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Why I will miss my SD15, and what do I replace it with?

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George1958

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I had alway thought the SD1 Merrill would be the natural successor to my SD15. However the often reported poor AF and lack of live view put me off. I was close to buying the trio of DP1,2,3 Merrills when the DPx Quattros were introduced and the DPx were heavily discounted. I dithered and missed my chance but in truth I really did not want three bodies and I have a couple of SA mount lenses that would have fallen into disuse.

Now I have the opportunity to try the SD Quattro for three days from a local dealer. I am really excited about giving it a trial.

However I do have a couple of questions that I would appreciate some help with. Firstly I can push my pocket a little harder and go for the Quattro H. The 1:3 crop factor suits my wider angle SA lens collection a little better. Other than that, I wonder if there are any significant additional benefits in spending the extra money at an opportunity cost of also buying a new lens?

Secondly has any one used canon lenses with an adaptor on the Quattro/H? If so I would love to hear about your experience.

Regards

George



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There are NO adapters for Canon to Sigma cameras because the flange to focal plane distance is the same for both camera systems. Sigma SA mount lenses can be adapted to Canon mirrorless cameras and work reasonably well. Your SD15 lenses will work just fine on the SD Quattros.
 
You will miss the IQ for sure. Beautiful image of the cat, with the subtle tonality the F13 sensor does so well. This is what you have to trade in for higher resolution, and why I would love to see a FF sensor with this technology. 12 quality megapixels paired with the new processor, a good AF-system and a very basic, quality camera house, would be a dream tool in true Sigma spirit.
 
George1958 said:
I had alway thought the SD1 Merrill would be the natural successor to my SD15. However the often reported poor AF and lack of live view put me off....

Regards

George
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Beware of aliases!!!

The even more often not reporting of this (from me, for one, emphatically!) and the swag of suitable lenses you must already must would make the choice UN-clear, only because you would really have to reconsider the SD1M. As for the lack Live View, how would it be a problem when the SD15 also lacks it? I have never found it to be a real problem. Nice to have, for sure, but...

You'd probably be pleasantly surprised :-D

atom14.
 
If I were you I would get the SD Quattro H. In low-res mode it is slightly higher resolution than your SD15 and will operate much faster in almost every way. It has a buffer that in low-res mode should outperform your SD15 too. As far as shooting options vs. an SD Quattro, it's a tiny bit faster, can be used even faster in 1.5x crop mode too, so it's the faster version of the SD Quattro when you use it in 1.5x crop mode, and it has the option to use it in low-res mode to get images that offer a slightly wider angle view vs the SD Quattro, while maintaining that faster operational speed . . . at least that is the way I read it. I don't have a Quattro camera of any type, but I plan to get one (probably two of the eventually).

Why not just stick with the SD15? If your SD15 stopped working, you can get a used one for a reasonable price now, right?
 
atom14 said:
George1958 said:
I had alway thought the SD1 Merrill would be the natural successor to my SD15. However the often reported poor AF and lack of live view put me off....

Regards

George
Click to expand...
Beware of aliases!!!

The even more often not reporting of this (from me, for one, emphatically!) and the swag of suitable lenses you must already must would make the choice UN-clear, only because you would really have to reconsider the SD1M. As for the lack Live View, how would it be a problem when the SD15 also lacks it? I have never found it to be a real problem. Nice to have, for sure, but...

You'd probably be pleasantly surprised :-D

atom14.
Click to expand...
I was REALLY wishing I had live view the other day when I was trying to focus on a distant pier with my 70mm f2.8 Macro on my SD1. I just couldn't get it in perfect focus, and it just kept looking blurred. I was shooting from a tripod with mirror-up mode and the 2 second delay. Other shots were fine, but for some reason a clear shot of that distant pier kept eluding me. Live view would have been very welcome at that point. That's one reason I look forward to getting an SD Quattro or SD Quattro H.
 
Scottelly said:
If I were you I would get the SD Quattro H. In low-res mode it is slightly higher resolution than your SD15 and will operate much faster in almost every way. It has a buffer that in low-res mode should outperform your SD15 too. As far as shooting options vs. an SD Quattro, it's a tiny bit faster, can be used even faster in 1.5x crop mode too, so it's the faster version of the SD Quattro when you use it in 1.5x crop mode, and it has the option to use it in low-res mode to get images that offer a slightly wider angle view vs the SD Quattro, while maintaining that faster operational speed . . . at least that is the way I read it. I don't have a Quattro camera of any type, but I plan to get one (probably two of the eventually).

Why not just stick with the SD15? If your SD15 stopped working, you can get a used one for a reasonable price now, right?
Click to expand...
That would be my advice too, unless of course the SD15 is preventing progress for some particular reason.

BTW, I just found out today that the SD15 has the same LCD as the SD1M.

For myself, I'm beginning to find manual focusing more difficult through an OVF compared to my DP2M's focus-by-wire magnified view. That's how come I've been looking at LCDs lately.

