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Why are the blues so bad on A7riii ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BBQue
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Abrak said:
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
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Yes, that's what I am wondering too. Skin tones look better on A7riii to my eyes - but the sky and the sea are noticeably worse. (All subjective of course).

OSV claims this is all fake and was made to fool the viewers.

Trollmannx has seen similar change in blue with the A7riii but likes it.

I am looking for more opinions on this, ideally from people who recently upgraded or still have both cameras available. THANKS
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All the Sony PP colors are customizable in camera (I notice that I have already reduced the magenta quite a bit from its default). It would seem a lot easier to customize the colors how you want rather than worry if you should like Sony colors or not.
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Can you customize this specifically to one color channel? If you reduce magenta overall in the PP, would it not turn other areas too greenish? How much do you reduce magenta in your PP? What's your experience with this?

THANKS!!!
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If you go to a particular picture profile (PP) you will see that there are a bunch of settings that you can change (and so you can effectively make your own customized picture profile.)

Under 'color depth' you can adjust R, G, B, C, Y, M each separately. I just feel that the Sony colors have something of a magenta cast but it could be me - I feel my Mavic Pro has an even more magenta cast so I reduced that and my adjustment of the Sony colors largely was done to match other output (and honestly, I dont really like magenta). I have boosted the reds and added back some yellow. But I live in Thailand so the light is different in any case and probably, more importantly, I am not dealing with a lot of pastey western skin tones....

If you look at Dave Dugdale's video you can see that there are far more important settings that determine your video look than the individual color settings - gamma, black point, saturation and detail (which should be lowered.) So you can say shoot in Cine4 but raise your black point etc...

--
http://www.salintara.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robcoll/
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That's good to know! I myself am also sensitive to magenta (i.e. don't like it in the sky color especially. Others do). It is also well known that people (males in particular) differ in their sensitivity to red/green contrast so that may be part of why some find it objectionable, others do not.

PS: Great work on your website. Really good !!!!!!!!!
 
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
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The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
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why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
Member said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
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of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.

--
dan
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A) "it serves no purpose" - so what?!
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you don't know anything about editing video, so you don't understand the point that was made there.
Member said:
B) I see the blue text and never claimed otherwise. I am not colorblind. In the image below you see the blue text label A7R2. I don't believe applying tint would cause such strong blue to a pure white text and at the same time have relatively minor effect on the background. I simply don't believe your claim. That's all.
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and i don't believe your claim "why are the blues so bad on a7riii"

no one agrees with that clickbait nonsense title that you posted, lol
Member said:
C) I have no agenda, I am not the author of this video and I make no claims whatsoever. I opened this thread to ask for opinions about this.
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still waiting to see some actual photos that back up what you are claiming...

--
dan
 
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BBQue said:
...I take his word for it, which of the two is the more accurate one.
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Don't.

As noted by others, colour perception (and therefore perception of colour accuracy) is subjective and prone to errors and assumptions. You may not always be able to trust your own eyes perhaps (they can be fooled by context, for example) let alone those of a stranger you've never met. ; )
 
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
Click to expand...
why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
osv said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
Click to expand...
of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.
Click to expand...
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BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
Click to expand...
why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
Member said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
Click to expand...
of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
SilvanBromide said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
Click to expand...
why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
SilvanBromide said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
Click to expand...
of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.

--
dan
Click to expand...
A) "it serves no purpose" - so what?!
Click to expand...
you don't know anything about editing video, so you don't understand the point that was made there.
SilvanBromide said:
B) I see the blue text and never claimed otherwise. I am not colorblind. In the image below you see the blue text label A7R2. I don't believe applying tint would cause such strong blue to a pure white text and at the same time have relatively minor effect on the background. I simply don't believe your claim. That's all.
Click to expand...
and i don't believe your claim "why are the blues so bad on a7riii"

no one agrees with that clickbait nonsense title that you posted, lol
SilvanBromide said:
C) I have no agenda, I am not the author of this video and I make no claims whatsoever. I opened this thread to ask for opinions about this.
Click to expand...
still waiting to see some actual photos that back up what you are claiming...

--
dan
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You are silly. I don't claim anything and I don't have an A7riii camera so I cannot "backup" anything what I am not claiming to begin with. It is useless to argue, cause you claim things I never stated.
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Say what? Your thread title "why are the blues so bad" is predicated on an assumption that the blues are bad. That is a claim, so it's absurd to state that you aren't claiming anything.
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It's not a claim, it is merely an opinion, and if you read through this awful thread which I regret having started, you would see that I stated AT LEAST THREE TIMES that color judgement is subjective, and what looks bad to me, looks good to others. I also stated that the skin colors of A7riii look better in my eyes compared to A7rii in that video. Similarly, this also is not a fact or claim I am making, but merely a subjective opinion.

Anyway, what is you point? How do you want me to "back up" my so-called claim that I do not like the rendition of the blues shown in that video? This discussion has reached a point beyond silliness.
 
BBQue said:
SilvanBromide said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
Click to expand...
why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
Member said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
Click to expand...
of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
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thoth22 said:
Using Dave Dugdale's video for color reference is funny. He is an affable man but his expertise is limited.
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Well the basic premise of the video is to compare A7rii to A7riii colors - this doesnt really require any particular expertise but as far as I can tell, he is the first person to produce this data, so I appreciate it.

As an aside, I tend to respect his 'opinions' - he certainly seems fairly well informed to me. (And looking at your stuff there is little to indicate that you are better informed than him - and therefore I should accept your opinion over his.)
 
I think it's futile to try to define what a "good" or "correct" blue sky is. Blue skies varies a lot in tone and hue - even within the same picture (obvious when using WA lenses). IMHO, the only thing we can do is to correct the WB (provided we want a neutral WB but that's not always the goal) and then "tweak to taste" - whether it's "correct" or not according to whatever definition. Custom profiles will not be of much use, because a profile which made the sky today, this hour and minute, look good to me may not fit the sky tomorrow if I wanted a standardized look of it (which I don't).

--
"Sharpness is a bourgois concept." (Henri Cartier-Bresson)
 
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I always add a bit of Magenta in post. Hate the greenish look.
 
Trollmannx said:
BBQue said:
Trollmannx said:
Want other blues, post process to your own liking - problem completely gone! ;-)
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Thanks, I did not know this...
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Neither did I, had to investigate a lot... :-D
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Yes, I will have to dig deep into the menus of Photoshop and Capture One (which I use daily) to figure this out, hahaha...

More seriously: I should have kept this thread a Two-Part question. A) Do other A7riii users see the red- or magenta-shift in the blues? ...and B) Do you like this?

As for A) OSV claims this is entirely fake and Dave Dugdale made up the whole video just to fool us. You on the other hand apparently see the same color-shift in the blues. So I am waiting (without much hope) for further input from other users.

As for B) "Bad" is obviously a subjective statement. I myself am very sensitive to magenta-tints in the sky or the water, others like you seem to like it. Skin colors look better with A7riii compared to A7rii in that video.
 
SilvanBromide said:
BBQue said:
...I take his word for it, which of the two is the more accurate one.
Click to expand...
Don't.

As noted by others, colour perception (and therefore perception of colour accuracy) is subjective and prone to errors and assumptions. You may not always be able to trust your own eyes perhaps (they can be fooled by context, for example) let alone those of a stranger you've never met. ; )
Click to expand...
 
thoth22 said:
Using Dave Dugdale's video for color reference is funny. He is an affable man but his expertise is limited.
Click to expand...
What flaws or lack of expertise do you detect in this video. What would you have done differently to compare the different color profiles of these two cameras?
 
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