RAW mode to prevent blown highlights ?

The Big Bad

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Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the 10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
 
I was expecting to see a severely blown out shot! It's really not bad at all.

There's no guarantee, but you could do a linear AND a normal conversion from RAW, and combine the two. Breezebrowser gives you the option to do a combined conversion in one process, if you don't have the editing software to layer the two conversions.

TBoyd
http://www.s4avahost.net/~harmonys/Portfolio/index.htm
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
 
RAW should be able to remedy minor cases of blown highlights such as this. However, to play it safe, why not shoot with -1/3 or -2/3 stops in exposure compensation? If you are shooting at ISO 100, there is much more lattitude for under-exposure than for over-exposure.
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
 
This is a good example of where raw would probably have helped, since there's likely less than 1 stop of data that was lost.

On the other hand, I've gotten used to simply dialing down the exposure by about 1/2 stop, which solves almost every problem with blown highlights for me. (sometimes with contrasty sky, I have to dial down further, but I just check right after the shot and if anything flashes, I tweak it down more and reshoot).

And BTW - this was a great shot!
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
--
http://www.pbase.com/stevegrillo , Equipment on profile page
 
So I see I'm not the only one who has to shoot with an exposure adjustment just to keep the histograms in line!

1/2 to 1 stop under keeps my pics OK. If I dont have the exposure compensation I get DREADFUL overexposures, but its erratic. Could be another "bug" for the 10D.

-Pete
 
... is the only way to go! But sometimes you will have little speculars, or other light colored areas (especially in sunlight) that simply cannot be captured given the dynamic range of the camera.
You will get more of it with RAW, however.
Ken
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
--

Wanted: Beautiful young woman to be my wife. Must be obsessive-compulsive about housekeeping.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
 
On the other hand, I've gotten used to simply dialing down the
exposure by about 1/2 stop, which solves almost every problem with
blown highlights for me. (sometimes with contrasty sky, I have to
dial down further, but I just check right after the shot and if
anything flashes, I tweak it down more and reshoot).
Does anyone set the custom function to allow exposure compensation in third-stops? I basically want the camera to capture as nearly as possible to its usual good overall exposure, while avoiding blowouts.

--
[ e d @ h a l l e y . c c ]
 
You might want to read this tutorial on luminous landscape. It explains what is happening, why it is happening, and some choices to avoid it.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

BTW, I don't see the problem with the photo posted. Sometimes I see people who ignor the photo and immediately jump to the 'too soft', 'blown highlights', 'I see CA' stuff. Since I look at the photo first, last, and always it took you pointing out to me the 'blown highlights' (I assume you are referring to the teeth).

As has been mentioned before you can use breezebrowser to do a combined conversion or you can just do it manually by converting normal and then linear, open both in PS, copy the linear image and past it into the normal image, that creates a layer which you can blend to your taste. I believe I saw that a Landscape web site mentioned here a few weeks ago. If I find it, I will post the link to give credit...

HTH

Mike
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
 
I am a little puzzled by the example. When I load it into Photoshop neither the Histogram nor Levels show any pixels at 255 or more.

Frank B
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
 
The area in question was on the side of the face, Ive used some of the clone stamp tool with about 50% opacity to get rid of some of the areas that were just pure white.

I will agree that it doenst really detract from the photo at all, but for me, when i do have a nice shot, i really always want to try to make it as good as can be.

In terms of compensation, i almost always shoot at least -1 or sometimes even more. I find without any comp there are always to many blown highlights

Im also thinking of trying maybe spot mode, but thats pretty tough to meter for action shoots i would think.

Ill try to experiement with some RAW shots to see if i can find an advantage.
 
On the other hand, I've gotten used to simply dialing down the
exposure by about 1/2 stop, which solves almost every problem with
blown highlights for me. (sometimes with contrasty sky, I have to
dial down further, but I just check right after the shot and if
anything flashes, I tweak it down more and reshoot).
Does anyone set the custom function to allow exposure compensation
in third-stops? I basically want the camera to capture as nearly
as possible to its usual good overall exposure, while avoiding
blowouts.

--
[ e d @ h a l l e y . c c ]
Yes, I enable everything to be used in thirds. I find it gives me finer control from aperture and shutter timing, to exposure/flash exposure compensation. You get more and finer increments that result in more possible settings, which equals more control. I have set the custom function to 1/3 increments the day I got the camera and have never used it otherwise.

As far as using exposure compensation (EC), I used to dial in -1/3 to -2 stops depending upon the dynamic of the scene. In the last month though, I find that I don't use EC quite as much or as aggresively as I used to. Now in situations where I would have dialed in small amounts of -EC, I tend to not dial in any, and in situations where I would be more aggressive with -EC, I simply use minimal -EC (-1/3 or -2/3).

