S400 perfect fit for all

Shotgun Charlie · Sep 8, 2003

Good morning, Olyman:

I bought my case on eBay at somewhat less cost than the camera stores when shipping is included. The case is very worthwhile and no bother. I just slip an extra battery and CF card (in its small case) in my pocket.

Cheers and thanks for your response.

olyman said:
Shotgun Charlie said:

Good morning, olyman:

Click to expand...

olyman said:

carry my S400 on my belt in the small Canon PSC-50 (?) case with
an extra battery and CF card in my pocket.

Click to expand...

Shotgun Charlie

As I said in an earlier posting, the s-400 is at the upper limits
of pocketability for me. Truly the most pocketable and , don't know
its their camera, is the casio exilim S2, its less than one half
inch thick, and for me the thickness of a camera determines
wheather its pocketable or not. However The image quality of the
the S-400 is far superior , so I usually carry it over the exilim.

I may check into the case you describe above, theres times I think
I'd like carrying the 400 on my belt.

cheers
olyman

riley · Sep 8, 2003

S.C.

...this all reminds me of a bumper sticker my boss had on the back of his car (when i was younger i always used to think 'old' people were bitter, ancient relics that were no use to society......now i are one):
"old age and treachery will overcome youth and vitality"

the single biggest thing i find about (basically) all digital cameras is the amount of fun and interest they have put back into photography for me. i used to carry enough gear to break the back of a pack mule, then we purchased a pentax iq zoom when our daughter was born and i began using that almost all the time. i sold off all my 'real' gear, and when ebay came around, i built and sold off several dream systems over the course of 3-4 years; i just got tired of hauling heavy stuff around when that pentax could come so close. then i bought my first digital, and the rest is history. i now have more control over the entire process, i have no one to question or plead with to get good final images but me and i can be as fast or slow about things as i want.

i also revel in the way that so many people are getting turned on to photography that never would have otherwise. i think more raw photographic talent is coming forth that never would have, otherwise. i also thing more meaningful moments are being captured now that at any other time in history; anyone with a computer can get in on the act. kids think you're nuts if you shoot them with film and they can't see the image right away.

i still have some old canon fd gear around, and i shoot some slides every now and then, but i can feel a DSLR around the corner. that said, i think that the s400 will always be hear, along with the g2. thanks for your time.

Shotgun Charlie said:
Thank you, Riley, for your kind comments and observations. We
agree completely, this is very refreshing. The end image is what
counts and what is behind the camera creates the image. Virtually
all cameras will do the job, it's the photographer that counts, the
camera is just the means to convert what the mind sees to an image
that can be shared.

Good luck wiith your photograghy, I have had more fun, and better
results, with my so called "snap shooter" S400 than I have had in
years.

Cheers . . .

riley said:

shotgun-
i cannot believe how long this thread has lasted. yours is a post
that finally prompted me to response. thank you for your voice of
calm and reason.
just like in my other passion (bicycling), the question is
constantly asked 'what's the best......." and the far too seldom
response is, the best camera, bike, shotgun, whatever is the one
you own and use. posting this stuff is fine, but i'd rather be out
making images.
for the record, i've owned about every 2 series camera canon has
made since the s110, and i find the s400 to be superb. yes it has
its limitations, but i have it with me, and if forced, can make
almost any shot (in some case it takes some creativity). i have
found that the biggest image difference between the s series and
the g series cameras to be in the image contrast (something we used
to pay a lot of attention to in 35mm photography). the sharpness
is well understood, the nod going slightly to the g series in the
corners.
i remember a photography class i had back in about '81. everyone
was working on the zone system with their own personal camera,
trying to calibrate the meter with a specific b/w film. there was
a lady in there with a truly beat pentax spotmatic. it had a lazy
mirror return, the leatherette was pealing, the lens was gritty.
she dialed it in so she could work the exercises, and every week
blew everyone else out of the water. there were people in there
that could not believe it, but of course the instructor loved it
because it supported his theorem: the best camera is the one you
have. the photographer makes the image, the camera simply records
it.
anyone can dig in their heels and make their case about how great a
camera is or is not, but you cannot stop pure talent and will when
a person is committed to making great images. hopefully no one
that owns this swell camera (or any other, for that matter) will
read too much into some of these posts. i think it's wonderful to
go out on pbase or photosig and see what a crafty, talented artist
can do with vision, will and technique.

