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Why are the blues so bad on A7riii ?

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osv said:
the correct way to have done the edit would have been to make one graphic, with both camera names in it, instead of having two different graphics, with one of 'em somehow being edited or rendered with the same blue tint that was put on the rest of that half-frame.
Click to expand...
If he put a blue tint on half-frame in order to fake this, he would have been smart enough to do like you say: add a single text graph with both titles on top.

It's a strong accusation you are making. I am not ready to go that far. I was hoping some other A7riii owners would "pitch in" if they notice a change in JPG sky color rendition compared to their previous A7rii.
 
Trollmannx said:
Yes I see the color shift (have very good color vision, have even been tested), but my point is that we can not for sure tell what is better or worse...

And I happen to like the A7RIII blues more than the A 7 RII blues. So my opinion is that the new color scheme is better, at least as seen with my eyes and interpreted by my brain...
Click to expand...
OK - great! So you too notice that the blues look different with A7riii but you prefer the magenta- or purple-shift compared to A7rii. Nothing wrong with that. But it seems then, that this video is correct indeed, and not faked like osv seems to think.
 
BBQue said:
osv said:
the correct way to have done the edit would have been to make one graphic, with both camera names in it, instead of having two different graphics, with one of 'em somehow being edited or rendered with the same blue tint that was put on the rest of that half-frame.
Click to expand...
If he put a blue tint on half-frame in order to fake this, he would have been smart enough to do like you say: add a single text graph with both titles on top.
Click to expand...
he certainly wasn't smart enough to fix the blue text on the a7rii half-frame ;-)
Member said:
It's a strong accusation you are making. I am not ready to go that far. I was hoping some other A7riii owners would "pitch in" if they notice a change in JPG sky color rendition compared to their previous A7rii.
Click to expand...
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.

the reason that no one has been able to back up his absurd claim is that there just isn't any blue color problem on the a7riii.
 
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???

Your problem on the other hand is to come up with an explanation why the text is blue shifted while the sky and waters are magenta-shifted.

Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it. Makes me believe that this effect is for real, and not faked.
 
Last edited:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
Click to expand...
why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
Member said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
Click to expand...
of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.
 
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
 
BBQue said:
Compared to A7rii, blues appear severely magenta shifted:

Why is this? Skin tons look a bit better though on A7riii compared to A7rii in this video. Can A7riii owners confirm this observation?
Click to expand...
Quite honestly I prefer the skin tones of the A7RM3, as people look more natural, at least to these eyes of mine on my (calibrated) monitor. ;)

As for the rest, I really can't comment as I wasn't there, so maybe the colours are shifted or not... :)

...And regarding Dave Dugdale's swat shirt, I believe he knows it perfectly well and I don't see any reason for telling us otherwise! :)

...Anyway we all change our photos/videos so much in post-processing that I don't really see a problem with these apparent differences between II and III iterations! :)

All the best,
Pedro
 
Last edited:
osv said:
BBQue said:
osv said:
your problem is that you aren't able to come up with any explanation for why the a7rii text is blue.
Click to expand...
The explanation is simple: he made blue text. And why not???
Click to expand...
why would anyone want to do that? it serves no purpose, which is an automatic fail in the world of video editing.
osv said:
Please also read the comment by Trollmannx above: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60631934

He notices the same color shift in the blues as shown in the video, and he likes it.
Click to expand...
of course there is a blue tint over the entire half-frame, that's never been in question, lol

funny how you argued against it earlier tho; "shifted towards magenta" was your claim, you couldn't even see the blue text and tint, i had to post it twice, to prove you wrong.

strange agenda, and no one has backed up your claims with any actual photos.

--
dan
Click to expand...
A) "it serves no purpose" - so what?!

B) I see the blue text and never claimed otherwise. I am not colorblind. In the image below you see the blue text label A7R2. I don't believe applying tint would cause such strong blue to a pure white text and at the same time have relatively minor effect on the background. I simply don't believe your claim. That's all.

C) I have no agenda, I am not the author of this video and I make no claims whatsoever. I opened this thread to ask for opinions about this.