--
Ted
 
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xpatUSA said:
Scottelly said:
If I were you I would get the SD Quattro H. In low-res mode it is slightly higher resolution than your SD15 and will operate much faster in almost every way. It has a buffer that in low-res mode should outperform your SD15 too. As far as shooting options vs. an SD Quattro, it's a tiny bit faster, can be used even faster in 1.5x crop mode too, so it's the faster version of the SD Quattro when you use it in 1.5x crop mode, and it has the option to use it in low-res mode to get images that offer a slightly wider angle view vs the SD Quattro, while maintaining that faster operational speed . . . at least that is the way I read it. I don't have a Quattro camera of any type, but I plan to get one (probably two of the eventually).

Why not just stick with the SD15? If your SD15 stopped working, you can get a used one for a reasonable price now, right?
Click to expand...
That would be my advice too, unless of course the SD15 is preventing progress for some particular reason.

BTW, I just found out today that the SD15 has the same LCD as the SD1M.

For myself, I'm beginning to find manual focusing more difficult through an OVF compared to my DP2M's focus-by-wire magnified view. That's how come I've been looking at LCDs lately.
Click to expand...
 
Please note Sigma does not guarantee that older lenses will autofocus correctly on the sd Quattro or the sd Quattro H. They guarantee correct operation only on the following:

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/popups/sa-mount_list/index.html

I had a few older SA-mount lenses, kept them hoping my sd Quattro would work properly with them. I had trouble (not saying you would have trouble, and others in this forum have and have not had trouble). I ended up buying two Art lenses for my sd Quattro and both work as they are guaranteed to work. They autofocus so well that I seldom feel any need to manually focus.

Art lenses are expensive but the 18-300 superzoom is on the compatibility list, and is not too bad pricewise ($399). I've heard good things about it. I have the older 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS MACRO HSM, not on the compatibility list, and it works semi-ok on my sd Quattro, well enough that I don't see a strong need for me to buy the 18-300. This 18-250 is one of the lenses that I had saved, one of the lenses I had trouble with on the sd Quattro. A recent sd Quattro firmware update seems to have made this lens work well enough at least for lo-res work. It used to work great on my SD15 and on my SD1, when I owned these cameras.

The sd Quattro in lo-res mode is quite nice to use, but not a match for the image quality of the SD15 in my opinion. The lo-res images from the sd Quattro are 2704x1808, slightly larger than the 2640x1760 images delivered by the SD15 (I'm using my classic DP2 manual here since I sold my SD15 a few years ago). The sensor itself is bigger though, more nearly APS-C, with a 1.5x focal length factor instead of the SD15 factor of 1.7.

Image quality is not the same as the SD15 but still pretty good. Just different...

I have a sd Quattro and I'm happy with it. I'd like to see a SD15 sensor in this body, or a full frame version of the SD15 sensor, but until then I intend to keep the sd Quattro. The EVF and live view and focus magnification are far, far beyond the limitations of the OVFs found in the SD1 and the SD15. The only disadvantage is that there is a slight time delay between reality and what you see in the electronic viewfinder, so it is easy to miss fast action.

--
Tom Schum
Every day a new paradigm.
 
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I find the sdQH to be a good, well made and useful camera. It more or less replaces the Mamiya Press roll-film camera that I used years ago. The ergonomics are excellent.

If you think in terms of film, the ISO limits are not so onerous.

If you think of it as a direct replacement for an SD15, you may be frustrated. It is a different camera, with different strengths. Every camera has its own character, and it can take a few months to learn how to work with it.
 
Iconoscope said:
Your SD15 lenses will work just fine on the SD Quattros.
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"Work" is a relative term.

Will the lenses fit? Yes. Will they auto-focus? Maybe. Maybe not.

The only lenses guaranteed to work with the sdQ/H cameras are the latest Global Vision versions.

Anything else "may" work... or not, to varying degrees. The latest 105mm macro lens seems to do OK too. I have an older 70-200 macro non-IS that auto-focuses OK in very good lighting and performance falls off quickly from there.

The OP would really need to consider moving on to Global Vision series lenses for the best AF performance from the sdQ/H. Or, stick with a Sigma dSLR.
 
Many thanks Scott and also to others.

The information has been really helpful. My gut feeling is to look around for new or lightly used a SD1M. Failing that I will be leaning toward the Quattro H. The H is the bigger investment financially, but i tend to keep and use my gear for a long time.

I don’t think I will ever part with or stop using my SD15, or DP1s. The SD15 was a revelation to me from the first time I viewed the files on my computer. I still feel that way today when I manage to nail an exposure and get the WB spot on.

Thanks again to all
 
George1958 said:
Many thanks Scott and also to others.

The information has been really helpful. My gut feeling is to look around for new or lightly used a SD1M. Failing that I will be leaning toward the Quattro H.
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You're welcome, George!

If you go with the Merrill, you'll enter the wacky world of SPP5 where the initial review image is actually the embedded JPEG out of the X3F and you have to push a button and wait a while ( about a 100 years in Windows XP) before you see the converted raw image. You'll wait about that same while after each adjustment. Just sayin'.