To enable me to do this, I simply rely on the way I meter the scene, and/or the metering mode I use. I generaly use evaluative metering, but will also use partial when I am mainly concerned with the subject, such as with portraits.

With evaluative metering, I will meter off a medium to lightest part of the scene depending on the oveall contrast/dynamic of the scene. I will then use levels curves in C1LE to balance the exposure by bringing up the shadows and midtones will maintaining the highlights.

When metering with partial, I will try to meter of an average brightness (or brighter area if contrasty) of my subject and use levels and curves to balance the exposure, but most times in this type of situation I do not find it necessary, as it is very minimal.

In the lion photo to provided as an example, I would guess that these highlights would be fairly simple to recover in C1LE (shooting RAW) as they do not seem to be severly blown. With the exposure warning on in C1LE(similar to the exposure warning on the 10D), I would simply pull down the upper most point (255,255) of the composite curve just to the point where/when the exposure warning dissappeared. It usually requires only the smallest adjustment, and most times the majority of the detail of the blown highlights, if not all, are maintained/recovered. If after making this adjustment, the midtones and shadows were brought down too much, I can simply lighten them within the curve or use levels.

I have had great success with these techniques, and since shooting exclusively in RAW since my 3000th (or so) exposure with my 10D (now approaching 8000), I have saved, recovered or otherwise enhanced several shots that may otherwise have been mistakes/trash.

I have never gone back to shooting jpegs, and I doubt I ever will. The latitude and flexiblity in post-processing RAW files is far too advantageous over that of jpegs for me to ever change. If not for the ability to adjust for and recover poor expousres, but also for the ability to finally tune white (gray) balance in C1LE. Depending on the type of photos I am dealing with, I often only use PS7 to resize and sharpen for web presentation or set up for printing. I only really use PS7 extensively when I am working on portraits or have to do reconstruction due to poor backgrouds and such.

Kevin V
--
Greatest words of wisdom:

First thing, RTFM!! When all else fails, RTFM again!! Then ask questions!

http://www.pbase.com/kevinv
 
I will agree that it doenst really detract from the photo at all,
but for me, when i do have a nice shot, i really always want to try
to make it as good as can be.
It's a very nice shot, and the way you've presented it, I wouldn't consider this a problem at all ! Excellent job!!
In terms of compensation, i almost always shoot at least -1 or
sometimes even more. I find without any comp there are always to
many blown highlights
This is what you'd do in RAW, to prevent blown highlights. It's just you can get away with more of it; when you underexpose in jpeg mode, there's only so much you can bring the shadows back up. You'll have a lot more shadow detail, and the colors in the shadows will be a lot more accurate, shooting in RAW. But you'll still have to underexpose, and then pull the image up, without blowing the highlights in post.
Ill try to experiement with some RAW shots to see if i can find an
advantage.
The advantage is that RAW mode really does record a lot more info, especially tonal range. But you still have to make use of it in Photoshop.

Here's an example for you, before and after:





And how I go about it:

http://valhallaphotos.com/html/Misc/Articles/Workflow.htm

( This page needs to be updated a bit, though ... I'll have a new version up in a few days. )
 
Your explanation was very helpful and cleared up alot about RAW mode. I havent come across anything before that explained how there is more detail and color information that can be "brought up" in RAW vs JPEG. It certainly does make sense though.

I would assume that a good way to work would be to perhaps convert the image twice, once to bring up the shadows and then again for the highlights and do a blended composit in photoshop ?

Disapointingly now i guess my 1gig CF card isnt going to seem as big, and theres yet another software title to purchase, I belive the Capture One is the best raw convertor out right now ?

Thanks for the complements on the image as well. Ive got about 4000 shots of my trip to pittsburgh so look for alot more once i get around to resizing and everything
 
RAW gives you slightly more dynamic range.

Will it preserve highlight details, when they blow out in a JPEG. No.

You mentioned using the clone tool or the selective color. I'd suggest you use an overlay layer. Then paint over the area on your mask where you want to dodge with black paint. If you use a low opacity level for your stroke, something around 15 or 20, you will gradually dodge the area. You'll have a lot more control that way. By using an overlay layer, you can also change the effect later.

Cheers,

Mitch
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
--
Glenn E. Mitchell, II Ph.D.

Photography with Canon 10D, 17-40mm EF 'L' f/4.0, 24-70mm EF 'L' f/2.8, 180mm Macro EF 'L' f/3.5, 100-400mm EF 'L' f/4-5.6, Two Canon EX-550 Flashes, Canon ST-2 Transmiytter, Kirk Dual Macro Flash Bracket, Kirk Telephoto Flash Bracket, Veblon 4-Way Focusing Rail, Sekonic L-408, Gitzo G2220 Explorer, Kirk BH-1, Lowepro Pro Trekker, Pelican 1650 Case.