Click to expand...

Mike Hunt · Sep 9, 2003

dchao said:
You really enjoy having a good argument, don't you, but please stop
contradicting yourselves, it makes your argument very weak.

Where did I contradict myself?

dchao said:
Mike Hunt said:

No, you've merely illustrated the bleeding obvious, that it can
take nice quality snapshots. You have most certainly not shown that
the camera is useful or helpful.

Click to expand...

mofongo certainly doesn't have to proof to you that S400 is useful
or helpful, because in your own post you said:

"The S400 is meant for snapshots. It's limited controls present a
challenge for creative photography, rather than providing a helpful
tool."

Right, but I was then responding to mofongo's comment that, "the S400 can be a useful and helpful tool."

I was stating that the S400 takes very nice snapshots, and that its small size can be helpful, but nothing more. It's limited battery life, nonexistent creative exposure controls, and other limitations render it a burden rather than an aid to creative photography.

dchao said:
Now, is the S400 a helpful tool or not? What are you talking about?

It is an easy to use and very compact camera capable of taking ncie quality photos.

it is NOT a serious photographer's tool because of the aforementioned limitations.

Mike Hunt · Sep 9, 2003

Mofongo said:
Mofongo said:

Mike Hunt wrote:

The vast majority of people shopping for a camera are not
intentionally seeking out one that will make it harder for them to
take pictures.

Click to expand...

Mike,
I use a DSLR in full manual mode also...nothing hard at all about
taking photos with the S400...couldn't be easier!

Coulodn't be easier when conditions are ideal and when creative control isn't desired or required.

I've already explained, repeatedly and at great lengths, the situations in which the S400 will prove limiting and/or frustrating.

Mofongo said:
Mofongo said:

They want the opposite - a camera that gives them
the best possible tools to handle the widest variety of situations
as well as possible.

Click to expand...

Who are "they" that you speak of?...in a camera this small and
convenient to carry in your pocket (which is what people want when
they buy the S400), it is one of the best possible tools and
handles a wide variety of situations quite easily....

We weren't talking about poeople buying the S400. We were taljing about people buying cameras in general.

You made the ludicrous comment: "what's wrong with a challenge?" when I explained how the S400's extensive limitations would make creative photography more difficult.

Mofongo said:
Yes, like all cameras it has limitations...

A snapshooter won't miss most of them and a decent photographer
will be able work around them most of the time...

Every camera has pros and cons. Not all cameras are ideal for all situations. Some cameras are more versatile and useful in a wider variety of situations. Cameras like the G3 can do things and perform in a wode variety of situations where the S400 would be utterly useless.

The single and only situation in which the S400 would have an advantage over the G3 is one where a pocket camera would be required yet the conditions did not demand any of the versatility or control of the G3.

Mofongo said:
Mofongo said:

The challenge should be in finding intersting subjects, lighting,
composition, and moments in time and capture them in an
interesting, original, attractive way.

Click to expand...

Exactly! This is what the S400 allows me to do when I don't feel
like carrying my DSLR...

You can do the same with ANY camera. The difference is that some cameras allow to to exploit MORE situations in MORE ways.

Mofongo said:
I've gotten so many comments from people
that were amazed by the kinds of photos I have taken with this
little camera...

You sound like a parrot on crack. Stop repeating the bleeding obvious. Nobody is questioning the quality of the S400's images under normal shooting conditions.

Mofongo said:
of course I would never expect any nice comments
from you cause you seem to have an agenda against the S400 and
think it can only achieve snapshots even when showed artistic
photos from others on the forum and myself

If I showed you a collection of gallery quality, award winning photos taken with a $10 plastic disposable camera, would that convince you that that camera was every bit as good as your precisou S400?

One can create art out of anything. That doesn't mean that all artist's tools are equally capable or suitable for a given task

We're talking about versatility and control.

I've wasted way more time on you than you or your repetitive and moronic arguments deserve...

Mike Hunt · Sep 9, 2003

dchao said:
Mofongo wrote:

"Yes, it's a simple camera...simply awesome!

dchao said:
simplicity is one of the keys to photography".

Is he trying make this camera into something? I don't think so.

Read both of our comments more carefully.