People tend to get used to that kind of stuff and consider it "normal" but, personally, I find it really irritating. If the lens and the manual focusing weren't so good on the DP2M, I'd sell it tomorrow!

Others here can tell you how it all works with the 'H' and SPP6, but my guess is that it won't be pretty.

Certainly keep the SD15 until you're comfortable with later versions of SPP + Merrill or Quattro on your computer.

--
Ted
 
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George1958 said:
Many thanks Scott and also to others.

The information has been really helpful. My gut feeling is to look around for new or lightly used a SD1M. Failing that I will be leaning toward the Quattro H. The H is the bigger investment financially, but i tend to keep and use my gear for a long time.

I don’t think I will ever part with or stop using my SD15, or DP1s. The SD15 was a revelation to me from the first time I viewed the files on my computer. I still feel that way today when I manage to nail an exposure and get the WB spot on.

Thanks again to all
Click to expand...
Not the cheapest option for an SD1M, but surely the least-worrisome, is to buy a refurb directly from Sigma:

Cameras | SIGMA Corporation of America

The joy of photography goes beyond mere technical perfection. Our unique cameras are designed and engineered to inspire creativity in every moment.
www.sigmaphoto.com www.sigmaphoto.com

$899 for the body or $1099 with an 18-200mm zoom lens that presumably works well with the SD1M's sensor. Typical eBay prices are less, but then you won't get a warranty.
 
MrImprovement said:
George1958 said:
Many thanks Scott and also to others.

The information has been really helpful. My gut feeling is to look around for new or lightly used a SD1M. Failing that I will be leaning toward the Quattro H. The H is the bigger investment financially, but i tend to keep and use my gear for a long time.

I don’t think I will ever part with or stop using my SD15, or DP1s. The SD15 was a revelation to me from the first time I viewed the files on my computer. I still feel that way today when I manage to nail an exposure and get the WB spot on.

Thanks again to all
Click to expand...
Not the cheapest option for an SD1M, but surely the least-worrisome, is to buy a refurb directly from Sigma:

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/sigma-outlet/shop-cameras

$899 for the body or $1099 with an 18-200mm zoom lens that presumably works well with the SD1M's sensor. Typical eBay prices are less, but then you won't get a warranty.
Click to expand...
Assuming he buys from a Seller that doesn't accept returns; and even if the Seller doesn't accept returns, either eBay or PayPal covers you on bad stuff, I reckon. Got a refund recently on such an item because the carrier failed to deliver.
 
xpatUSA said:
You're welcome, George!

If you go with the Merrill, you'll enter the wacky world of SPP5 where the initial review image is actually the embedded JPEG out of the X3F and you have to push a button and wait a while ( about a 100 years in Windows XP) before you see the converted raw image. You'll wait about that same while after each adjustment. Just sayin'.

People tend to get used to that kind of stuff and consider it "normal" but, personally, I find it really irritating. If the lens and the manual focusing weren't so good on the DP2M, I'd sell it tomorrow!

Others here can tell you how it all works with the 'H' and SPP6, but my guess is that it won't be pretty.

Certainly keep the SD15 until you're comfortable with later versions of SPP + Merrill or Quattro on your computer.
Click to expand...
 
danski0224 said:
xpatUSA said:
You're welcome, George!

If you go with the Merrill, you'll enter the wacky world of SPP5 where the initial review image is actually the embedded JPEG out of the X3F and you have to push a button and wait a while ( about a 100 years in Windows XP) before you see the converted raw image. You'll wait about that same while after each adjustment. Just sayin'.

People tend to get used to that kind of stuff and consider it "normal" but, personally, I find it really irritating. If the lens and the manual focusing weren't so good on the DP2M, I'd sell it tomorrow!

Others here can tell you how it all works with the 'H' and SPP6, but my guess is that it won't be pretty.

Certainly keep the SD15 until you're comfortable with later versions of SPP + Merrill or Quattro on your computer.

--
Ted
Click to expand...
I don't have any (more) issues with the latest version. Sigma seems to have corrected the issues that existed when GPU enhanced processing was introduced.

Yes, it takes longer than Lightroom or Canon's DPP, but my experience isn't anywhere near a 100 year wait, or on a software platform that hasn't been supported for years now. W7 seems to be fine.
Click to expand...
For the record, I was talking about the past. It's only about a 10 year wait on my current four-core W7 machine running 5.5.3.

Will not be loading the latest version.

--
Ted
 
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xpatUSA said:
For the record, I was talking about the past. It's only about a 10 year wait on my current four-core W7 machine running 5.5.3.

Will not be loading the latest version.
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I still don't have to wait even 10 years to process a Merrill file using the latest version of SPP.

:)
 
danski0224 said:
xpatUSA said:
For the record, I was talking about the past. It's only about a 10 year wait on my current four-core W7 machine running 5.5.3.

Will not be loading the latest version.
Click to expand...
I still don't have to wait even 10 years to process a Merrill file using the latest version of SPP.

:)
Click to expand...
Said with a slight head-wobble? ;-)

Will not be loading the latest version. No Q, not interested. :-D

Over to you for the coveted Last Word ...

--
Ted
 
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