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Canon XC15 Plunge

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DrDimento

DrDimento

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Hi XC10/15 Users - I am considering the plunge into a Canon XC15 and totally leave DSLR and want to know a few things before placing the order.

Before my questions, here is my shooting genre: 80% Video, 10-15% Photo, 5% Cinema as broadcast programs, events, commercials, and corporate. Would love to hear some thoughts or concerns or cautions from the group on the following questions from those who use the camera?

Here are my questions/concerns:
  1. Does it have Lanc capability?
  2. Is there a zoom rocker/lever or strictly barrel zoom ring?
  3. Filter ring size and can one put on two or three filters?
  4. CFast is only needed for 4K right?
  5. Quality of the 12mp photo images, especially when printing?
  6. Quality of the 8 mp screen grabs compared to the 12mp photo ones?
  7. Image stabilization really effective in both UHD and HD?
  8. Audio quality?
  9. Autofocus hold and zooming 'lock on". (I'm coming from 80D dual pixel.)
I'm coming from Canon's 5D2/3, 80D, and XA20. Please address any you feel you can and thank you in advance to all who respond.

ADDITIONAL INFO: I intend to lighten my load by selling all my EOS cameras and lenses in favor of this awesome spec'd camera and then the XC20 when it comes out this next year unless anyone has a release date for the 20 that would be inside the next few months?

--
Canon Cams/Lenses - 80D, 18-135 f3.5-5.6 IS STM, 70-300 f4.0-5.6 IS, 50 f1.4, 100 f2.8, - FCPX, Lightroom, Photoshop, Sennheiser lavs, Audio-Technica shotguns, Shure handheld, cam dolly
 
Last edited:
DrDimento said:
Hi XC10/15 Users - I am considering the plunge into a Canon XC15 and totally leave DSLR and want to know a few things before placing the order.

Before my questions, here is my shooting genre: 80% Video, 10-15% Photo, 5% Cinema as broadcast programs, events, commercials, and corporate. Would love to hear some thoughts or concerns or cautions from the group on the following questions from those who use the camera?

Here are my questions/concerns:
  1. Does it have Lanc capability?
  2. Is there a zoom rocker/lever or strictly barrel zoom ring?
  3. Filter ring size and can one put on two or three filters?
  4. CFast is only needed for 4K right?
  5. Quality of the 12mp photo images, especially when printing?
  6. Quality of the 8 mp screen grabs compared to the 12mp photo ones?
  7. Image stabilization really effective in both UHD and HD?
  8. Audio quality?
  9. Autofocus hold and zooming 'lock on". (I'm coming from 80D dual pixel.)
I'm coming from Canon's 5D2/3, 80D, and XA20. Please address any you feel you can and thank you in advance to all who respond.

ADDITIONAL INFO: I intend to lighten my load by selling all my EOS cameras and lenses in favor of this awesome spec'd camera and then the XC20 when it comes out this next year unless anyone has a release date for the 20 that would be inside the next few months?
Click to expand...
 
Ludvig said:
DrDimento said:
Hi XC10/15 Users - I am considering the plunge into a Canon XC15 and totally leave DSLR and want to know a few things before placing the order.

Before my questions, here is my shooting genre: 80% Video, 10-15% Photo, 5% Cinema .......
Click to expand...
I had the XC10 so I can answer some of your questions:

1. If you mean LAN cable: No
2. No zoom rocker, just the regular barrel zoom.
3. Filter size is .........
Click to expand...
Excellent response Thank you so kindly The Lanc I was referring to was not a Local Area Network (LAN) port but a port to control the zoom with an external zoom controller which I’ve had on all my former video cameras, a cord and controller which I have two of presently.

From your discussion I’m guessing you either presently have, have had, or have used, an XF400. This is the other camera I have been considering but concerned about the image quality of it’s still Photos. Can you comment on that?

The xf400 attracts me as it looks very much like the XA20 I just sold recently with the hope of upgrading to a larger sensor for better low light, 4K, and larger bit rate for improved imaging. If you have such a comparison and can comment I’d truly appreciate hearing thusly and thanks again
 
DrDimento said:
Excellent response Thank you so kindly The Lanc I was referring to was not a Local Area Network (LAN) port but a port to control the zoom with an external zoom controller which I’ve had on all my former video cameras, a cord and controller which I have two of presently.

