D500+new Sigma 150-600.. Focus issues?

fuego6 · Feb 8, 2018

Hi.. recently purchased a new Sigma 150-600 lens for my newish D500. Took it out today for the first time.. and I"m not exactly thrilled with the results. Looking for some advice on what I am doing wrong... I took some "in the house" shots and the focus is very sharp... but out in the field... must be user error because these photos are a mess!

Thx for the advice and help... bring on the harsh comments... I have a thick skin and really just want to understand what I'm doing wrong here. I even reset all my settings back to stock in camera thinking I had something set wrong... but still.. the images are just really not sharp. I've included focus points and close ups so you can see the issues..

Thx!!

ISO160-1/400-f10 @600mm

Cropped shot to show out of focus... why? Focus was on the money.. shutter speed to slow?

Another photo...

ISO160-1/800-f6.3 @600mm - missed focus a bit.. but f6.3 should give me some latitude in getting a sharp image.

Crop of above image... why is this so bad?

Final Image to share:

ISO160-1/640-f6.3@600mm -faster shutter speed.. and I missed focus.. but even the water where focus is still out of focus.

Sad OOF... am I just trying to get too much out of this lens.. handheld?

I have about 100 other images from the day that shows similar sadness. These were taken handheld but braced against the car or pole.. .but perhaps I introduced the blur by hand holding?

Thx again!

n057 · Feb 8, 2018

fuego6 said:
Hi.. recently purchased a new Sigma 150-600 lens for my newish D500. Took it out today for the first time.. and I"m not exactly thrilled with the results. Looking for some advice on what I am doing wrong... I took some "in the house" shots and the focus is very sharp... but out in the field... must be user error because these photos are a mess!

Thx for the advice and help... bring on the harsh comments... I have a thick skin and really just want to understand what I'm doing wrong here. I even reset all my settings back to stock in camera thinking I had something set wrong... but still.. the images are just really not sharp. I've included focus points and close ups so you can see the issues..

Thx!!

Another photo...

Final Image to share:

I have about 100 other images from the day that shows similar sadness. These were taken handheld but braced against the car or pole.. .but perhaps I introduced the blur by hand holding?

Thx again!

You did nothing wrong

Whenever I read "Sigma + Nikon", my first thought is to check if you have the latest Sigma firmware. Third party lenses had to reverse engineer the focus algorithm, and often require a firmware upgrade so they work correctly with the latest bodies. Your Sigma was produced some time before the D500 and may not have the latest firmware.

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers

Dyun27 · Feb 8, 2018

My advice? Sell it and go buy a Nikon 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR.

Oh, and use a faster shutter speed than 1/400s!!! Are you hand-holding the lens? Do you have VR turned on? Shoot at 1/2500s at least and turn VR off!

Seriously though, that looks a lot like the results I was getting out of my old Sigma 50-500mm non-OS lens years ago. Swapped it out for another copy from Sigma and that one worked better... until the AF crapped out after one year of use.

They make much better lenses these days, but I prefer sticking with Nikon for good reason. I don't have these problems with Nikon lenses and I don't have to worry about compatibility or software updates. All things work together without the need for any tap-in consoles and the like.

--
http://www.dreamsourcestudio.com/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpivkova/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

larrywilson · Feb 8, 2018

Too slow of shutter speed especially in the first two images, poor lighting on the first image and subjects too far away on the first two images.

Here's several image I took last week with my d500 and Tamron 150-600 g2 lens with no auto focus fine tuning.

Larry

Baldy perching

Swan family

Baldy rear flight shot

Swan flapping

Old Greenlander · Feb 8, 2018

Sorry to hear that, and I feel your pain.

Meanwhile, I can't help myself,and I would remind you that the other day you were very critical to my pictures, and look what you post yourself...

Anyway, the combo is a good performer, check meticulously everything, step by step

This is what I get out of it, routinely, at 600 mm x 1.5 crop factor

Success

--
Old Greenlander
"I show the world the way I see it"
35 years of photography and still learning

N Deacon · Feb 9, 2018

We are seeing a lot of posts here that are similar to yours - along the lines of "I just bought my first superduperzoom and the pictures suck."

