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A7iii silent shutter

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lxymichael

lxymichael

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So far we know: 1) the A9's silent shutter relies on the DRAM on the sensor to achieve good performance (minimum jelly effect); 2) A7iii will not have A9's 20fps, meaning also that the DRAM module must be weakened.

Is it an educated guess that the A7iii will have poorer silent shutter compared to A9?
 
I would say "yes" - whether the camera could be as good or not, I would be amazed if it were not crippled in several ways vs the A9.

A sweet spot for me personally would be 24MP with a silent shutter, 40+ is too many, 12MP is on the edge of what I can deliver.
 
AshMills said:
I would say "yes" - whether the camera could be as good or not, I would be amazed if it were not crippled in several ways vs the A9.

A sweet spot for me personally would be 24MP with a silent shutter, 40+ is too many, 12MP is on the edge of what I can deliver.
Click to expand...
 
lxymichael said:
So far we know: 1) the A9's silent shutter relies on the DRAM on the sensor to achieve good performance (minimum jelly effect); 2) A7iii will not have A9's 20fps, meaning also that the DRAM module must be weakened.

Is it an educated guess that the A7iii will have poorer silent shutter compared to A9?

--
Played with kit lens setup of Pentax Kr, then Nikon D7000.
Had lots of fun with Fuji X-T10 and the primes;
Sony A7ii meets my current needs: focusing speed, low light performance, IBIS, and great NFC, packed in a small body.
Did I mention it's really fun to pair vintage lenses with it?
Click to expand...
Although the "Jelly Effect" has been greatly minimized in these two last modells, IMO you should only use Silent Shutter when absolutely needed and with a static camera position... :)

Otoh, the new A7RM3 Mechanical Shutter is quiet/discrete enough to not be heard in normal/most environment conditions, specially when used together with EFCS until 1/1000s Shutter Speeds... :)

All the best,
Pedro
 
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lxymichael said:
So far we know: 1) the A9's silent shutter relies on the DRAM on the sensor to achieve good performance (minimum jelly effect); 2) A7iii will not have A9's 20fps, meaning also that the DRAM module must be weakened.
Click to expand...
That does not mean that the DRAM module "must" be weakened. If it's the same then the larger file sizes alone will slow down processing speed resulting in lower burst speeds.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
 
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lxymichael said:
So far we know: 1) the A9's silent shutter relies on the DRAM on the sensor to achieve good performance (minimum jelly effect); 2) A7iii will not have A9's 20fps, meaning also that the DRAM module must be weakened.

Is it an educated guess that the A7iii will have poorer silent shutter compared to A9?

--
Played with kit lens setup of Pentax Kr, then Nikon D7000.
Had lots of fun with Fuji X-T10 and the primes;
Sony A7ii meets my current needs: focusing speed, low light performance, IBIS, and great NFC, packed in a small body.
Did I mention it's really fun to pair vintage lenses with it?
Click to expand...
Why does it necessarily mean that the dram is weakened? The A7RIII files are much larger, correct?
 
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lxymichael said:
So far we know: 1) the A9's silent shutter relies on the DRAM on the sensor to achieve good performance (minimum jelly effect); 2) A7iii will not have A9's 20fps, meaning also that the DRAM module must be weakened.

Is it an educated guess that the A7iii will have poorer silent shutter compared to A9?
Click to expand...
 
tbcass said:
lxymichael said:
So far we know: 1) the A9's silent shutter relies on the DRAM on the sensor to achieve good performance (minimum jelly effect); 2) A7iii will not have A9's 20fps, meaning also that the DRAM module must be weakened.
Click to expand...
That does not mean that the DRAM module "must" be weakened. If it's the same then the larger file sizes alone will slow down processing speed resulting in lower burst speeds.
Click to expand...
 
A7iii will not have stacked DRAM to save the cost. That DRAM chip in A9 more than doubles the price of the sensor - it doubles the total silicon area, plus the chips have to be bonded.