From your discussion I’m guessing you either presently have, have had, or have used, an XF400. This is the other camera I have been considering but concerned about the image quality of it’s still Photos. Can you comment on that?

The xf400 attracts me as it looks very much like the XA20 I just sold recently with the hope of upgrading to a larger sensor for better low light, 4K, and larger bit rate for improved imaging. If you have such a comparison and can comment I’d truly appreciate hearing thusly and thanks again
Click to expand...
 
Ludvig said:
the GX10/XF400 has the same sensor as the XC10 so the image quality should be at least as good as that cam.
Click to expand...
Not really, it's still a 1" sensor but it has the excellent dual pixel technology. The XC10 didn't have any phase detection technology. Of course y=the image quality is exactly the same as the XC10, of course.
Member said:
From the XF400 user manual I have found that you can set the Sharpness, Contrast and Color saturation but not the noise reduction (in the Picture Style or Looks section).
Click to expand...
Here is the only but really major limitation. The XC10 had Canon Log profile, the XF400 has Canon Log profile. I saw this excellent video about the XC15 . At 4:27 the reviewer nicely demonstrates how much better image can come from a C-Log profile on a 1"-sensor Canon camera like the XC10. I guess, this C-Log/S-Log is necessary/useful when you are in a situation where you need more dynamic range. All recent Sony cameras have S-Log including the consumer AX700, either.
Member said:
The zoom is internal (doesn't extend in length
Click to expand...
Very good point. The XF400 has excellent power zoom lens with incredible autofocus performance. Check out the 45-second section starting at 2:00 in this dog chasing video ; it's excellent.
Member said:
Also with the excellent AF, viewfinder, articulated LCD, built in ND filters and 4K at up to 60P if needed, it's a pretty complete camcorder.
Click to expand...
Your assessment is exactly as mine, I was experimenting with the camera and it's really brilliant. The only caveat is the missing Canon Log.

--
Thank you for taking the time reading. I use DPReview as my photography/videography blog. If you like it, click Like, or leave some comments.
Have fun on http://www.flickr.com/photos/99398503@N07/sets
 
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If your not stuck on 4k, and your useage indicates to me you might not be... you should look at the c100mk2....

you already have the 18-135 stm Which iirc means you will be able to take full advantage of the excellent af in the mk2... plus of course it’s the aps-c chip which has excellent low light capabilities (I have shot this at a very dark event alongside a gh-5 with its 1 inch chip.... and it blew the gh-5 away noise wise... and the 7dmk2 Which we had used the previous year....)

We picked the camera up recently as a bit of compromise for our 1080p work, and it has rapidly become my favourite bit of kit... price wise I think it’s a bargain... I know it’s not 50mbps, but it blows away our previous canon xf300.

Anyways, just a suggestion, they are stupidly cheap imho right now.
 
Miki Nemeth said:
Ludvig said:
the GX10/XF400 has the same sensor as the XC10 so the image quality should be at least as good as that cam.
Click to expand...
Not really, it's still a 1" sensor but it has the excellent dual pixel technology. The XC10 didn't have any phase detection technology. Of course y=the image quality is exactly the same as the XC10, of course.
havanna60 said:
From the XF400 user manual I have found that you can set the Sharpness, Contrast and Color saturation but not the noise reduction (in the Picture Style or Looks section).
Click to expand...
Here is the only but really major limitation. The XC10 had Canon Log profile, the XF400 has Canon Log profile. I saw this excellent video about the XC15 . At 4:27 the reviewer nicely demonstrates how much better image can come from a C-Log profile on a 1"-sensor Canon camera like the XC10. I guess, this C-Log/S-Log is necessary/useful when you are in a situation where you need more dynamic range. All recent Sony cameras have S-Log including the consumer AX700, either.
havanna60 said:
The zoom is internal (doesn't extend in length
Click to expand...
Very good point. The XF400 has excellent power zoom lens with incredible autofocus performance. Check out the 45-second section starting at 2:00 in this dog chasing video ; it's excellent.
havanna60 said:
Also with the excellent AF, viewfinder, articulated LCD, built in ND filters and 4K at up to 60P if needed, it's a pretty complete camcorder.
Click to expand...
Your assessment is exactly as mine, I was experimenting with the camera and it's really brilliant. The only caveat is the missing Canon Log.
Click to expand...
 