[ATTACH alt="Skin colors more pleasing on A7riii - "A7R2" label is blue, while the A7r2 video is yellowish"]1929429[/ATTACH]
Skin colors more pleasing on A7riii - "A7R2" label is blue, while the A7r2 video is yellowish
 

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Last edited:
BBQue said:
Trollmannx said:
Yes I see the color shift (have very good color vision, have even been tested), but my point is that we can not for sure tell what is better or worse...

And I happen to like the A7RIII blues more than the A 7 RII blues. So my opinion is that the new color scheme is better, at least as seen with my eyes and interpreted by my brain...
Click to expand...
OK - great! So you too notice that the blues look different with A7riii but you prefer the magenta- or purple-shift compared to A7rii. Nothing wrong with that. But it seems then, that this video is correct indeed, and not faked like osv seems to think.
Click to expand...
Well - the blues are different (very obvious using my screen, my eyes and my brain). But that is no proof of faked or not faked...
 
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Abrak said:
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I am wondering too. Skin tones look better on A7riii to my eyes - but the sky and the sea are noticeably worse. (All subjective of course).

OSV claims this is all fake and was made to fool the viewers.

Trollmannx has seen similar change in blue with the A7riii but likes it.

I am looking for more opinions on this, ideally from people who recently upgraded or still have both cameras available. THANKS
 
Trollmannx said:
BBQue said:
Trollmannx said:
Yes I see the color shift (have very good color vision, have even been tested), but my point is that we can not for sure tell what is better or worse...

And I happen to like the A7RIII blues more than the A 7 RII blues. So my opinion is that the new color scheme is better, at least as seen with my eyes and interpreted by my brain...
Click to expand...
OK - great! So you too notice that the blues look different with A7riii but you prefer the magenta- or purple-shift compared to A7rii. Nothing wrong with that. But it seems then, that this video is correct indeed, and not faked like osv seems to think.
Click to expand...
Well - the blues are different (very obvious using my screen, my eyes and my brain). But that is no proof of faked or not faked...
Click to expand...
Does the difference you see, and which is very obvious on your screen, go in the same direction as shown in the video, i.e. blues shifted towards magenta or purple?

OSV believes that the video is fake, i.e. that the guy applied blue tint to the A7rii just to fool us. I don't see how applying blue tint to A7rii would cause magenta-shift to the A7riii images, but that is apparently OSV's opinion.

Looking for more input from people who recently upgraded or have both cameras available. Your comments here were very valuable to me. THANKS!
 
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I am wondering too. Skin tones look better on A7riii to my eyes - but the sky and the sea are noticeably worse. (All subjective of course).

OSV claims this is all fake and was made to fool the viewers.

Trollmannx has seen similar change in blue with the A7riii but likes it.

I am looking for more opinions on this, ideally from people who recently upgraded or still have both cameras available. THANKS
Click to expand...
Yes - I see some slight difference in the blues, a slight shift towards red.

But the difference is miniscule and would not have been noted without direct comparition. And note that this is VIDEO straight out of the camera.

Do not have the A7RIII but would never give the slight color adjustment a second thought, the grand color sheme is slightly tweaked, but basically pretty much the same.

If serious about color post processing is mandatory. None serious about color would seriously consider out of camera colors as a useful end result.
 
BBQue said:
Tony Jay said:
BBQue said:
Compared to A7rii, blues appear severely magenta shifted:

Why is this? Skin tons look a bit better though on A7riii compared to A7rii in this video. Can A7riii owners confirm this observation?
Click to expand...
Ever heard of DNG profiles?

If one needs accurate colours then this is the way to go.

Of course, accurate colours are not everyone's cup of tea either...
Click to expand...
Agreed! But this was not the topic of the video I linked to... Anyway, seems like my thread is not receiving much love :)
Click to expand...
Well the point is this: no sensor can give objectively accurate colour.

If that is a concern then the solution is a DNG profile.

Any talk based on a subjective view of colour is just that - subjective - everyone has an opinion of course, but they are just that, opinions....
 
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I am wondering too. Skin tones look better on A7riii to my eyes - but the sky and the sea are noticeably worse. (All subjective of course).

OSV claims this is all fake and was made to fool the viewers.

Trollmannx has seen similar change in blue with the A7riii but likes it.

