Do you guys not believe in challenges?

Scott Denmark · Sep 12, 2003

I'd be interested too. I posted a message a couple of months ago here asking who wanted to do this. I did not get a single reply. My take at the time, was that a lot of people here were more interested in camera gear than photography. Nothing wrong with that, but I was a little surprised at the lack of interest. Most other photography sites and camera clubs have these on a regular basis.

This is by far the best photography site that I have found. It would be fun to do it here as well.

Scott...

Joe Reilly said:
I'll pay for the PBase gallery and pester folks into participation
if you pick the topic and run the first challenge. Whatcha think?

Joe

P.S. Nothing pertaining to Africa or wildlife. No running-starts
allowed.

Eric Lamont said:

I'm just curious... one of the things I miss about the Sony Talk
Form are the challenges. Nothing of the sort around here? It
always seemed to me to be a good way to channel the attention on
shooting, rather than talking...

Just wondering.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/misterpix

Eric Lamont · Sep 12, 2003

Wow, you need to cool off there bud. I wasnt upset by yours or anyone's reply. I simply was saying that I disagree that challenges are cons. I was also expressing why I believe they can be a good thing.

Hu said:
Eric,

You asked, I replied. I read a few challenges and they read like:
How would you retouch this photograph? Post the final image and all
of the steps and settings you used to get there.

This is NOT the kind of challenge I was referring to. I am talking about someone offering a topic like "Nature" or "Sculpture" or "Architecture" and people who CHOOSE to accept the challenge (no one is putting a gun to your head to participate) going out and shooting during a specified time then coming back and sharing their results. I dont know how you get to the place where this is someone trying to con all of us since each challenge is moderated by the winner of the previous one.

Hu said:
These people are asking for others to do their work or homework for
them and then trying to "con" the other forum readers into doing it
as a challenge. I'm not saying that this is all every challenge is
because I normally don't read them after reading similar challenges
to these over and over. If a moderator or someone in a respected
position wants to oversee some challenges I might pay attention.
Game players I don't have time for simply because I always have the
impression that they think they are really fooling the people who
respond. I have much more respect for people who simply ask for
help or examples.

Well I wasnt referring to "game players". Sorry if I wasnt clear....

Hu said:
By the way, you either haven't shot many sunsets or have a low
standard for what qualifies as beauty.

You really misunderstood my whole post.

Hu said:
Hu

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Camera Slug · Sep 12, 2003

Hi Hu,

Respectfully, I think we're still not on the same page. I read your clarification and read it the same way as I read your original. The challenge that I provided the link for in my post IS run by a moderator. No EXIF information has to be displayed. To some level, I can see your point about "web quality" photographs. Mainly I look at the composition, colors of the entrys anyway.

Anyway, to each his own.

Have a good one,
CS

Hu said:
Camera Slug said:

Well, regardless of your back and forth with Eric for no reason, I
wanted to point out that you misunderstood his post. He's not
talking about a "Help me fix this photo" thread. He's talking
about a photo contest with a theme. See link for the STF example:

Click to expand...

Camera Slug,

Apparently I understood his post far better than you understood mine.

(included text from my earlier post)
. . . I read a few challenges and they read like: How would you
retouch this photograph? Post the final image and all of the steps
and settings you used to get there. Or something like this:
Challenge: Shoot the sunset/sunrise with the 10D. Include the EXIF
file and any other helpful information.

These people are asking for others to do their work or homework for
them and then trying to "con" the other forum readers into doing it
as a challenge. I'm not saying that this is all every challenge is
because I normally don't read them after reading similar challenges
to these over and over. If a moderator or someone in a respected
position wants to oversee some challenges I might pay attention. .
. .

To make it even clearer for you I'll break out the last two
sentences: "I'm not saying that this is all every challenge is
because I normally don't read them after reading similar challenges
to these over and over. If a moderator or someone in a respected
position wants to oversee some challenges I might pay attention. .
. ."

I have the opportunity to compete locally and regionally every
month if I choose. There the real quality of a photograph can be
seen. Competing with net quality images has little appeal and going
out and shooting things I have no interest in just to respond to a
challenge has zero appeal.

Hu

--
Camera Slug
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/cameraslug

Eric Lamont · Sep 12, 2003

Hey thanks for the nod, but unfortunately my camera is in California. I could till come up with the subject but I wouldnt be able to participate.

Joe Reilly said:
I'll pay for the PBase gallery and pester folks into participation
if you pick the topic and run the first challenge. Whatcha think?

Joe

P.S. Nothing pertaining to Africa or wildlife. No running-starts
allowed.