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Member said:
But as you say, the image quality should be pretty similar.
Click to expand...
You said it first, I just agreed and confirmed. With all my respect to Canon engineers, if image quality is really important, I'd pick a recent back-illuminated Sony sensor, which the RX10IV has, for example. These sensors are terrific; honestly, Canon cannot come even close. Canon is not a really a top sensor-maker, Sony is the king today. The Canon sensors are excellent, of course, but they are behind Sony's.
Member said:
The Wide DR picture style takes care of the dynamic range to some point, but of course not as good as a Log profile.
Click to expand...
... far from log profiles, actually, in my opinion.
Member said:
If Canon would have added the Wide DR picture style to the 5D-IV Log upgrade, I would have sent the camera in.
Click to expand...
Why do you need Wide DR when you can have log profile? Color correction is so easy these days with tools like Film Convert .

Anyhow, I had a quick look at ebay, and I found that the prices of Canon XC10 and Canon C100 (including) mark II are falling like stones in the water, The GX10 is 2500 EUR, twice as much as a decent used XC10.

Do you think the GX10 is worth the lot more cash vs the XC10?

I am pretty sure that in 2018/19 Sony, too, is churning out about seven 60/50 FPS 4K cameras. I expect Panasonic to release a new version of the FZ1000/FZ2000 line, too, if Panasonic doesn't make the hilarious mistakes again, that camera is going to be a killer for 60FPS 4K. I'm terribly reluctant to buy a 60FPS 4K camera today, when only the GX10/XF400 and GH5 are available with that feature. If the rumored GH5S had a dedicated 4K sensor with on-sensor phase detect AF technology, that would be awesome.
 
LingoDingo said:
User Review of the New Canon XF400 Camera
Click to expand...
The reviewer is a very nice person, and his major issue was with the touch AF system on the XF400. He wrote:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
If I just tried to do object tracking using the touchscreen, that was also a compromised experience. On my 1DX II all I have to do is touch the screen wherever I want to focus and the camera will lock onto that spot instantly; no crazy hunting for focus. If I want to change what I'm focusing on, I just touch the screen on whatever new thing I want in focus and that's that. Simple. Perfect. But on the XF400, I have to first touch the "focus tracking" button on screen, then touch whatever I want to focus on. If I then want to change the focus to something else, I first have to cancel the tracking of the object I'm currently following, then press the "focus tracking" button again, and then the new object to track. Why would Canon complicate things so much, when they had it working perfectly on the 1DX II?! It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I was experimenting with the touch AF in a store for a couple of hours, and it worked brilliantly, even in the store's dimly lit corners. Reading the reviewer description, I am pretty sure, that he didn't understand how to use the XF400's AF system. The way to configure and operate the XF400 touch AF is different enough from 1DXmarkII to get confused, The guys should have used AF-Boosted MF exactly as explained excellently by Jem Schofield at 3:13 in his excellent video On the 1DXII he didn't use AF tracking, why the hell he wanted to use tracking on the XF400? Possibly he didn't want to, but he wasn't able to figure out how to use this feature of the camera properly. What he wrote about the sequence of cumbersome button presses for enable/disable focus tracking is a total mess. Just watch Jem Schofield video, simply tap around the screen and the camera excellently snaps the focus according to the AF speed setting.

The other issue he wrote about was
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
LingoDingo said:
BECAUSE TO CHANGE THE BATTERY I HAVE TO REMOVE THE CAMERA FROM THE TRIPOD AND EVEN REMOVE THE TRIPOD PLATE! The button to eject the battery is below the battery compartment. I had a standard length Manfrotto tripod plate
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I used a Manfrotto BeFree , a perfect tripod for this camera, it's plate is perfect for the XF400 to change battery easily in 20 seconds.

