echolsphoto
Veteran Member
Am I missing anything if I just have the laptop sleep instead of shutting it down?
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Sleep vs Shut down??
- Thread starter echolsphoto
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Thomas Guenther
Veteran Member
It is up to you and your system.
It does not take much longer to really shut down your computer/using hibernation of the system. Off and On together are form my experience faster than Hibernation On/Off.
So that Off is Off, the system is being built up completely new after each new start, while starting from Hibernate State and all settings are present and maybe not renewed or acquired by the OS.
Next thing that you have take in mind, that hibernation is prone to heavy HD consumption. A working Hibernation produces every time a complete clone of the running system, which can easily grow up to 10 GB or more, depending on which applications, services etc. are running at the time of setting the system into Hibernation.
So at the end it takes often longer to awake a hibernating system than compiling the complete kernel and system on Start.
Hibernation is somewhat outdated, regarding speed and capabilities to actual systems. It was created as it took more then 2 to 4 minutes to start a system for OFF.
And at the end: Hibernation is less secure, because the system is still running and can be easier accessed illegal than this would be possible of a non running/non sleeping system.
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bent christian
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I have never lost settings by shutting down my Mac or any other computer system.
Unless the user wants to retain an "open" state on files they are currently working on, hibernate and sleep are mostly obsolete in 2018. New Macs startup in in 15-17 seconds, maybe a couple more if you like to reopen previous applications (I don't). In the off state, computer systems are secured by password and consume no power.
I know I have a five-year old computer (though one with an SSD as the boot drive), but relaunching 30-odd applications plus close to 20 login items (some of which will show up as menubar items) does take more than a couple of seconds.
Thomas Guenther
Veteran Member
So, you do agree to my posting ...
graybalanced
Veteran Member
From a workflow standpoint, sleeping is far superior to shutting down.
It's not just a matter of re-opening applications. When I arrive at my computer, I like my workspace and document states to be exactly as they were when I left. Not just which applications were open, but which documents were open, in their window arrangement, across multiple monitors, at the scroll positions and page numbers I was last referencing.
My SSD equipped computer might start up in a few seconds, and the applications might take a few seconds more, but it will take a few minutes to reconstruct the last multiple applications, multiple documents workspace I was using.
This is not a factor if you like to completely quit out everything before shutting down. For you guys, open document states don't matter. Shutting down is probably better.
But macOS has become so reliable that I have the luxury of treating it like a real-life desk: When you come back, everything that was on it is as you left it, the workflow is uninterrupted and continuous. I shut down or reboot my MacBook Pro probably once every few weeks. I do shut down my Mac Pro at night, because I don't use it every day, and because it consumes so much power.
There is also a performance consideration. When you shut down, some caches are dumped, so their performance advantages are lost. Opening an application takes the most time the first time it is launched after a restart. To allow it to use the cached data in the current session, restart less often so that you don't lose the current session. To make sure launching an application always takes the slowest time, restart the computer between each launch of that application (as in a daily shut down habit).
It's not just a matter of re-opening applications. When I arrive at my computer, I like my workspace and document states to be exactly as they were when I left. Not just which applications were open, but which documents were open, in their window arrangement, across multiple monitors, at the scroll positions and page numbers I was last referencing.
My SSD equipped computer might start up in a few seconds, and the applications might take a few seconds more, but it will take a few minutes to reconstruct the last multiple applications, multiple documents workspace I was using.
This is not a factor if you like to completely quit out everything before shutting down. For you guys, open document states don't matter. Shutting down is probably better.
But macOS has become so reliable that I have the luxury of treating it like a real-life desk: When you come back, everything that was on it is as you left it, the workflow is uninterrupted and continuous. I shut down or reboot my MacBook Pro probably once every few weeks. I do shut down my Mac Pro at night, because I don't use it every day, and because it consumes so much power.
There is also a performance consideration. When you shut down, some caches are dumped, so their performance advantages are lost. Opening an application takes the most time the first time it is launched after a restart. To allow it to use the cached data in the current session, restart less often so that you don't lose the current session. To make sure launching an application always takes the slowest time, restart the computer between each launch of that application (as in a daily shut down habit).
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I shut down my desktop (Mac Mini) each night. It's nice to have it "start fresh" each morning.
During the day, I have it set to "never" sleep.
Instead, if I'm going to be away from it for a good while, I just reach and shut off the display.
I -do- have the screensaver active, so the screen goes dark if I'm away for longer than I anticipated.
But sleep... no.
I also have a MacBook Pro, which I assume sleeps when I close the lid. But I've disabled hibernation mode (why bother?). I shut that off at night, too.
During the day, I have it set to "never" sleep.
Instead, if I'm going to be away from it for a good while, I just reach and shut off the display.
I -do- have the screensaver active, so the screen goes dark if I'm away for longer than I anticipated.
But sleep... no.
I also have a MacBook Pro, which I assume sleeps when I close the lid. But I've disabled hibernation mode (why bother?). I shut that off at night, too.
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So your only concern is having the benefits of a daily reboot? Saving energy by sleeping (or shutting down) doesn't enter the equation for you?
To be fair, a lot of applications are able to reconstruct their state, including which documents were open and which windows were where automatically (it still takes time but not user activity).
