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SONY RX1 VS SONY A7R + Sony 28mm F/2
- Thread starter SonyRocks
- Start date
Mike Fewster
Forum Pro
Since the original discussion, I have become an A7R2 owner. I intended selling the RX1 to help the purchase. I still can't manage to decide to sell the RX1. It's size/weight /silence/built in flash convenience plus that fabulous lens and IQ still have me reaching for it often in preference to the A7R2.
Since the original discussion I have added an evf to the RX1. Originally I couldn't see much to be gained by the evf. I was wrong. The improvement in bright sun and the increased flexibilty for low angle shots easily justify the purchase and extra size. It makes a superb camera even better.
And I like my A7R2. I have the 35mm 2.8 and the 16-35 and the 24-70F4 Zeiss. and a 70-300 Tamron with adapter that works just fine. The A7r2 goes outback with me when I want those lenses for landscape work but for general shooting, the RX1. I also like the RX1 for night skies.
That’s an amazing price to pick up an RX1RII. The mark two really fixes all the issues I have with my RX1: Better AF, tilty screen, EVF... and an upgraded sensor to boot. Just can’t justify the price.
i think I’ll get the 28/2.0 second hand, play with it on the original A7 and compare to the RX1. I’ll let you guys know what I decide ;-)
If anyone is interested in comparison photos, I could probably post some.
Marc Heijligers
Leading Member
I did a comparison of the two (RX1R and A7RII), as I own both: http://camera.hifivoice.com/Gear/rx1r-vs-a7rii/
The RX1R is smaller, although that doesn't make it pocketable. It will fit in large coat pockets, but you'll need a bag to seriously carry it around. In practice, it feels comparable to the A7 with a 35mm f/2.8 lens, you can carry both of them around in a similar bag ((I use a Lowepro Apex 100).
The RX1 is certainly more smooth in its bokeh rendering than the 35mm f/2.8, but it is not sharper. For bokeh rendering it comes closer to the 28mm f2.0, which is less sharp in the corners, shows onion rings in zoomed in bokeh balls, and will result in an overall bigger setup. Extensive comparisons are referenced on the above page, where you can compare side by side; sharpness and bokeh. A dedicated comparison between the 28mm and 35mm can be found here.
On the downside, the focus of the RX1 is totally unreliable to me, and I got a lot of failures out of it; eyes not sharp (but the ears), or the background sharp instead of the objects in front. This caused a lot of irritation, so when I needed to rely on my camera I took the D800, and eventually switched to the A7, and I hardly used my RX1R anymore (I am going to sell it). The RX1RII seems to be better due to phase AF. I also think that the A7 (especially 2 series) have a better grip for walking around and continuous use, and to keep the camera stable when taking pictures (especially in low light conditions).
If bokeh is your thing, and you like portrait photography, the A7 offers better lenses. E.g. the bokeh as well as the focal length of a 55mm f/1.8 or a 85mm f/1.8 will give you way better results in terms of bokeh and sharpness than what you can get out of an RX1.
The advantage of the A7R is the EVF viewfinder (you can add it to the RX1, but that makes it less compact and transportable - also here an advantage to the RX1RII). Another big advantage is that you have the flexibility to switch to another lens. E.g., if bokeh is your thing, and you want to have a modest size camera, you can make beautiful portraits with a 55mm f/1.8 or 85mm f/1.8. If you would buy the 28mm f/2.0 for general photography, optionally the 35mm f/2.8 for a compact holiday setup or for corner to corner sharpness, and an 85mm f/1.8 for portraits, you have a setup where you can concur almost every situation you can think of (besides safari/birds etc.; but for big teles the size/wight advantage of an A7 becomes a disadvantage).
Last but not least, for general daily photography in the 28-35mm range I find myself using my iPhone a lot. There is of course no depth of field, and an awful low-light performance, but I am not in the situation that I can carry along my camera every day. With some minor post processing, the results do not disappoint. So when I go out for serious photography, carrying along a somewhat bigger setup (A7 compared to an RX1) is not an issue at all.
Hence, I would go for an A7(II or RII), it is more flexible and more reliable.
The RX1R is smaller, although that doesn't make it pocketable. It will fit in large coat pockets, but you'll need a bag to seriously carry it around. In practice, it feels comparable to the A7 with a 35mm f/2.8 lens, you can carry both of them around in a similar bag ((I use a Lowepro Apex 100).
The RX1 is certainly more smooth in its bokeh rendering than the 35mm f/2.8, but it is not sharper. For bokeh rendering it comes closer to the 28mm f2.0, which is less sharp in the corners, shows onion rings in zoomed in bokeh balls, and will result in an overall bigger setup. Extensive comparisons are referenced on the above page, where you can compare side by side; sharpness and bokeh. A dedicated comparison between the 28mm and 35mm can be found here.
On the downside, the focus of the RX1 is totally unreliable to me, and I got a lot of failures out of it; eyes not sharp (but the ears), or the background sharp instead of the objects in front. This caused a lot of irritation, so when I needed to rely on my camera I took the D800, and eventually switched to the A7, and I hardly used my RX1R anymore (I am going to sell it). The RX1RII seems to be better due to phase AF. I also think that the A7 (especially 2 series) have a better grip for walking around and continuous use, and to keep the camera stable when taking pictures (especially in low light conditions).