I am looking for more opinions on this, ideally from people who recently upgraded or still have both cameras available. THANKS
Click to expand...
All the Sony PP colors are customizable in camera (I notice that I have already reduced the magenta quite a bit from its default). It would seem a lot easier to customize the colors how you want rather than worry if you should like Sony colors or not.
 
Tony Jay said:
BBQue said:
Tony Jay said:
BBQue said:
Compared to A7rii, blues appear severely magenta shifted:

Why is this? Skin tons look a bit better though on A7riii compared to A7rii in this video. Can A7riii owners confirm this observation?
Click to expand...
Ever heard of DNG profiles?

If one needs accurate colours then this is the way to go.

Of course, accurate colours are not everyone's cup of tea either...
Click to expand...
Agreed! But this was not the topic of the video I linked to... Anyway, seems like my thread is not receiving much love :)
Click to expand...
Well the point is this: no sensor can give objectively accurate colour.

If that is a concern then the solution is a DNG profile.

Any talk based on a subjective view of colour is just that - subjective - everyone has an opinion of course, but they are just that, opinions....
Click to expand...
Completely agree !!! The point of this thread is not which looks better, the point is whether the blues on A7riii are shifted towards magenta compared to A7rii or not. Personally I don't like this, others however do - but that's only subjective opinion, like you say - and was not my intention to open this "can of worms".
 
Abrak said:
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I am wondering too. Skin tones look better on A7riii to my eyes - but the sky and the sea are noticeably worse. (All subjective of course).

OSV claims this is all fake and was made to fool the viewers.

Trollmannx has seen similar change in blue with the A7riii but likes it.

I am looking for more opinions on this, ideally from people who recently upgraded or still have both cameras available. THANKS
Click to expand...
All the Sony PP colors are customizable in camera (I notice that I have already reduced the magenta quite a bit from its default). It would seem a lot easier to customize the colors how you want rather than worry if you should like Sony colors or not.
Click to expand...
Can you customize this specifically to one color channel? If you reduce magenta overall in the PP, would it not turn other areas too greenish? How much do you reduce magenta in your PP? What's your experience with this?

THANKS!!!
 
Last edited:
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
BBQue said:
Abrak said:
First off the color difference between the A7riii and A7rii is very small - only noticeable looking closely at a side by side comparison. It is hardly a ‘severe’ magenta shift.

But the magenta is there in the blues of the A7riii - it is nothing like as noticeable as with my Mavic Pro.

If you notice the skin tones are subtle different too between the A7riii and A7rii - slightly redder, yes yellow. Dave Dugdale even mentions that the look better. Maybe the magenta in the sea is collateral damage from the skin tone adjustment?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I am wondering too. Skin tones look better on A7riii to my eyes - but the sky and the sea are noticeably worse. (All subjective of course).

OSV claims this is all fake and was made to fool the viewers.

Trollmannx has seen similar change in blue with the A7riii but likes it.

I am looking for more opinions on this, ideally from people who recently upgraded or still have both cameras available. THANKS
Click to expand...
All the Sony PP colors are customizable in camera (I notice that I have already reduced the magenta quite a bit from its default). It would seem a lot easier to customize the colors how you want rather than worry if you should like Sony colors or not.
Click to expand...
Can you customize this specifically to one color channel? If you reduce magenta overall in the PP, would it not turn other areas too greenish? How much do you reduce magenta in your PP? What's your experience with this?

THANKS!!!
Click to expand...
If you go to a particular picture profile (PP) you will see that there are a bunch of settings that you can change (and so you can effectively make your own customized picture profile.)

Under 'color depth' you can adjust R, G, B, C, Y, M each separately. I just feel that the Sony colors have something of a magenta cast but it could be me - I feel my Mavic Pro has an even more magenta cast so I reduced that and my adjustment of the Sony colors largely was done to match other output (and honestly, I dont really like magenta). I have boosted the reds and added back some yellow. But I live in Thailand so the light is different in any case and probably, more importantly, I am not dealing with a lot of pastey western skin tones....

If you look at Dave Dugdale's video you can see that there are far more important settings that determine your video look than the individual color settings - gamma, black point, saturation and detail (which should be lowered.) So you can say shoot in Cine4 but raise your black point etc...
 
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