It is almost certainly user error. Shooting long telephotos requires a new skill set and a lot more thought about what, where and when you are going to shoot.

No-one can cover all the possible pitfalls in a forum posting, but classic traps are: -

Shutter speeds too low - usually MUCH too low. VR is overrated for long telephoto lenses, and remember that your surfer or flying bird require shutter speeds upward of 1/1600 to freeze their movement (and sometimes even that is too low).

Distance. There is a classic misconception of how best to use telephoto lenses - they are best used to make near things larger in the frame, not to bring very distant things closer. This is not a "rule" - in crystal clear unperturbed air (typically around dawn or dusk in temperate climates, but it can sometimes be all or most of the day in cold climates or in winter) then long lenses work well on more distant subjects but in the heat of the day it can be impossible to take any sharp pictures with the most expensive telephoto lens in the world at ranges more than about 20m - the heat haze simply destroys the image. The classic look of a heat hazed image is, shutter speed being adequate, nothing at all being sharp in the image and at 100% the subject looks like it is starting to dissolve. Sound familiar?

Depth of field. At long focal lengths, depth of field is very shallow, and the closer you get to your subject the shallower it gets. You say that "F/6,3 should give me some latitude" - I'm afraid it ain't so at 600mm. If you miss the focus at that FL you've missed the shot. AFFT is sometimes absolutely necessary to get the best results, even if you have spent 10k on your lens.

Check your lens out in decent early morning light in circumstances where you can take your time, make adjustments and review your shots. Learn to leave the lens in its bag when the sun is high and the haze is an image killer.

Jimusny · Feb 9, 2018

these look like what mine look like when I am shooting from a running car.. your car was turned off right? most all are back lit, I would try some test in yard with a tripod and with VR both off and on, in some hood light, You may just have a bad copy as well. my first Tamron G2 was awful so back it went and next copy acceptable

Also try F7.1 or F8.. you dont need such low ISO, I seldom shoot birds below IS0 400 just to keep shutter speed up

fuego6 · Feb 9, 2018

Old Greenlander said:
Sorry to hear that, and I feel your pain.

Meanwhile, I can't help myself,and I would remind you that the other day you were very critical to my pictures, and look what you post yourself...

Anyway, the combo is a good performer, check meticulously everything, step by step

This is what I get out of it, routinely, at 600 mm x 1.5 crop factor

Success

--
Old Greenlander
"I show the world the way I see it"
35 years of photography and still learning

I wasn't critical of your images (perhaps you have me confused with someone else?)... I only mentioned that they look dark on my work PC and was wondering if they looked good on others... .for example, this image looks very dark around the heron's head on my PC... its a great shot otherwise...

fuego6 · Feb 9, 2018

Thx everyone for the advice and info... I normally shoot handheld with the 80-400 and have gotten MUCH better results from similar distances.. so I expected this lens to be similar but to just get me in closer.

I totally get the point of not expecting miracles.. but did expect even missed focus spots to at least be in focus.... but perhaps I am not thinking about how to use this lens correctly.

Will take it out under more controlled circumstances and give it another shot. Otherwise, back to the store it goes and I'll need to reconsider it vs something else.

Much appreciate the thoughts all!

cosmicnode · Feb 9, 2018

Are you using AF-S or AF-C? The only indication of shutter speed is 1/400 sec on the first shot which is far to slow for 600mm The min shutter speed should be the reciprocal of the focal length at 1/600 as this is a 1.5 crop factor you need to multipy by 1.5 so min shutter speed should be 1/900 sec and even then only practice will improve the number of keepers

--
Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

kayaker353 · Feb 9, 2018

I notice that the images of the "full Scene" are roughly 1500X900 pixels, So does this mean that they were cropped or just downsized in upload? Previous comments regarding small subject size and camera/subject motion are very relevant. Small subject size gives the autofocus sensor serious challenges. I think that you should work on one variable at a time(e.g. shutter speed, aperture, focus tuning). Upping ISO to get higher shutter speed and aperture is also a possibility.