I have repeatedly said that the S400 is great for snapshots.

He, and a couple of others, keep insisting that the S400 is just as good a camera as a G3 and that there's nothing you can't do on an S400 that you can on a G3.

Please brush up on your English reading comprehension skills before you go around making cxomments about what people have or haven't said.

Mike Hunt · Sep 9, 2003

Shotgun Charlie said:
The photographer makes the photo GREAT, the camera is only a means to the end.

That may be the case, but we're not debating that.

The issue is which camera would be best in the hands of any given photographer. The answer is that it depoends on the interests and inclinations of that photographer.

All else being equal, not every camrea will perform equally in every situation.

Mike Hunt · Sep 9, 2003

This is avery elitist and snobbish atitude.

Not everyone has the time or the interest to dedicate themselves to the same goals as you. Cameras are desiogned and used by a wide variety of people with widely varying ambitions and skill levels.

I've seen some closed minded people, but you take the cake.

I'm sorry if the 21st century is a little too gadget- and techno-centric for your taste, but you're fighintg an arrogant and unwinnable battle if you think everyone is suddenly going to forget technology and bow down before your ancient wisdom and experience.

Shotgun Charlie said:
Thank you, Riley, for your kind comments and observations. We
agree completely, this is very refreshing. The end image is what
counts and what is behind the camera creates the image. Virtually
all cameras will do the job, it's the photographer that counts, the
camera is just the means to convert what the mind sees to an image
that can be shared.

Good luck wiith your photograghy, I have had more fun, and better
results, with my so called "snap shooter" S400 than I have had in
years.

Cheers . . .

riley said:

shotgun-
i cannot believe how long this thread has lasted. yours is a post
that finally prompted me to response. thank you for your voice of
calm and reason.
just like in my other passion (bicycling), the question is
constantly asked 'what's the best......." and the far too seldom
response is, the best camera, bike, shotgun, whatever is the one
you own and use. posting this stuff is fine, but i'd rather be out
making images.
for the record, i've owned about every 2 series camera canon has
made since the s110, and i find the s400 to be superb. yes it has
its limitations, but i have it with me, and if forced, can make
almost any shot (in some case it takes some creativity). i have
found that the biggest image difference between the s series and
the g series cameras to be in the image contrast (something we used
to pay a lot of attention to in 35mm photography). the sharpness
is well understood, the nod going slightly to the g series in the
corners.
i remember a photography class i had back in about '81. everyone
was working on the zone system with their own personal camera,
trying to calibrate the meter with a specific b/w film. there was
a lady in there with a truly beat pentax spotmatic. it had a lazy
mirror return, the leatherette was pealing, the lens was gritty.
she dialed it in so she could work the exercises, and every week
blew everyone else out of the water. there were people in there
that could not believe it, but of course the instructor loved it
because it supported his theorem: the best camera is the one you
have. the photographer makes the image, the camera simply records
it.
anyone can dig in their heels and make their case about how great a
camera is or is not, but you cannot stop pure talent and will when
a person is committed to making great images. hopefully no one
that owns this swell camera (or any other, for that matter) will
read too much into some of these posts. i think it's wonderful to
go out on pbase or photosig and see what a crafty, talented artist
can do with vision, will and technique.

Click to expand...

Isabel Cutler · Sep 9, 2003

at http://www.pbase.com/cameras

I came across a WONDERFUL gallery of truly professional pictures. They were yours!
Isabel

--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/?yguid=11497599
pBase supporter

olyman · Sep 9, 2003

I never searched pbase for camera specific pictures before but If you want to see a classic example of lots of fun pictures.
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/powershot_s400

Comparing S-400 galleries with others. I think its very obvious which camera has got the most fun factor. nuf said.
--
cheers
olyman

Mofongo · Sep 9, 2003

Mike Hunt said:
Mike Hunt wrote:

Coulodn't be easier when conditions are ideal and when creative
control isn't desired or required.

The S400 and any other camera can be used in less then ideal conditions to achieve creative artistic photos beyond the realm of "simple snapshots"...

Mike Hunt said:
I've already explained, repeatedly and at great lengths, the
situations in which the S400 will prove limiting and/or frustrating.

Each camera will face situations that will prove limiting and or frustrating...

The trick is to use your own creativity to work around them...

