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Does this look flat (pic)

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dboogie

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The other day Bill Huber and I had a wonderful discussion on how/why a photo can sometimes appear flat. We tossed around ideas and i think we both gained some knowledge on the topic. Anyway I shot this one and since Bill and I had just had the discussion, I began to second guess as to whether or not the overall shot had a flat appearance. To me, this one does not look flat.

I'd like to get you guys/gals opinion. Also if ya have any thoughts on how/why photos sometimes take on a flat appearance I'd like to hear that as well.

thanks in advance

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
dboogie said:


The other day Bill Huber and I had a wonderful discussion on
how/why a photo can sometimes appear flat. We tossed around ideas
and i think we both gained some knowledge on the topic. Anyway I
shot this one and since Bill and I had just had the discussion, I
began to second guess as to whether or not the overall shot had a
flat appearance. To me, this one does not look flat.
I'd like to get you guys/gals opinion. Also if ya have any
thoughts on how/why photos sometimes take on a flat appearance I'd
like to hear that as well.

thanks in advance

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
Click to expand...
--
Olympus C-730
 
A print looks flat when the highlights are allowed to get muddy, lingering too close to zone 5 (18% ref. gray} when they should be pushed to zone 6-7 range. As a result blacks also loose their luster because they lack a white to bounce off of. But, that's just my opinion for what little it is worth.
--
R. C. Johnson
 
I would redo a layers adjustment layer with levels or curves. It needs more at the white end.
dboogie said:


The other day Bill Huber and I had a wonderful discussion on
how/why a photo can sometimes appear flat. We tossed around ideas
and i think we both gained some knowledge on the topic. Anyway I
shot this one and since Bill and I had just had the discussion, I
began to second guess as to whether or not the overall shot had a
flat appearance. To me, this one does not look flat.
I'd like to get you guys/gals opinion. Also if ya have any
thoughts on how/why photos sometimes take on a flat appearance I'd
like to hear that as well.

thanks in advance

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
Click to expand...
 
hmmm, I tried going more to the white end but when i do the whites seem to become blown out. I'll keep trying. thanks for the input

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
T Dunn said:
dboogie said:


The other day Bill Huber and I had a wonderful discussion on
how/why a photo can sometimes appear flat. We tossed around ideas
and i think we both gained some knowledge on the topic. Anyway I
shot this one and since Bill and I had just had the discussion, I
began to second guess as to whether or not the overall shot had a
flat appearance. To me, this one does not look flat.
I'd like to get you guys/gals opinion. Also if ya have any
thoughts on how/why photos sometimes take on a flat appearance I'd
like to hear that as well.

thanks in advance

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
Click to expand...
--
Olympus C-730
Click to expand...
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
it appears the same way to me too. hmmm.
thanks Sue for the taking the time to comment.

dboogie

--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
ok, i've glanced over Ansel Adams zone system VERY VERY briefly in the past and I'm not up to par on what it all means. I do seem to follow what you wrote though and I appreciate your comments....

big thanks

dboogie

--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
I agree with ya Jack, color does help...good contrast between those colors is equally important I think. food for thought.

thanks for the look and comments

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
I can not tell you why, and I have been doing a lot of playing around with it after the one the other night, this one looks better, it is not as flat as the other one. To me this one has more depth then the color one had, it could just be my eyes.

I was trying to find some picture I work with a while back that came out real flat and when I move the light just a little they jumped right out at you. I know I have them somewhere, just got to find them.

Do you use the ALT key when adj. levels ?

I just started and it really helps me from get the blow out. It only works with the left and right arrows. As you move them hold the ALT key down and it will show you the areas that will blow out.

--
No, I'm not a Pro, but I did read the Olympus Talk Forum last night.
Bill Huber, Fort Worth, Tx
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber
 
Try to dodge the light areas, set it to 10 or 15%, highlights only. That might bring it up... another way is to use a gradient map to give yourself the full range of black to white.
dboogie said:
hmmm, I tried going more to the white end but when i do the whites
seem to become blown out. I'll keep trying. thanks for the input

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
Click to expand...
 