Warkari · Feb 9, 2018

cosmicnode said:
Are you using AF-S or AF-C? The only indication of shutter speed is 1/400 sec on the first shot which is far to slow for 600mm The min shutter speed should be the reciprocal of the focal length at 1/600 as this is a 1.5 crop factor you need to multipy by 1.5 so min shutter speed should be 1/900 sec and even then only practice will improve the number of keepers

--
Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

The minimum shutter speed as reciprocal of FL is only for non-stabilized lenses. With recent lenses with excellent stabilization like Nikon 200-500 or Tamron 150-600 G2, you can go a 2-3 stops slower and still get sharp pictures. And given that the aperture on these lenses is f5.6 or smaller, you have to slow down the shutter speed on cloudy days. For large perched birds like eagles, herons, that is not a problem.

Amit

600mm, 1/400s, f6.3, ISO1400

460mm, 1/400s, f6.3, ISO 400

600mm, 1.400s, f6.3, ISO 3200

600mm, 1/250s, f6.3, ISO 400

--

Amit Kulkarni

Explore Amit Kulkarni’s 2,549 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

fuego6 · Feb 9, 2018

Warkari said:
cosmicnode said:

Are you using AF-S or AF-C? The only indication of shutter speed is 1/400 sec on the first shot which is far to slow for 600mm The min shutter speed should be the reciprocal of the focal length at 1/600 as this is a 1.5 crop factor you need to multipy by 1.5 so min shutter speed should be 1/900 sec and even then only practice will improve the number of keepers

--
Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

Click to expand...

The minimum shutter speed as reciprocal of FL is only for non-stabilized lenses. With recent lenses with excellent stabilization like Nikon 200-500 or Tamron 150-600 G2, you can go a 2-3 stops slower and still get sharp pictures. And given that the aperture on these lenses is f5.6 or smaller, you have to slow down the shutter speed on cloudy days. For large perched birds like eagles, herons, that is not a problem.

Amit

600mm, 1/400s, f6.3, ISO1400

460mm, 1/400s, f6.3, ISO 400

600mm, 1.400s, f6.3, ISO 3200

600mm, 1/250s, f6.3, ISO 400

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/warkari/

These are the type of images I was expecting... ;-)

fuego6 · Feb 9, 2018

kayaker353 said:
I notice that the images of the "full Scene" are roughly 1500X900 pixels, So does this mean that they were cropped or just downsized in upload? Previous comments regarding small subject size and camera/subject motion are very relevant. Small subject size gives the autofocus sensor serious challenges. I think that you should work on one variable at a time(e.g. shutter speed, aperture, focus tuning). Upping ISO to get higher shutter speed and aperture is also a possibility.

Sorry.. I cheated... I took screen grabs of the full size RAW images as displayed from ViewNX... but those images represent the full unzoomed/uncropped images as seen in the software.

arniebook · Feb 9, 2018

A subject out of focus will have some evidence of front or back focus, but since it appears nothing at all in any of these is in focus I would have to say this is a camera/lens shake problem. It's a challenge to handhold a 750mm (equivalent) lens, even at 1/800 second. Even more so if you are trying to track a moving subject. A higher shutter speed of at least 1/2000 second is suggested for BIF or any active subject which actually calls for camera movement or panning to follow the action. It doesn't matter how steady you are, common sense dictates that if you are moving the camera during exposure, slower shutter speeds will cause blur. I'm also wondering if you had image stabilization turned on or off and which setting you had it on ... normal or pan/sport. If I had seen anything in focus I might advise AF fine tuning ... worth doing anyway.

Bottom line ... use higher shutter speeds ... and get closer if you expect results like some of the samples other posters are showing here.

--
What we spend on this stuff is equal to the depth of our pockets squared ($²) times what we (j)ustify in our minds as to what we expect to do with our pictures plus (+) the (e)njoyment we experience from using our stuff and sharing the result ... $xxxx=$²(j+e

)

Gary Skirvin · Feb 9, 2018

Atmospherics are also at play here. Trying to capture small subjects at distance on a warm sunny day most surely equals soft oof images. Static subjects closer will yield good results with proper settings for the conditions as mentioned in above responses.

Bald Eagle with toothpick. From about 300ft.