--
Thank you for taking the time reading. I use DPReview as my photography/videography blog. If you like it, click Like, or leave some comments.
Have fun on http://www.flickr.com/photos/99398503@N07/sets
 
Last edited:
Miki Nemeth said:
Ludvig said:
the GX10/XF400 has the same sensor as the XC10 so the image quality should be at least as good as that cam.
Click to expand...
Not really, it's still a 1" sensor but it has the excellent dual pixel technology. The XC10 didn't have any phase detection technology. Of course y=the image quality is exactly the same as the XC10, of course.
havanna60 said:
From the XF400 user manual I have found that you can set the Sharpness, Contrast and Color saturation but not the noise reduction (in the Picture Style or Looks section).
Click to expand...
Here is the only but really major limitation. The XC10 had Canon Log profile, the XF400 has Canon Log profile. I saw this excellent video about the XC15 . At 4:27 the reviewer nicely demonstrates how much better image can come from a C-Log profile on a 1"-sensor Canon camera like the XC10. I guess, this C-Log/S-Log is necessary/useful when you are in a situation where you need more dynamic range. All recent Sony cameras have S-Log including the consumer AX700, either.
havanna60 said:
The zoom is internal (doesn't extend in length
Click to expand...
Very good point. The XF400 has excellent power zoom lens with incredible autofocus performance. Check out the 45-second section starting at 2:00 in this dog chasing video ; it's excellent.
havanna60 said:
Also with the excellent AF, viewfinder, articulated LCD, built in ND filters and 4K at up to 60P if needed, it's a pretty complete camcorder.
Click to expand...
Your assessment is exactly as mine, I was experimenting with the camera and it's really brilliant. The only caveat is the missing Canon Log.
Click to expand...
 
NottsPhoto said:
If your not stuck on 4k, and your useage indicates to me you might not be... you should look at the c100mk2....

you already have the 18-135 stm Which iirc means you will be able to take full advantage of the excellent af in the mk2... plus of course it’s the aps-c chip which has excellent low light capabilities (I have shot this at a very dark event alongside a gh-5 with its 1 inch chip.... and it blew the gh-5 away noise wise... and the 7dmk2 Which we had used the previous year....)

We picked the camera up recently as a bit of compromise for our 1080p work, and it has rapidly become my favourite bit of kit... price wise I think it’s a bargain... I know it’s not 50mbps, but it blows away our previous canon xf300.

Anyways, just a suggestion, they are stupidly cheap imho right now.
Click to expand...
 
LingoDingo said:
User Review of the Canon XC10 and XC15 Cameras
Click to expand...
This is even more interesting, it was really interesting to read what they wrote.

The primary camera these guys used was $9999 C300mII with regular cheap photography lenses. I find it quite weird when someone is buying only half part of a system. I simply don't get whey didn't they buy $5000 proper video lenses (+ $5500 Canon CN-E 70-200mm T4.4 Compact-Servo Cine Zoom Lens ) for this ten-thousand camera?

The final conclusion from these guys were to go for the $3500 HD-only C100mII. I had the XC10 in my hands only for a short time, but what they wrote about the cumbersome menu settings is simply nonsense. Every camera has one or a couple of ways to use optimally, these guys were not able to learn how to use properly the XC10. I simply didn't understand how the hell they wanted to use the XC10 with its 1" sensor and dead slow F5.6 lens into low-light situation? Their expectations were totally wrong, the behaved like complete amateurs.

When they started writing about including Canon M5 and M6 into their workflow, it was just nonsense, these cameras have really poor (HD-only) video. I liked, though, that they love the Rode VideoMic Pro +, too. I am a fan of this mike, too, and I sold my expensive XLR gear, when I bought the VMP+.

The review was written in July 2017, and they wrote about the RX10mII, which had really issues, sure. This was the reason Sony shortly released the RX10m3, and in September the RX10m4 with excellent touch operable snappy AF, great image stabilization, f2.4 - f4.0 lens, which are now really excellent. I had no clue what issues do they have with the Sony XLR adapter, definitely, they must have messed something with it. The RX10IV is the best camera today for "Multimedia Journalists seeking digital media convergence". If Panasonic was willing to add phase detection video technology to the FZ2000's sensor, that camera would be my pick.

The Canon C200 is $7500, it was mentioned a couple of times as a XC10 replacement. I don't really believe that expensive gear is absolutely required for "converging media journalism". I love the works of Jason N. Parkinson He has been using a $2500 Sony X70, and he is just migrating over to the newly announced $2800 Z90. I am pretty sure that most media journalism can be nicely done even with the gorgeously simple still powerful $900 Sony AX53.

Nevertheless, it was a joy to read that overview. I am on vacation, and now I have some time to review what new developments happened this year.