Eric Lamont said:

I'm just curious... one of the things I miss about the Sony Talk
Form are the challenges. Nothing of the sort around here? It
always seemed to me to be a good way to channel the attention on
shooting, rather than talking...

Just wondering.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/misterpix

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

- rce - · Sep 12, 2003

It's one of the most descriptive and amusing images I've seen in ages.
--

rce -

http://www.pbase.com/rce

'Does that pixel look crooked to you?'

Ed Shropshire said:
Very old 75-300 non IS lens.

Actually I liked the challenges on the Sony forum. Lets just stay
away from cats, dogs and flowers.

Lets try some people pictures.
Ed

Eric Lamont said:

I'm just curious... one of the things I miss about the Sony Talk
Form are the challenges. Nothing of the sort around here? It
always seemed to me to be a good way to channel the attention on
shooting, rather than talking...

Just wondering.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Click to expand...

--
Ed
http://www.cbrycelea.com/photos/Index.html Old Pictures

Shutter. · Sep 12, 2003

Well Eric... that's why you'd be the perfect person to moderate the first one!

Eric Lamont said:
Joe Reilly said:

I'll pay for the PBase gallery and pester folks into participation
if you pick the topic and run the first challenge. Whatcha think?

Joe

P.S. Nothing pertaining to Africa or wildlife. No running-starts
allowed.

Eric Lamont said:

I'm just curious... one of the things I miss about the Sony Talk
Form are the challenges. Nothing of the sort around here? It
always seemed to me to be a good way to channel the attention on
shooting, rather than talking...

Just wondering.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/misterpix

Click to expand...

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

--
Jim Fuglestad

Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase. -Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

herb kauhry · Sep 12, 2003

How's that for a challenge ;-)

Don

--
'Have you lived there your entire life?'
'No, not yet.'

Petteri Sulonen · Sep 12, 2003

Hu said:
Petteri Sulonen said:

Hu said:

Who peed on your Wheaties, Hu?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

...since a total stranger just bought a picture from me to be used on a Sibelius CD cover, but...

Hu said:
Same question to you Petteri. Who peed on your Wheaties? Eric asked
a question and then seemed put out when he didn't get the reply he
wanted from every poster. The vast majority of "challenges" I have
seen have been thinly disguised BS. Eric asked if we believed in
challenges, I replied I didn't and stated why I didn't. Why should
that be an issue for you?

Not an issue at all, Hu. I was just wondering about your attack on Eric's aesthetic standards, that's all.

Hu said:
Hu said:

I looked at Eric's portfolio, and there's some really good work
there, including a few sunsets. Care to share some of yours, so we
can get a better idea of your standards?

Click to expand...

Why would I accommodate your challenge? My standards are high
enough that everybody can't go out and shoot a beautiful sunset on
demand as Eric stated could be done. Would you have had me post an
indifferent sunset to illustrate my point or a beautiful one to
seem to prove Eric's? I have shot far more indifferent or average
sunsets than ones I consider beautiful. It isn't an area I spend a
lot of time or effort on and every serious photographer I have
talked to only considers one in dozens of his sunset shots
exceptional. Perhaps you totally failed to grasp my point.

Perhaps I did. What I'm wondering at, is how did we get to discuss Eric's sunsets in the first place? He was asking about how people feel about challenges, and you responded by attacking his photography. What am I missing here?

Petteri
--

Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]

Eric Lamont · Sep 12, 2003

DBevis said:
How's that for a challenge ;-)

Don

--
'Have you lived there your entire life?'
'No, not yet.'

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Hu · Sep 12, 2003

Eric,

Your first reply to me was titled,"Well thats your opinion..." which seemed a bit antagonistic. That might have been only in my reading of it but then the message maintained "Anyone can walk around with a camera and shoot a sunset and get a beautiful photo. It takes practice, ingenuity (sp?), and drive to have your subject selected for you and be able to go out and make an artistic photo."

A beautiful sunset photo requires practice and a great deal of drive. Ingenuity varies from shot to shot regardless of what you are shooting but your implication that these qualities were not needed outside of a challenge was insulting whether intentional or not.

Hu

Eric Lamont · Sep 12, 2003

I will try to be more considerate of everyones sensitivities in the future. Please accept my apologies. I didnt mean to imply that to get a good sunset picture all that was needed is a camera. But I believe there is truth that anyone with a camera can shoot a sunset.

Nevertheless, I would prefer just to drop it.

Hu said:
Eric,

Your first reply to me was titled,"Well thats your opinion..."
which seemed a bit antagonistic. That might have been only in my
reading of it but then the message maintained "Anyone can walk
around with a camera and shoot a sunset and get a beautiful photo.
It takes practice, ingenuity (sp?), and drive to have your subject
selected for you and be able to go out and make an artistic photo."