If bokeh is your thing, and you like portrait photography, the A7 offers better lenses. E.g. the bokeh as well as the focal length of a 55mm f/1.8 or a 85mm f/1.8 will give you way better results in terms of bokeh and sharpness than what you can get out of an RX1.
The advantage of the A7R is the EVF viewfinder (you can add it to the RX1, but that makes it less compact and transportable - also here an advantage to the RX1RII). Another big advantage is that you have the flexibility to switch to another lens. E.g., if bokeh is your thing, and you want to have a modest size camera, you can make beautiful portraits with a 55mm f/1.8 or 85mm f/1.8. If you would buy the 28mm f/2.0 for general photography, optionally the 35mm f/2.8 for a compact holiday setup or for corner to corner sharpness, and an 85mm f/1.8 for portraits, you have a setup where you can concur almost every situation you can think of (besides safari/birds etc.; but for big teles the size/wight advantage of an A7 becomes a disadvantage).
Last but not least, for general daily photography in the 28-35mm range I find myself using my iPhone a lot. There is of course no depth of field, and an awful low-light performance, but I am not in the situation that I can carry along my camera every day. With some minor post processing, the results do not disappoint. So when I go out for serious photography, carrying along a somewhat bigger setup (A7 compared to an RX1) is not an issue at all.
Hence, I would go for an A7(II or RII), it is more flexible and more reliable.
Marc, thank you sooo much. Super useful write up and exactly the kind of comparison I was after. Also, the photo you posted with the comparison to the 28/2.0 is just what I needed to compare. I usually carry the A7 (now replaced with A7rii) along with the RX1, and I'm wondering i keep my old A7 instead of the RX1 then it'll be too clumbersome carrying both A7 and A7rii.I did a comparison of the two (RX1R and A7RII), as I own both: http://camera.hifivoice.com/Gear/rx1r-vs-a7rii/
The RX1R is smaller, although that doesn't make it pocketable. It will fit in large coat pockets, but you'll need a bag to seriously carry it around. In practice, it feels comparable to the A7 with a 35mm f/2.8 lens, you can carry both of them around in a similar bag ((I use a Lowepro Apex 100).
....
Hence, I would go for an A7(II or RII), it is more flexible and more reliable.
My main complaint with my RX1 is that I find the autofocus completely, and frustratingly, unreliable in low light, which is exactly the situation where the RX1 gets most used. However, I adore the rendering from the Zeiss lens, when focus does work... and am worried I'll lose that 'magic' with the cheap 28/2.0 + A7 combo.
I think best for me is to pick up a 2nd hand copy of the 28/2.0 anyway, and see for myself if I can live with the slightly larger / heavier combination... and how much magic i lose. If I could justify it, then of course the RX1rii would be a no-brainer, however as a hobby it's not really sensible for me!
Thanks again,
Rob
--
My photoblog: http://sims.smugmug.com/
My Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robsims/
Marc Heijligers
Leading Member
Hello Rob,
I think you will hardly miss the rendering of the RX1 when you use the 28mm f/2.0, it has a quite similar character to the RX1, only when you zoom in you can see the onion rings in bright bokeh balls.
There is also some advantage when considering the extra pixels of the A7RII (in my case), when you only want to work with one lens, you may want to crop so-now-and-then, and then the extra pixels do make sense.
Adding an 85mm f/1.8 (I bought the Batis 2 years ago; the Sony 85mm f/1.8 makes more sense now; smaller) does not create a huge camera setup as well, and gives you a lot more creaminess and buttery scenes. In combi with a 28mm you probably will have most of your photography covered.
Some people say the Batis 25mm f/2.0 is an even better choice than the Sony 28mm f/2.0, but I was a bit hesitant due to the larger size of the Zeiss lens, and it one step more away from the 35mm (read 32mm) of the RX1.
Honestly, for the price I think the 28mm is unbeatable. Only if you expect razor-sharp wide angle landscapes you'd better look somewhere else (where stopped down it is pretty OK).
The 35mm is sharper. But be aware, Sony lenses may suffer from internal tilted lens elements , so you may have to investigate and swap lenses, so make sure you work with a dealer that is willing to support you here.
I think you will hardly miss the rendering of the RX1 when you use the 28mm f/2.0, it has a quite similar character to the RX1, only when you zoom in you can see the onion rings in bright bokeh balls.
There is also some advantage when considering the extra pixels of the A7RII (in my case), when you only want to work with one lens, you may want to crop so-now-and-then, and then the extra pixels do make sense.
Adding an 85mm f/1.8 (I bought the Batis 2 years ago; the Sony 85mm f/1.8 makes more sense now; smaller) does not create a huge camera setup as well, and gives you a lot more creaminess and buttery scenes. In combi with a 28mm you probably will have most of your photography covered.
Some people say the Batis 25mm f/2.0 is an even better choice than the Sony 28mm f/2.0, but I was a bit hesitant due to the larger size of the Zeiss lens, and it one step more away from the 35mm (read 32mm) of the RX1.