The idea is to focus more on the positive features and be creative with your composition...

Mike Hunt said:
We weren't talking about poeople buying the S400. We were taljing
about people buying cameras in general.

So what...in general, many (not all) people find a camera like the S400 a very useful and creative tool to carry in there pockets...

Mike Hunt said:
You made the ludicrous comment: "what's wrong with a challenge?"
when I explained how the S400's extensive limitations would make
creative photography more difficult.

What is so ludicrous about that coment? You see half empty, others see half full...I love the challenge (not really difficult either) of taking artistic creative photos with a "simple snapshot" camera...

There is more to being creative in photography than adjusting aperture and shutter speed...composition is where most of the creativity should come from and the S400 happens to have a great anti glare coated LCD that is usable outdoors in bright sunlight...no it doesn't have a flip screen LCD but that doesn't stop me and others from taking creative low angle photographs...

Mike Hunt said:
Every camera has pros and cons. Not all cameras are ideal for all
situations. Some cameras are more versatile and useful in a wider
variety of situations.

Exactly, this is a given that we all know...no debate...

Mike Hunt said:
Cameras like the G3 can do things and
perform in a wode variety of situations where the S400 would be
utterly useless.

I wouldn't say useless but I will agree that my E-10 or a G-3 would be a better choice in some situations...but than again I can't carry my E-10 in my pants pocket...(What would people think?:> ))

Mike Hunt said:
The single and only situation in which the S400 would have an
advantage over the G3 is one where a pocket camera would be
required yet the conditions did not demand any of the versatility
or control of the G3.

Mike, we are not comparing the S400 to your G3, is that what this is all about for you?...I don't even agree with the original posters subject line that the S400 is a perfect fit for all...I do know that it is a great fit for me and compliments my E-10 and C-2100 very nice for when I want to travel light and still be able to take high quality creative photos or simple snapshots, it's capable of both...yes I can do more with my E-10 and Uzi in some situations but that does not prevent me from using my S400 as a useful and helpful creative tool...

Mike Hunt said:
You can do the same with ANY camera. The difference is that some
cameras allow to to exploit MORE situations in MORE ways.

Exactly...

Mike Hunt said:
You sound like a parrot on crack.

This is too funny...thanks again for the laugh cause it reminds me of you...remember that when you are pointing your finger at me you have three fingers pointing back at you... ;> )

Mike Hunt said:
Stop repeating the bleeding
obvious. Nobody is questioning the quality of the S400's images
under normal shooting conditions.

So what is your point?

Mike Hunt said:
If I showed you a collection of gallery quality, award winning
photos taken with a $10 plastic disposable camera, would that
convince you that that camera was every bit as good as your
precisou S400?

Precisou? Is that the Italian name for the S400?... ;> )

Of course not but I would not repeatedly argue that his camera was only capable of taking simple snapshots....

Mike Hunt said:
One can create art out of anything. That doesn't mean that all
artist's tools are equally capable or suitable for a given task...

No one here is saying all artists tools (or cameras) are equal or suitable for a given task...different strokes...

Mike Hunt said:
We're talking about versatility and control....

Versatility and control...so we can't control shutter speeds (except for night shots) or aperture but we can still control the outcome of our photos in many instances...

I've taken nightshots, action pans, macros, portraits, IR... sounds versatile to me...granted if I wanted to shoot a waterfall with silky water from a slow shutterspeed my E-10 would be a better choice although I could use an ND filter held in front of the S400 lens while on my mini tripod...No I can't control DOF for a blurred background in a portrait but can do it in Photoshop...

Mike Hunt said:
I've wasted way more time on you than you or your repetitive and
moronic arguments deserve...

And I've wasted enough of my time with yours...

Mike, the biggest flaw with your case against the S400 is that you continually incorrectly state that the camera is incapable of making nothing more that simple snapshots...

Please show us some examples of your work that are above and beyond simple snapshots so we can see what you are refering to...