Okaaaaay. Sue, although I have improved with my editing, dodging and burning is still one thing I have yet to do. I've never really tried it. Also, I don't know what a gradient map is. I use Paintshop Pro 8, by the way.

Thanks for the recommendations and I WILL take a stab and the dodging and burning to see if I can stumble my way through. I don't know where to even look for the gradient map. Do you use photoshop? where is it located in there?

dboogie

--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
seems like the discussion the other night sparked a little interest for both of us :O)

When you say "when I move the light..." are you talking about physically moving the light in the room in which you're sitting or moving the illumination within the software?

I use PaintshopPro, whenever I adjust curves/levels I just go directly to that tab, click on it, and start adjusting the slider within the window that pops up. I'll see if I can adjust while using the Alt key. thanks for the tip.

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
dboogie,

I like this shot. I don't think it looks flat, but i think it could use a bit more "pop." How do you convert your image to B&W? There are so many ways to make the conversion, and neither way is the best way in every case. Sometimes the auto convert to greyscale is the best, others it is the channel mixer, others it is through an alpha channel. My fav method is using the channel mixer, where I have more control over the mixing of each color layer as it was converted to greyscale. It seems to permit more control to get more contrast, and i think it is contrast that needs to be boosted a bit in this image. Also, I don't see a pure white in your image. i do see pure black. Perhaps if you can do a curves and set a white point, this might give you the boost in contrast needed to give this some pizzaz!

And while I like this shot, i MUCH prefer the color version. I did not get the impression that the image was flat, but i do highly respect Bill's opinion. Perhaps that image too could benefit from a bit more contrast to make it POP!

Cheers,

jim

--
galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/sandman3
 
I thought you had Photoshop so the ALT key I am sure will not work.

I hope I can find then and repost the shots. I was moving the lights, keep the flower and camera just were they were and move my lights. I use the little desk lights. I could not believe the difference in a shift of the light it add so much more to it.

I will tell you straight out this is what I like in the forum, a good back and forth on how to make pictures better...... Thanks for sticking with it.

--
No, I'm not a Pro, but I did read the Olympus Talk Forum last night.
Bill Huber, Fort Worth, Tx
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber
 
Bill Huber said:
I will tell you straight out this is what I like in the forum, a
good back and forth on how to make pictures better...... Thanks for
sticking with it.
Click to expand...
I couldn't have said that any better Bill. I'm with ya maaaan. Taking pictures is a ball of fun for me, but I still like to learn and get better at it. Isn't it a good feeling when you see someone stick with something and though trial and error and sometimes multiple failures, they finally GET what they were trying to do or understand?!?! I LOVE IT!

Yeah, I use Paintshop not Photoshop. Moving your lights CAN have a dramatic effect on the subjects WHOA....lighting. Now thats a whole other monster of a subject there too (hehehehe)

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
I appreciate the look Jim.

I THINK I used auto greyscale on this. I'm still finding my way around PSP8 and I recalled looking for greyscale because its not in the same place as it was in PSP7. So I think i used because I was just so happy when i finally did find it. Yeah, I like converting with the channel mixer too.

I"m gonna go back to the original color version and see if I can rework this photo......i've gotten good info.
Thanks a bunch Jim

dboogie
--
If ya don't use your head, you'll end up using your feet
 
dboogie said:
Okaaaaay. Sue, although I have improved with my editing, dodging
and burning is still one thing I have yet to do. I've never really
tried it. Also, I don't know what a gradient map is. I use
Paintshop Pro 8, by the way.
Thanks for the recommendations and I WILL take a stab and the
dodging and burning to see if I can stumble my way through. I
don't know where to even look for the gradient map. Do you use
photoshop? where is it located in there?

dboogie
Click to expand...
I use Elements, and in there it's under image> adjustment>

I used PaintShop Pro 8 in the beta until the freebie ran out, but I just can't recall where it was in there...

The dodging and burning is easy if you turn the settings waaaay down and adjust for highlights, midtones or shadows. I seem to recall a darker/lighter button in PSP8 that would also touch things up nicely.

I have stumbled my way through and I probably do many things arsebackwards, but as long as I get to where I'm going, I'm happy.
Sue
 
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