If RX10IV was not powerful enough for low-light situations, I'd suggest the $1800 (camera + lens) Sony A6500 with the PZ18-105/f4 OSS lens as the most versatile affordable media journalism solution today. If you have some more money and you'd prefer professional lenses the $1200 A6500 with the $3400 PZ18-110/f4 OSS would be another option.
 
Miki Nemeth said:
LingoDingo said:
User Review of the Canon XC10 and XC15 Cameras
Click to expand...
This is even more interesting, it was really interesting to read what they wrote.

The primary camera these guys used was $9999 C300mII with regular cheap photography lenses. I find it quite weird when someone is buying only half part of a system. I simply don't get whey didn't they buy $5000 proper video lenses (+ $5500 Canon CN-E 70-200mm T4.4 Compact-Servo Cine Zoom Lens ) for this ten-thousand camera?
Click to expand...
The lenses they are using are more than capable of doing the job... in fact there resolving power is way beyond needed...

plus of course they are fast, unlike the one you cited... plus of course no pro has a limitless budget.

havanna60 said:
The final conclusion from these guys were to go for the $3500 HD-only C100mII. I had the XC10 in my hands only for a short time, but what they wrote about the cumbersome menu settings is simply nonsense. Every camera has one or a couple of ways to use optimally, these guys were not able to learn how to use properly the XC10. I simply didn't understand how the hell they wanted to use the XC10 with its 1" sensor and dead slow F5.6 lens into low-light situation? Their expectations were totally wrong, the behaved like complete amateurs.

When they started writing about including Canon M5 and M6 into their workflow, it was just nonsense, these cameras have really poor (HD-only) video. I liked, though, that they love the Rode VideoMic Pro +, too. I am a fan of this mike, too, and I sold my expensive XLR gear, when I bought the VMP+.

The review was written in July 2017, and they wrote about the RX10mII, which had really issues, sure. This was the reason Sony shortly released the RX10m3, and in September the RX10m4 with excellent touch operable snappy AF, great image stabilization, f2.4 - f4.0 lens, which are now really excellent. I had no clue what issues do they have with the Sony XLR adapter, definitely, they must have messed something with it. The RX10IV is the best camera today for "Multimedia Journalists seeking digital media convergence". If Panasonic was willing to add phase detection video technology to the FZ2000's sensor, that camera would be my pick.

The Canon C200 is $7500, it was mentioned a couple of times as a XC10 replacement. I don't really believe that expensive gear is absolutely required for "converging media journalism". I love the works of Jason N. Parkinson He has been using a $2500 Sony X70, and he is just migrating over to the newly announced $2800 Z90. I am pretty sure that most media journalism can be nicely done even with the gorgeously simple still powerful $900 Sony AX53.

Nevertheless, it was a joy to read that overview. I am on vacation, and now I have some time to review what new developments happened this year.

If RX10IV was not powerful enough for low-light situations, I'd suggest the $1800 (camera + lens) Sony A6500 with the PZ18-105/f4 OSS lens as the most versatile affordable media journalism solution today. If you have some more money and you'd prefer professional lenses the $1200 A6500 with the $3400 PZ18-110/f4 OSS would be another option.
Click to expand...
 
Ps... we have owned the a6300 and a6500... and they are ok for daylight, but not great for lowlight, plus they are not up to hard full time professional use. Nice picture quality, but not the ultimate multimedia camera..
 
Miki Nemeth said:
LingoDingo said:
User Review of the New Canon XF400 Camera
Click to expand...
The reviewer is a very nice person, and his major issue was with the touch AF system on the XF400. He wrote: . . .

I was experimenting with the touch AF in a store for a couple of hours, and it worked brilliantly, even in the store's dimly lit corners. Reading the reviewer description, I am pretty sure, that he didn't understand how to use the XF400's AF system. The way to configure and operate the XF400 touch AF is different enough from 1DXmarkII to get confused, The guys should have used AF-Boosted MF exactly as explained excellently by Jem Schofield at 3:13 in his excellent video . . .

I used a Manfrotto BeFree , a perfect tripod for this camera, it's plate is perfect for the XF400 to change battery easily in 20 seconds. . . . .
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response. That focus video is amazing. I can't wait to take a hard look at this tool. I doubt that feature comes with the XC15 hey? Also, that Manfrotto BeFree is the ticket. I'm selling my heavier Manfrotto 230 with the 701hdv head. Can't wait to see that in my stocking. Thanks for the input.
 
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