Have a great night Mike,

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/mofongo

riley · Sep 9, 2003

yawn.

and i quote: "I was stating that the S400 takes very nice snapshots, and that its small size can be helpful, but nothing more. It's limited battery life, nonexistent creative exposure controls, and other limitations render it a burden rather than an aid to creative photography." sound familiar?
sounds kind of "closed minded" to me. pretty "snobbish" too.

well, now that you've cleared the air on the capabilities of this camera, i guess we can all toss them in the trash and wait for your infinite wisdom on what we should buy, how we should use it and whether we can be "creative" or not with it, or maybe just be banished eternally as plain old snap shooters.

oh, and we better get a hold of all these camera manufacturers and have them stop calling anything small something else besides a "camera." pbase and photosig should probably be altered, too, so as not to let any neophytes post any images.
my god, i sure hope you don't have a twin.

Mike Hunt said:
Not everyone has the time or the interest to dedicate themselves to
the same goals as you. Cameras are desiogned and used by a wide
variety of people with widely varying ambitions and skill levels.

I've seen some closed minded people, but you take the cake.

I'm sorry if the 21st century is a little too gadget- and
techno-centric for your taste, but you're fighintg an arrogant and
unwinnable battle if you think everyone is suddenly going to forget
technology and bow down before your ancient wisdom and experience.

Shotgun Charlie said:

Thank you, Riley, for your kind comments and observations. We
agree completely, this is very refreshing. The end image is what
counts and what is behind the camera creates the image. Virtually
all cameras will do the job, it's the photographer that counts, the
camera is just the means to convert what the mind sees to an image
that can be shared.

Good luck wiith your photograghy, I have had more fun, and better
results, with my so called "snap shooter" S400 than I have had in
years.

Cheers . . .

riley said:

shotgun-
i cannot believe how long this thread has lasted. yours is a post
that finally prompted me to response. thank you for your voice of
calm and reason.
just like in my other passion (bicycling), the question is
constantly asked 'what's the best......." and the far too seldom
response is, the best camera, bike, shotgun, whatever is the one
you own and use. posting this stuff is fine, but i'd rather be out
making images.
for the record, i've owned about every 2 series camera canon has
made since the s110, and i find the s400 to be superb. yes it has
its limitations, but i have it with me, and if forced, can make
almost any shot (in some case it takes some creativity). i have
found that the biggest image difference between the s series and
the g series cameras to be in the image contrast (something we used
to pay a lot of attention to in 35mm photography). the sharpness
is well understood, the nod going slightly to the g series in the
corners.
i remember a photography class i had back in about '81. everyone
was working on the zone system with their own personal camera,
trying to calibrate the meter with a specific b/w film. there was
a lady in there with a truly beat pentax spotmatic. it had a lazy
mirror return, the leatherette was pealing, the lens was gritty.
she dialed it in so she could work the exercises, and every week
blew everyone else out of the water. there were people in there
that could not believe it, but of course the instructor loved it
because it supported his theorem: the best camera is the one you
have. the photographer makes the image, the camera simply records
it.
anyone can dig in their heels and make their case about how great a
camera is or is not, but you cannot stop pure talent and will when
a person is committed to making great images. hopefully no one
that owns this swell camera (or any other, for that matter) will
read too much into some of these posts. i think it's wonderful to
go out on pbase or photosig and see what a crafty, talented artist
can do with vision, will and technique.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

astroman · Sep 9, 2003

olyman,

Without reading through the rest of the posts in response to yours (for lack of time) I can say that you have truly presented the benefit of the developments in digital photography in a few short paragraphs.

In the past, I was always hesitant to carry a camera around for various reasons; bulkiness, film would degrade, high profile, and the list goes on.

I recently decided that one of my goals, if I was going to ever improve as a photographer, was to alway have a camera with me at all times. The A70 was the first step in reaching this goal and now I own a G3 which is a little more bulky, but I can still wear it on a hip pack.

The point is that the "point and shoot" class of cameras will always be the "stepchild" of the DSLRs, but over time, the people who own these cameras are starting to turn in some pretty impressive images. The lines will continue to be blurred and hopefully someday these "class wars" will end and photographers will be judged by the content of their portfolios and not the appearance of their gear.

G

olyman said:
Actually what I've found is that the ultra compacts such as the
S400 or casio exilim, are a perfect fit for the true photography
enthusiast. You allways have a camera with you, and you get those
everyday shots that you never would have with any other type
camera. I'm not saying replace your favorite camera, I'm saying add
one of these .

