Cameranoobie
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I was told that you can actually achieve decent shallow DOF with a camcorder.
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Advantages of DSLRs over Camcorder?
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FLruckas
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uncle dunc
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As the sensor gets smaller, the depth of field gets larger. Getting shallow DOF with a small sensor camcorder would require shooting in telephoto mode. Even then, it's not going to approach the shallow depth of field one would get with a large sensor camera and a low F stop.
The idea that shallow depth of field is "better" is entirely dependent on context. If you want to isolate the subject from the background and/or foreground, you'd want shallow depth of field. If you're shooting an event, you might want everyone in focus so the video is representative of how one would see it in real life.
Cameranoobie
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Cameranoobie
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Yes I am aware of that but there are many owners of the Sony AX53 that say you can actually achieve "decent", not saying great shallow DOF with their camcorders.
So you would have to have the camcorder zoom way in to the subject to achieve it?
uncle dunc
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Yup. The more you zoom in, the less depth of field you get. The problem with zooming in is, any little tiny movement of the camera is going to get magnified by the telephoto lens. Granted, the AX53 has great IS, but camera movement is still going to be an issue when you're zoomed in.
Cameranoobie
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True, plus you would have to shoot your subject from quite the distance. So say you want to shoot something in a smaller space, it wont be possible. You would get close to the object and shoot as zoomed in as you can go, but doubt it would be enough to create shallow DOF.
I wonder how much larger a 1" sensor is compared to a camcorder lens.
ShootMeAlready
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The simple answer is that they dont. Tiny sensors providing better resolution is a cherry pick argument. Ive seen someone compare an Iphone with 4k to a Canon 5DMkiii and claim because on a sunny day it had higher resolution it was better. Yet if you take the Iphone and shoot in low light the footage is unusable. I dont like to shoot sunny day shots with harsh shadows, and always like the interplay of shadow and light. The 5DMkIII with ML can shoot 14bit raw, which is immensely more usable in post, the Iphone is baked in everything and has no latitude.
The lack of lenses also limits a phone camera, there are no ultrawides or fisheye's even as there is no Zeiss or Canon quality glass. Quality glass improves warmth, colour, and coatings address sun flares etc. Bokeh if you use that for video.
Tiny sensors are fine for well lit shots, like for security, surgery, and family picnics.
Perhaps your video subjects are well suited by a 4k Iphone, mine are not.
FLruckas
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Bingo!!!!
The lenses on cellphones have almost no elements. You almost might as well be using reading glasses.
Do it and be done with it!
Exactly. If you're simple needs are for a simple camera like an iphone go for it. But don't come in here with the idea that the simpleton is gonna slay David.
Next you'll be saying the iPhone is better than a RED.
And sometimes, when someone asks a question, they have to be able to accept and understand the answer, instead of fighting with it....
erichK
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That is inaccurate and very misleading. The optics suppliers of top cellphones - Leica, Zeiss, Schneider, Nikon etc. - do not, to the best of my knowledge, make "reading glasses". The Nikon multi-focal, graduated glasses my partner cost close to $1k. The news and reviews of cell phones right here on DPR suggest that they are equipped with something a lot more sophisticated than reading glasses. Aspherical optics, specially formulated optical materials, variable, even dynamically-movable element spacing, and most of all very sophisticated electronic correction - most of which are actually easier with small "lenses" almost completely belie your argument
My background: photographer since 1973, including some pro work. And Pres of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada. Have two serious telescopes and eyepieces with up to a dozen elements, which I clean, collimate and adjust myself.
The latter makes me appreciate what electronics and software can do. "Adaptive optics" allow telescopes to resolve an order of magnitude and more detail than the unaided optics can. Another example - a satellite-based "camera" reading a licence plate. Completely impossible with optics alone. The work on planets of distant stars is similar.
I should have said "Almost seems..." The problem is one of both cost and complexity.
Judging from the pictures and videos our daughter takes with her not-quite-the-latest iPhone, the latest -and its LG, Samsung, Huwei, etc. competitors could actually do quite a lot, in good light.
That is insulting to very dedicated professional musicians.
Huhh? Are we talking about David or Goliath here? Goliath actually didn't have much of a chance, according to current thinking. Afflicted by gigantism, near blindness and lack of coordination. A bit like pitting a modern dslr against a Speed Graphic.
For some things, like fast-moving street photography, probably. And do you actually understand just how electronics-based and electronically complex a RED actually is?
Like most things in real life, the answer is only simple for the simple-minded.
In most cases in real life, almost any record of an event is better than none at all.
ShootMeAlready
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Actually Ive shot short clips of live flamenco using my phone camera. No one was insulted. The phone worked for me because it was well lit, and I was close to the stage unobstructed (no telephoto glass/optical zoom required). There is no latitude in the film, but it was simply me documenting my holiday. Not intended to sell, or make it a professional product. I think your concern should be aimed at your paying customers satisfaction, else youre doing it for your own "fun".
Am I getting your context correct, as you imply that using a 4k iphone is insulting? If you feel so strongly about that, then why go on in this thread?
Except when your shots are the equivalent of nothing at all. I was in Granada on Holiday, walking down from Alhambra on a lovely walk way at night. Tried to use my phone camera to get a shot of the walkway lit by dim lights, as it was rather special. No matter how I configured, it was too much for the sensor. HDR, lit lights with blown highlights, yes I could drop exposure but then everyone walking is in dark shadow and the film has no latitude to recover. The shots that I could get, suffered from shadow banding noise (common with small sensors in low light). No matter what I did it was rubbish. The old axiom is the right tool for the right job, this still applies to iphones. JMHO
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erichK
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I have not explained the context enough. The most important and demanding video I do is continuing attempts to provide high quality live visual recordings of chamber music concerts by professional musicians to accompany the pro level digital sound recording that the group my wife is pianist and artistic director of has been doing for years. We're talking of continuing pieces of music that can go on for as long as fifty minutes in a hushed environment with in front. slightly offside, of a very discerning and attentive audiences. At best, there is a chance to quickly and discretely get up and turn off and on a camera between movements.
That's something that our daughter, who is probably a better photographer than I, and especially adept with her top-tier smartphone, while her aging Canon and Olympus dslr kits stay home, did acknowledge. As I was shooting a twilit scene, I asked why she was asking me to send copies rather than using her device. She replied, "Because even the best cellphone couldn't get the pictures you will, especially if you print them."
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