A beautiful sunset photo requires practice and a great deal of
drive. Ingenuity varies from shot to shot regardless of what you
are shooting but your implication that these qualities were not
needed outside of a challenge was insulting whether intentional or
not.

Hu

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont

Remember yesterday... Live today... Dream about tomorrow...

Hu · Sep 12, 2003

Eric,

Anyone with a camera can shoot a sunset and anyone with a camera can enter an image in a challenge. However you added a bit more to the text originally.

I do agree that it is time to drop this. I consider the matter between us closed and forgotten.

Wishing you good shooting, inside or outside the confines of a challenge,
Hu

Hu · Sep 12, 2003

Petteri Sulonen wrote:
a total stranger just bought a picture from me to be used

Petteri Sulonen said:
on a Sibelius CD cover, but...

Petteri,

A sincere congratulations on the picture sale.

Petteri Sulonen said:
. . . I was just wondering about your attack on
Eric's aesthetic standards, that's all.

He was asking about how people

Petteri Sulonen said:
feel about challenges, and you responded by attacking his
photography. What am I missing here?

Petteri

Here is the statement of Eric's I responded to:

Petteri Sulonen said:
Anyone can walk around with a camera and shoot a sunset and get a
beautiful photo.

And here is what you have described as an attack on Eric's photography and his aesthetic standards:

"By the way, you either haven't shot many sunsets or have a low standard for what qualifies as beauty."

I think what you missed was that I made a comment in response to a comment of Eric's, I did not launch a personal attack at him. I consider beautiful shots of sunsets far harder to obtain than he indicated.

Hu

Petteri Sulonen · Sep 12, 2003

Hu wrote:
[snip]

Hu said:
I think what you missed was that I made a comment in response to a
comment of Eric's, I did not launch a personal attack at him. I
consider beautiful shots of sunsets far harder to obtain than he
indicated.

OK, that explains it. Problem of written vs. oral communication again -- without expressions and such, it's easy to misinterpret. Sorry!

Petteri
--

Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]

iso3200 · Sep 12, 2003

DavidP said:
Fred Miranda has weekly/monthly challenges on his sight. NOT
broken down by camera brand, etc.

It's kinda silly to hold a contest where only Canon cameras can
compete, don't ya think?

Interesting comments. Yes also DPchallenge.com host weekly challenges for any camera. And anyone here has a choice to join in with those if they wish.

But Eric's original post is more about just a challenge for THIS forum isn't it? - something positive for the people HERE. A challenge encourages participation and interaction between US. Exactly what is needed in this forum of whiners and nitpickers.

I respect your views. You set your own challenges. That's good. Most of us do. You can excercise your right NOT to take part in any challenge that is proposed on this forum as it's not what you're interested in. But perhaps others are?

I welcome it.

Best Regards

--
iso3200
----------
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=94746

DavidP #28649 · Sep 12, 2003

People have tried to get it started here before, without much success.

The reason? Utlimately, this particular site is more about the gear than it is the photography. There are other sites that are more about photography.

iso3200 said:
Interesting comments. Yes also DPchallenge.com host weekly
challenges for any camera. And anyone here has a choice to join in
with those if they wish.

But Eric's original post is more about just a challenge for THIS
forum isn't it? - something positive for the people HERE. A
challenge encourages participation and interaction between US.
Exactly what is needed in this forum of whiners and nitpickers.

I respect your views. You set your own challenges. That's good.
Most of us do. You can excercise your right NOT to take part in any
challenge that is proposed on this forum as it's not what you're
interested in. But perhaps others are?

I welcome it.

Best Regards

--
iso3200
----------
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=94746

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

herb kauhry · Sep 12, 2003

one-shot AF, no flash, nighttime with street lamps - locked right in...

Don

--
'Have you lived there your entire life?'
'No, not yet.'

eshropshire · Sep 13, 2003

Diane,

I have seen your images I am sure we will have many subjects that will be great for you. You have a great touch.

Sorry if I sounded too strong, I just think flowers are a little boring as subject matter. That said I take the some flower shots. I have some that I really like. I just think there are more interesting subjects.

Here is one I took a few weeks ago in New Mexico. I am still learning with this lens.

I look forward to the challenges. I hope Eric gets his camera back soon so he can help lead the charge.

Ed

Diane B said:
Ed Shropshire said:

Actually I liked the challenges on the Sony forum. Lets just stay
away from cats, dogs and flowers.

Lets try some people pictures.

Click to expand...

I rarely shoot people, so there ya' are LOL. Not cats or dogs
either--so where will that leave ME? smile .

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

--
Ed
http://www.cbrycelea.com/photos/Index.html Old Pictures

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Do you guys not believe in challenges?

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