Any one that takes an average of 200 pics a day whilel on a trip
(mike) obviously see's art , and pictures all around them , all the
time. Thats the way I am , allways thinking, that would make a
great shot, or if I just cross the street I can get a great shot of
that building siloetted against that dark sky, or just like this
evening ,I slide my 400 out of my pocket and pulled my wife up
tight and one handed a couple of nice pics of us under a neon
steak house sign. pictures that wont win a photo contest, but we
like em.

A camera such as the G3 , while it's nowhere near the size of a
dslr. It still requires a consious effort to carry it along. Even
if its in a small fanny pouch or backpack, you still dont carry it
all the time. On the other hand if youve got an empty jean pocket
thats where you'll find your S400.

My point is , these type's of camera's add a complete new element
of photography ,they're fast, fun, and the moments you'll capture
are priceless.

Mike, open your eyes this camera wheather you know it or not is for
you and everyone else that loves taking pictures and lots of them.

(picking on Mike because he's been known to rip this camera,
otherwise good guy)

olyman

Civis · Sep 9, 2003

Compared to my old Nikon F with a motor drive and flash (and occasionally a film back) hooked on, the G3 is like a dollhouse toy (that was love at first sight) with respect to weight and size, and that's what I thought when I picked up the display model at the shop. Nevertheless, I fully understand why a lot of people liike tiny P&S digicams, just like I fully understood why they liked their pocketable instamatics rather that having a big hog around their neck. Some car nuts look down their noses at those that think cars are just transportation ("What's wrong with them? They should live, eat, and breathe cars as much as I do! Love the car! Love it, do you hear me?!"); it's much the same thing.

astroman said:
G

olyman said:

Actually what I've found is that the ultra compacts such as the
S400 or casio exilim, are a perfect fit for the true photography
enthusiast. You allways have a camera with you, and you get those
everyday shots that you never would have with any other type
camera. I'm not saying replace your favorite camera, I'm saying add
one of these .

Any one that takes an average of 200 pics a day whilel on a trip
(mike) obviously see's art , and pictures all around them , all the
time. Thats the way I am , allways thinking, that would make a
great shot, or if I just cross the street I can get a great shot of
that building siloetted against that dark sky, or just like this
evening ,I slide my 400 out of my pocket and pulled my wife up
tight and one handed a couple of nice pics of us under a neon
steak house sign. pictures that wont win a photo contest, but we
like em.

A camera such as the G3 , while it's nowhere near the size of a
dslr. It still requires a consious effort to carry it along. Even
if its in a small fanny pouch or backpack, you still dont carry it
all the time. On the other hand if youve got an empty jean pocket
thats where you'll find your S400.

My point is , these type's of camera's add a complete new element
of photography ,they're fast, fun, and the moments you'll capture
are priceless.

Mike, open your eyes this camera wheather you know it or not is for
you and everyone else that loves taking pictures and lots of them.

(picking on Mike because he's been known to rip this camera,
otherwise good guy)

olyman

Click to expand...

Isabel Cutler · Sep 10, 2003

In low light situations the image doesn't bleed and stretch in the lcd and viewfinder as you compose as it does with my Sony DSC F717. I also find the low light noise reduction in the Sony processing a real paint in the neck because it slows down the shot-to-shot time.
Isabel

Mofongo said:
The S400 and any other camera can be used in less then ideal
conditions to achieve creative artistic photos beyond the realm of
"simple snapshots"...

--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/?yguid=11497599
pBase supporter

Shotgun Charlie · Sep 10, 2003

Good morning, Riley:

Your comments and observations are well stated. The discussions regarding the advantages/disadvantages etc. of the Canon S400 have become unpleasant to the extent that my further participation will likely be discontinued. Personal insults and name calling (not from you) are not called for in such a forum. It is not necessary to name this individual, he is not deserving of even a mention.

In closing, this forum can be very helpful. Insults will ruin thoughtfull interplay of ideas, etc. etc.

Cheers for a GREAT day.

riley said:
Mike Hunt said:

Not everyone has the time or the interest to dedicate themselves to
the same goals as you. Cameras are desiogned and used by a wide
variety of people with widely varying ambitions and skill levels.

I've seen some closed minded people, but you take the cake.

I'm sorry if the 21st century is a little too gadget- and
techno-centric for your taste, but you're fighintg an arrogant and
unwinnable battle if you think everyone is suddenly going to forget
technology and bow down before your ancient wisdom and experience.