Honestly, for the price I think the 28mm is unbeatable. Only if you expect razor-sharp wide angle landscapes you'd better look somewhere else (where stopped down it is pretty OK).
The 35mm is sharper. But be aware, Sony lenses may suffer from internal tilted lens elements , so you may have to investigate and swap lenses, so make sure you work with a dealer that is willing to support you here.
Again, thank you so much for sharing your views, I think it’s just confirming that I should leave my prejudice behind and try the 28/2.0 on my A7 (Or my A7Rii) and get less caught up with the ‘magic’ of the RX1. It sounds from your experience that I’ll be just as happy with the rendering, and be able to leave behind my pet hates of the RX1 (unreliable AF, no tilty screen - useful for shooting my kids at their level, no EVF for outdoor use).
I also looked through the photos on your site and I’m super impressed how such a well priced (by Sony standards, that is) 28/2.0 gives such pleasing results.
Only size / weight will be the question, for which my only option is to try it.
Last question, do you find colour rendering and micro contrast to be on the same level as the Zeiss? I have the 55/1.8 as well, and although it’s completely subjective I find there’s some kind of ‘pop’ to the way the colours come out. I need less vibrancy/saturation adjustment in LR.
Marc Heijligers
Leading Member
Honestly, I have not so much experience with the 55mm f/1.8 yet. It's smaller DoF does help a lot of course with making objects pop out, and it is very very sharp as well. What I see is that the sort of vibrancy in Sony/Zeiss lenses is mainly due to the contrast, and a less warm redenering of the colours. So indeed, in Lightroom sliders like "Clarity", "Blacks", "Contrast" and "Vibrance" can make the lens results a bit similar. You can make this a default setting, so during import you can get what you are looking for. I always fin myself warming up the photos out of the Sony a bit, they tend to be a bit blue/green compared to for instance Nikon (who do render shadow tones a bit (too) red).
Micro contrast is good, especially if you have the 42MPix resolution of the A7RII.
There is BTW one cons of the A7+28/35 not mentioned. The RX1(R) lens has the option for a pseudo-macro setting, and you can get pretty close to objects. This is not possible with the 28 and 35 mm lenses. Although the extra MPix help you to zoom, you get another perspective/composition, and with the RX1R if you go very close, the bokeh rendering of the background in such a case is nicer as well. In practice, I don't miss it.
Have fun with trying out the 28mm/2.0!
Marc Heijligers
Leading Member
Lucille has some examples to show the pop of the 28mm f/2:
the Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 - a lens I dislike.
...this is precisely why I'm not buying it just yet - I'm afraid I'll love it too much. My 35L was almost permanently glued to my 5DmarkII. Right now I'm enjoying the feel (and output quality) of the CV Nokton 35/1.2 II, which is smaller (but probably not much lighter, if at all) and brigher...
www.talkemount.com
Or have a look around in the Flickr group of the lens:
Hi All,
Just to let you know that I ended up picking up the FE 28/2.0 before Christmas and used it extensively on my A7. I also carry my Zeiss FE 55/1.8 attached to my newer A7rii.
Everything written in the earlier posts has been more or less confirmed, the resolution and contrast (to my eyes) matches the 35/2.0 Zeiss on the RX1, as does the out of focus rendering. Difficult to judge micro-contrast and colour, but as I shoot everything in RAW they'd be very little difference after vibrance and sharpness tweeks. Honesly, I can't tell the difference. One thing that is useful is the marginally wider FOV. 28mm vs. 35mm (probably more like 32mm actually on the RX1). This makes it a better match when shooting the Zeiss FE55/1.8 on my A7rii.
Handling of the A7+28 is (for me) better than the RX1... marginally larger, but better grip and surprisingly close in weight. Also the flippy screen super useful for framing at toddler height. AF is much MUCH better, and dare I say... dependable. I'd always thought of the A7 as a poor AF camera, but forgotten how much worse the RX1 is in low light, and for anything moving (i.e. toddlers!).
I don't want to knock the RX1. It's an amazing tool, and I've enjoyed using it over 4 years immensely. There are still some areas it 'wins' over an A7 + 28 (size, macro...etc), but now back from holidays, the RX1 is going for sale. It's been a fun 4 years, but I will now let someone else enjoy it for its twilight years.
Thanks for all your help!
Last edited:
Ok, good to know!
B
borgein
Guest
The FE 28/2 is a highly underrated lens. It's an immense value for the money, especially if you find a mint used one. I was actually surprised by it's smooth rendering, which is something that I like about it. It might not be the smallest lens, but it's not big either, and it's super light.
Exactly. I picked up a mint copy for 400sgd. Also surprised by its out of focus rendering.
i wasn’t really considering it before, but now I’m tempted to pick up the Wide Angle adaptor. Having a 21mm effectly used as a lens cap would be useful for those occasion where you need wide angle but don’t want the hassle of carrying another lens and changing it.
(I used to do something similar with the 16mm/2.8 crop lens, with the UWA making it a 12mm on aps-c. Super convenient)
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