GS

fuego6 · Feb 10, 2018

arniebook said:
A subject out of focus will have some evidence of front or back focus, but since it appears nothing at all in any of these is in focus I would have to say this is a camera/lens shake problem. It's a challenge to handhold a 750mm (equivalent) lens, even at 1/800 second. Even more so if you are trying to track a moving subject. A higher shutter speed of at least 1/2000 second is suggested for BIF or any active subject which actually calls for camera movement or panning to follow the action. It doesn't matter how steady you are, common sense dictates that if you are moving the camera during exposure, slower shutter speeds will cause blur. I'm also wondering if you had image stabilization turned on or off and which setting you had it on ... normal or pan/sport. If I had seen anything in focus I might advise AF fine tuning ... worth doing anyway.

Bottom line ... use higher shutter speeds ... and get closer if you expect results like some of the samples other posters are showing here.

doonie · Feb 10, 2018

N Deacon said:
We are seeing a lot of posts here that are similar to yours - along the lines of "I just bought my first superduperzoom and the pictures suck."

It is almost certainly user error. Shooting long telephotos requires a new skill set and a lot more thought about what, where and when you are going to shoot.

No-one can cover all the possible pitfalls in a forum posting, but classic traps are: -

Shutter speeds too low - usually MUCH too low. VR is overrated for long telephoto lenses, and remember that your surfer or flying bird require shutter speeds upward of 1/1600 to freeze their movement (and sometimes even that is too low).

Distance. There is a classic misconception of how best to use telephoto lenses - they are best used to make near things larger in the frame, not to bring very distant things closer. This is not a "rule" - in crystal clear unperturbed air (typically around dawn or dusk in temperate climates, but it can sometimes be all or most of the day in cold climates or in winter) then long lenses work well on more distant subjects but in the heat of the day it can be impossible to take any sharp pictures with the most expensive telephoto lens in the world at ranges more than about 20m - the heat haze simply destroys the image. The classic look of a heat hazed image is, shutter speed being adequate, nothing at all being sharp in the image and at 100% the subject looks like it is starting to dissolve. Sound familiar?

Depth of field. At long focal lengths, depth of field is very shallow, and the closer you get to your subject the shallower it gets. You say that "F/6,3 should give me some latitude" - I'm afraid it ain't so at 600mm. If you miss the focus at that FL you've missed the shot. AFFT is sometimes absolutely necessary to get the best results, even if you have spent 10k on your lens.

Check your lens out in decent early morning light in circumstances where you can take your time, make adjustments and review your shots. Learn to leave the lens in its bag when the sun is high and the haze is an image killer.

To the OP. Read the above, and then read it again. And disregard anyone suggesting you buy a different lens or should be concerned with compatability issues or other such nonsense. AFT should only be considered as a last resort. You're shooting at 900mm equivalent handheld. There's a huge learning curve associated with these long lenses. OS is unpredictable and bracing the lens helps only so much. You need faster shutter speeds, proper long lens technique, get closer to your subject, and PRACTICE.

cosmicnode · Feb 10, 2018

Warkari said:
cosmicnode said:

Are you using AF-S or AF-C? The only indication of shutter speed is 1/400 sec on the first shot which is far to slow for 600mm The min shutter speed should be the reciprocal of the focal length at 1/600 as this is a 1.5 crop factor you need to multipy by 1.5 so min shutter speed should be 1/900 sec and even then only practice will improve the number of keepers

--
Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

Click to expand...

The minimum shutter speed as reciprocal of FL is only for non-stabilized lenses. With recent lenses with excellent stabilization like Nikon 200-500 or Tamron 150-600 G2, you can go a 2-3 stops slower and still get sharp pictures. And given that the aperture on these lenses is f5.6 or smaller, you have to slow down the shutter speed on cloudy days. For large perched birds like eagles, herons, that is not a problem.

Amit

I realise that, but it does help to use the reciprical when you are new to a lens and short on experience using it. It will help in identifying whether the lens is a poor one.

200-500 at 200mm 1/60sec D500

Warkari said:
600mm, 1/400s, f6.3, ISO1400

460mm, 1/400s, f6.3, ISO 400

600mm, 1.400s, f6.3, ISO 3200

600mm, 1/250s, f6.3, ISO 400

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/warkari/

--
Mike.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

cosmicnode · Feb 10, 2018

Were you using AF-C or AF-S this will make a huge difference to moving subjects.

D500+new Sigma 150-600.. Focus issues?

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