Without stacked DRAM you lose fast read-out speed and with it the low distortion silent shutter and blackout free EVF while shooting.
 
Jekabs said:
A7iii will not have stacked DRAM to save the cost. That DRAM chip in A9 more than doubles the price of the sensor - it doubles the total silicon area, plus the chips have to be bonded.

Without stacked DRAM you lose fast read-out speed and with it the low distortion silent shutter and blackout free EVF while shooting.
Click to expand...
This will be my guess as well.
 
But it is still not a global shutter and I can't safely use electronic shutter as a default mode. Too early it seems.
 
On the A9?

The readout speed is 1/160th of a second. So yes it is not a global shutter, but damn close to the 1/250th of most mechanical shutters. A lot of cameras out there don't even have that fast mechanical shutter.

So if there is any camera, where you can treat the electronic shutter the same as mechanical than it is the A9
 
yes, it sometimes enough to decrease distortion (but for fast objects not enough), but also banding is still here.

so for me those are additional things to think about, do not like it like that.

with mechanical shutter I am sure not having distortion/banding.
 
SergeyFromMoscow said:
with mechanical shutter I am sure not having distortion/banding.
Click to expand...
Sorry but you have a wrong understanding of shutters. Every focal plane shutter can have banding and distortion. And yes, that includes mechanical shutters. The A9 doesn't have more distortion than mechanical shutters with 1/160th sync speed.

The mechanical shutter of the new Fuji GFX for example has more banding and distortion problems, than the A9s electronic shutter, due to its 1/120th sync speed.

Let's address the problems one by one. First distortion. The A9 has no problem there. And that is in 100% of the cases, or did you ever hear somebody complain about the rolling shutter they got from their film DSLR? Those often had even far lower sync speeds.

Second: banding. The A9 has no problem here in all cases, expect very high frequency light with very high shutter speeds. But that really isn't a problem with the A9 but with all cameras. Search a bit online and you will find out that banding isn't a problem that arrived with electronic shutter, but has long been a problem for DSLRs
 
Yes that's fair to say. One would not expect the silent shutter on a $4,500 camera to make it into a $2,000 full-frame offering from Sony. Don't get me wrong, a hypothetical A7III would have a better silent shutter than A7II, more in line with the A7RIII, but it won't be revolutionary.
 
Personally I'm not after revolutionary, I'm just after silence, with 24MP, Full frame, and ideally a bit more rubber in the gaps.
 
AshMills said:
Personally I'm not after revolutionary, I'm just after silence, with 24MP, Full frame, and ideally a bit more rubber in the gaps.
Click to expand...
 
Jrnichols5 said:
I find it hard to believe Sony would release a camera without those specs in 2018.
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry, forgot to say, I want it for $1500 or less.
 
panther fan said:
panther fan said:
with mechanical shutter I am sure not having distortion/banding.
Click to expand...
Sorry but you have a wrong understanding of shutters. Every focal plane shutter can have banding and distortion. And yes, that includes mechanical shutters. The A9 doesn't have more distortion than mechanical shutters with 1/160th sync speed.

The mechanical shutter of the new Fuji GFX for example has more banding and distortion problems, than the A9s electronic shutter, due to its 1/120th sync speed.

Let's address the problems one by one. First distortion. The A9 has no problem there. And that is in 100% of the cases, or did you ever hear somebody complain about the rolling shutter they got from their film DSLR? Those often had even far lower sync speeds.

Second: banding. The A9 has no problem here in all cases, expect very high frequency light with very high shutter speeds. But that really isn't a problem with the A9 but with all cameras. Search a bit online and you will find out that banding isn't a problem that arrived with electronic shutter, but has long been a problem for DSLRs
Click to expand...
Of note: The one example where someone saw banding in the A9, the photographer was operating at extremely high shutter speeds (1/8000 sec). You would've seen similar banding from any mechanical-shutter unit at similar speeds.
 
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