Astrophotography with 10' Meade LX200 GPS, Canon AE-1, SBIG STV, JMI Hard Case.
 
Yes, shoot raw and you have a little more latitude to correct those few areas of over exposure.

I understand that the 10D tends to overexpose more than the D60 of 1Ds, so dialing back 2/3's might be the answer. I have also found on my D60 that I had to adjust EC for each lens to get the best results.

For example on my 70-200 f/4L I'm usually at 0 to +1/3 on my 24-85 is more like -2/3 to -1/3, for my 50 f/1.4 is darn correct at + -0, now on the 28-135IS is more like +1/3 to +2/3.

You just have to keep watch that histogram (it's there for a good reason).

Do you have info display on to view the histogram after each shot??
Ive mostly always shot in fine jpeg, but lately ive been more and
more annoyed with minor blown highlights in my shots. Usually its
something like just where the sunlight happened to reflect off an
animals back or something minor like that. It just seems to ruin
what would be an otherwise perfect shot.

My question is IF i shoot in raw mode, would i have that much
success in dealing with these blown highlights ?

heres an example photo

http://www.pbase.com/image/21192229

Would i of been able to recover where its blown out on the lions
face ?

I usually try to use the clone stamp or selective color to tone
down the glaring whiteness of those spots but I am hoping RAW is a
better way.

Typically shooting action shots like that, i dont have time to look
at the histogram each shot and while i can get the shot close, its
always just some little thing that still gets past me. The limited
dynamic range of digital can be disapointing like that, as can the
10d's metering. Still a great camera though i think.
--
Troponin (Trop)
'No Limitation is Limitation'
and I still can't spell worth a dang!
 
My 10D has overexposed since day one. Not a problem. I leave the exposure comp on -1/2, and occasionally have to take it to - 1 1/2. I think some of the posts concerning dull, low contrast pictures is due to this. This minor adjustment provides punchy pictures with good saturation.

--
Bill George
http://www.pbase.com/wgeorge/canon_10d
Hawaii-Landscapes-Aerials
http://www.hawaiiscenics.com/
So I see I'm not the only one who has to shoot with an exposure
adjustment just to keep the histograms in line!

1/2 to 1 stop under keeps my pics OK. If I dont have the exposure
compensation I get DREADFUL overexposures, but its erratic. Could
be another "bug" for the 10D.

-Pete
 
Thanks for the explanation. If you have not done so, you may want to experiment with manual exposure mode and take exposure readings of a grey card. You might then be able to use a set consistent amount of exposure compensation. Of course if exposure conditions are constantly changing during the shoot or if the subject is in a different light it may not work for you at all.

Frank B
The area in question was on the side of the face, Ive used some of
the clone stamp tool with about 50% opacity to get rid of some of
the areas that were just pure white.

I will agree that it doenst really detract from the photo at all,
but for me, when i do have a nice shot, i really always want to try
to make it as good as can be.

In terms of compensation, i almost always shoot at least -1 or
sometimes even more. I find without any comp there are always to
many blown highlights

Im also thinking of trying maybe spot mode, but thats pretty tough
to meter for action shoots i would think.

Ill try to experiement with some RAW shots to see if i can find an
advantage.
 
I've been asking the same question on the 1D forum, where
the consensus seems to be "you aren't a pro if you don't use
raw"...

But I actually went out and took back-to-back raw/jpg pics
in manual mode, and then used FV and C1 and Photoshop
to see what I could recover. My scene was shot at 24mm,
containing 1/3 hazy sky, and 2/3 thick Cedar woods with
VERY dark shadows, with the sun at "12 o'clock".

The simple answer was that once you've blown a highlight,
it's gone . You can turn pure white to pure grey, or use
C1, which seemed to throw a blue tint into a hazy, white
sky(?!).

Phil has a page up showing 'highlight recovery' that appears
to substantially darken near -white portions of a white sailboat.
I came close to duplicating this with the jpg image he posted,
but couldn't exactly match it. In his raw, processed image,
mid-tones and shadows were also darker.

I did notice that shadow recovery is much better with raw, and
C1. C1 does noise reduction of some sort, removing the banding
and noise very effectively. FV actually looked worse than jpg,
having more brightness variation pixel-to-pixel.

I'm sticking with jpg, with occasional on-the-fly raw...
 
RAW gives you slightly more dynamic range.

Will it preserve highlight details, when they blow out in a JPEG. No.
Actually it will, within limits of course. This was reported in Phil's review, and I have seen many cases where C1 almost magically restore highlights from a RAW when the extracted JPEG shows blown highlights.
 

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