That is another reason I tend have about 30 applications open at the same time.
graybalanced
Veteran Member
Sure. But with sleep, as soon as the screen lights up, the Mac is practically ready to go. There may be a short delay, but with the laptops, the delay is over but the time the lid gets fully open. I loooooooove this "instant on" quality which you don't get with a cold start.
I asked this question to a Mac instructor at the Apple Store. He said that if I restart from a shut down, my MacBook Pro (late 2016) does certain beneficial procedures that do not happen if I just "wake up" the computer from the sleep state. So, he recommends at least periodically shutting down the computer.
That said, I have a number of bad experiences getting wrong information from staff at the Apple Store. So, if it's important, you'd better check and recheck any information from them.
noirdesir wrote:
"So your only concern is having the benefits of a daily reboot? Saving energy by sleeping (or shutting down) doesn't enter the equation for you?"
Absolutely not.
I couldn't care less.
The Mini doesn't use much power anyway. And as I mentioned, I do power off the display...
"So your only concern is having the benefits of a daily reboot? Saving energy by sleeping (or shutting down) doesn't enter the equation for you?"
Absolutely not.
I couldn't care less.
The Mini doesn't use much power anyway. And as I mentioned, I do power off the display...
graybalanced
Veteran Member
Your caution is well warranted. I would be very interested in what those "beneficial" procedures are, because no one else has ever mentioned them as far as I know.
macOS is built on Unix, and Unix was originally built for servers that never get turned off. On the latest MacBook Pros, they're even starting to remove the concept of a power button, because there isn't a dedicated one anymore...it's hidden under the Touch ID button. Apple took the power buttons off of the keyboards for the desktop computers long ago; now it is only on the back of the computer, which is not always easily reachable depending on where you put the CPU.
Apple's vision now is, you close the Mac to sleep it, open the lid to wake it, and no longer think about fully powering down or up. For the desktops, you either leave it on with the screen off, or you let the whole Mac sleep after an Energy Saver timeout period. They are moving the Mac in the direction of the iOS devices which are instant-on for immediate availability.
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bent christian
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You must not be listening or using your head. Shutting down a Mac clears any swap files, misc cache and temp files on startup. It is how updates are installed. No meaningful power is running through system, so components are not stressed. I have always shut my computer systems down, and they always last ten or more years. I use my home computer for just a few hours a day. It would be ridiculous for me to leave it sitting in Sleep mode fr the other 21 hours of the day.
vdubreeze
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I never shut down. Always sleep. Restarts figure in occasionally but not often.
graybalanced
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There is no evidence that all those files need to be cleared every day, and as I wrote earlier, it's actually more beneficial if caches persist, because every time they are reset, there is a performance hit when applications cannot fetch recently used data from the cache, especially if it's in RAM.
Of course you want to restart if updates were installed. But only the updates that require a restart, since more and more, Mac updates do not require a restart.
Let me be clear, I am not saying everyone should always sleep their Macs. It depends on your situation. Of course you should turn off a Mac that is only used 3 hours a day. I think I also posted that my desktop Mac is shut down every day, mostly because it isn't used every day. I only keep my laptop running because I use it all day long. My main point is that sleep is completely valid and doesn't hurt the Mac. But shut down your Mac if it fits your usage pattern.
Long term uptime has no meaningful negative impact on a Mac. I've had mine go between restarts from between two weeks and three months with no adverse effects on deadline driven, paying production work.
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bent christian
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I depends on what caches and temp files you are talking about. Spotify cache is at least one that does not need to persist. It exists only to reduce network pressure on ISPs and Spotify's own servers. It does not enhance the end-user experience in any meaningful way.
If data is being swapped out to disk, it is obviously better to have that cleared every day.
All electronic and mechanical devices degrade while in use. Additionally, if fans are spinning, dust is surely going inside the unit. This can be problematical with Apple products in particular, as they tend to seal them, which prevents routine maintenance by the user. Switching Apple computers off reduces the affect.
johnbandry
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I'm with graybalanced on this. Caches do no harm, and are often useful. It's not at all obvious that clearing a swap file (if you even have one) is of any benefit - I can't think of any, but please do enlighten me.
Electronic devices (and I include components in that) are most likely to suffer damage when powered on, and mechanical devices such as disks are vulnerable both to startup and shutdown. A sleeping device will not have its fans spinning. The most likely cause of damage to a computer is 'routine maintenance' by the user.
Sure, the benefit from some cache data might be almost zero, but cumulatively the benefit from caches is very noticeable.
Why? Does it leave stains on the disk?
The best use for fast 'storage media' is to keep it as full as possible. The more data you have in fast storage, the larger the likelihood that what data you need at any point in time is available from fast storage media. Roughly speaking, the fastest storage media is the CPU cache, the second fastest is RAM, the third SSD and fourth HDD. But data that has already been processed in some way is also 'faster' than unprocessed data. This means, that even swapped out memory can usually be transferred into RAM faster than the raw data on disk (which would have to be read and processed before it arrives in RAM).
If anything therefore there is a downside to deleting swapped out memory and certainly no upside.
Show me a computer whose HDD or fan are spinning when the computer is sleeping.
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