Shotgun Charlie said:

Thank you, Riley, for your kind comments and observations. We
agree completely, this is very refreshing. The end image is what
counts and what is behind the camera creates the image. Virtually
all cameras will do the job, it's the photographer that counts, the
camera is just the means to convert what the mind sees to an image
that can be shared.

Good luck wiith your photograghy, I have had more fun, and better
results, with my so called "snap shooter" S400 than I have had in
years.

Cheers . . .

riley said:

shotgun-
i cannot believe how long this thread has lasted. yours is a post
that finally prompted me to response. thank you for your voice of
calm and reason.
just like in my other passion (bicycling), the question is
constantly asked 'what's the best......." and the far too seldom
response is, the best camera, bike, shotgun, whatever is the one
you own and use. posting this stuff is fine, but i'd rather be out
making images.
for the record, i've owned about every 2 series camera canon has
made since the s110, and i find the s400 to be superb. yes it has
its limitations, but i have it with me, and if forced, can make
almost any shot (in some case it takes some creativity). i have
found that the biggest image difference between the s series and
the g series cameras to be in the image contrast (something we used
to pay a lot of attention to in 35mm photography). the sharpness
is well understood, the nod going slightly to the g series in the
corners.
i remember a photography class i had back in about '81. everyone
was working on the zone system with their own personal camera,
trying to calibrate the meter with a specific b/w film. there was
a lady in there with a truly beat pentax spotmatic. it had a lazy
mirror return, the leatherette was pealing, the lens was gritty.
she dialed it in so she could work the exercises, and every week
blew everyone else out of the water. there were people in there
that could not believe it, but of course the instructor loved it
because it supported his theorem: the best camera is the one you
have. the photographer makes the image, the camera simply records
it.
anyone can dig in their heels and make their case about how great a
camera is or is not, but you cannot stop pure talent and will when
a person is committed to making great images. hopefully no one
that owns this swell camera (or any other, for that matter) will
read too much into some of these posts. i think it's wonderful to
go out on pbase or photosig and see what a crafty, talented artist
can do with vision, will and technique.

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Click to expand...

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riley · Sep 10, 2003

s-charlie-

i have sincere respect for your response. i feel bad that i said anything on one level, but sometimes you just have to say what's on your mind.

the technology that makes this forum possible, let alone the technology that brings us digital imaging is amazing. if both are used and shared with care and respect, the enjoyment is magnified many times over.

this place allows us the chance to bring so many gifts, thoughts, abilities, solutions, questions and suggestions to the fore; it enhances us all if used with thoughtfulness and open minds.
you have a great day too.

Shotgun Charlie said:
Good morning, Riley:

Your comments and observations are well stated. The discussions
regarding the advantages/disadvantages etc. of the Canon S400 have
become unpleasant to the extent that my further participation will
likely be discontinued. Personal insults and name calling (not
from you) are not called for in such a forum. It is not necessary
to name this individual, he is not deserving of even a mention.

In closing, this forum can be very helpful. Insults will ruin
thoughtfull interplay of ideas, etc. etc.

Cheers for a GREAT day.

Shotgun Charlie · Sep 10, 2003

Thanks for your message, enough said.

Cheers . . . .

riley said:
Shotgun Charlie said:

Good morning, Riley:

Your comments and observations are well stated. The discussions
regarding the advantages/disadvantages etc. of the Canon S400 have
become unpleasant to the extent that my further participation will
likely be discontinued. Personal insults and name calling (not
from you) are not called for in such a forum. It is not necessary
to name this individual, he is not deserving of even a mention.

In closing, this forum can be very helpful. Insults will ruin
thoughtfull interplay of ideas, etc. etc.

Cheers for a GREAT day.

Click to expand...

bauerman · Sep 10, 2003

Please?
--
Bauerman
http://www.bauerman.Galleries.photoshare.co.nz

ginger55 · Sep 10, 2003

bauerman said:
Mike Hunt said:

You must be reading someone else's interpretation of my comments
because I have nothing against the S400. I think it's perhaps the
best pocket digital camera on the market at the moment, provided
you can afford its rather high price.

Click to expand...

Actually, Mike, I do agree with you, and with most of the others. I
just happen to own an S230 right now, which is close enough for my
point and shoot, uh, shooting. I can't afford the first camera, so I
have the second camera, first, would love to have the first, send
please.

