that of the green, which overlaps both the red and blue filters, and the bandpass of the blue overlaps that of the green. The wavelength that passes the maximum amount of light and how much overlap there is between the filters would have a major impact on the look of the images.

The other sensor dynamics that are important are pixel density and dynamic range.

After that is is all pretty much software processing. Color calibration is done to diminish or eliminate as many variables as possible but I wouldn't be at all surprised if differences remained, especially those caused by the band passes maxima, how the color filters overlap, and the dynamic range of the sensor.

As I said, it is the final portrait result more the photographer than the camera but if you find one brand or model of camera is more suited to you than another then by all means chose the tool that you feel gives you the best results.
 
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