My question is, what kind of CF cards do you all use with all these
S400s you all are using? I have been all over the internet trying to
find the answer to this question. I am going to buy a new CF card, I
am used to the sandisks, I have two 64s and a 128. I was going to
a 256 sandisk. Now I find out there are the Ultras, which write faster.
I don't know if that will help me. It might on manual with that
continuous shooting feature.

Oh, and I have read so much about Viking, pro and con, but not
much about sandisk. Except that it is slow, used to be slow, a
contradiction there.

As an aside, I carry my S230 in a second purse, in a pouch with extra
batteries and CF cards. I have also broken a lens mechanism through
carelessness. I am trying to prevent this now. So how do you all
carry this stuff in your jeans pocket and keep it safe?

Most important, what kind of CF card do you use? (And send my
more expensive primary camera, when sending others their
second camera, the S400.)

If you can't do that, can you please just tell me what kind of CF card
you use?

Thanks, ginger
Smile, or don't

bauerman said:
bauerman said:

All I've done is to try to clarify the pros and cons of each
camera, to help the prospective buyer choose the one that best fits
his needs. Smoe people here, however, insist on portraying the S400
or other cameras as a "perfect fit for all" which is clearly an
inaccurate, misguided, and misleading statement.

olyman said:

Actually what I've found is that the ultra compacts such as the
S400 or casio exilim, are a perfect fit for the true photography
enthusiast. You allways have a camera with you, and you get those
everyday shots that you never would have with any other type
camera. I'm not saying replace your favorite camera, I'm saying add
one of these .

Any one that takes an average of 200 pics a day whilel on a trip
(mike) obviously see's art , and pictures all around them , all the
time. Thats the way I am , allways thinking, that would make a
great shot, or if I just cross the street I can get a great shot of
that building siloetted against that dark sky, or just like this
evening ,I slide my 400 out of my pocket and pulled my wife up
tight and one handed a couple of nice pics of us under a neon
steak house sign. pictures that wont win a photo contest, but we
like em.

A camera such as the G3 , while it's nowhere near the size of a
dslr. It still requires a consious effort to carry it along. Even
if its in a small fanny pouch or backpack, you still dont carry it
all the time. On the other hand if youve got an empty jean pocket
thats where you'll find your S400.

My point is , these type's of camera's add a complete new element
of photography ,they're fast, fun, and the moments you'll capture
are priceless.

Mike, open your eyes this camera wheather you know it or not is for
you and everyone else that loves taking pictures and lots of them.

(picking on Mike because he's been known to rip this camera,
otherwise good guy)

olyman

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Max@Home · Sep 11, 2003

(and fill the 100 postings-list ;-)

FWIW I have followed (and added to) this thread with great interest and pleasure. I think after reading and re-reading all the comments, it's fair to conclude the following (if not the obvious):

1. Everybody agrees that the S400 is a very good camera, capable of making excellent pictures in a wide variety of conditions.

2. The S400 will do so in the hands of newcomers and seasonned (or -former- professional) photographers alike.

3. For those with the budget it's an excellent sidekick/2nd/3rd/etc camera.

4. Diagreement begins when it's called the best ONLY camera for EVERYBODY

5. It's small size allows for extreme easy transport (jeanspocket) making it more available allowing for more moments caught on CF with less effort (carrying discomfort).

6. (Due to its small size?) The S400 has limited or no manual control (Av-Tv-M-modes)

7. Disagreement begins whether it is a challenge to find workarounds for those trying to make the image anyway, or a serious limitation.

8. With any camera a photographer can make an artistic image - some cameras are more suitable to certain situations than other, and some cameras are more suitable to more situations than other, no camera is suitable to all situations.

9. Disagreement begins when the camera suddenly becomes the maker of that artistic image and has to be rated 'snapshooter' or 'creative-shooter' in stead of the photographer...

FINAL CONCLUSION

Olyman still has to write that legally binding contract to Mike, so he can forget about his S400....;-)

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

It's been a great pleasure, thanks.

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
--
Max@Home - G3 - 420ex, Castricum, Netherlands

http://www.pbase.com/max_at_home (mind you, use underscores!)

S400 perfect fit for all

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