My First True HDR Video for Youtube

Markr041 said:

.....I will be very interested to hear if indeed YouTube shows the HDR video I uploaded in HDR rather than SDR for all the test of us.

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BillSprague said:

Markr041 said:

.....I will be very interested to hear if indeed YouTube shows the HDR video I uploaded in HDR rather than SDR for all the test of us.

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I got the TV yesterday. It is the 55" Costco version of the Samsung KS8000 series. I could have saved a little money, but wanted to be sure to help you out with this HDR test.

4K is thrilling! Your video is full of great color and dynamic range. There is no question about that.

I'm using the "smart" app built into the TV for YouTube. There is a menu item buried in the TV settings for "HDR+ Mode" with choices of OFF and ON. My first viewing was at the default of OFF. Your Forest video is gorgeous. I switched to ON thinking I would somehow get a boost in dynamic range. Oddly it seemed to reduce the dynamic range. Turning it back OFF, is an improvement!

Without knowing how smart the TV is and how clever YouTube is, I think it may automatically be playing in HDR. Turning "HDR+ Mode" ON is engaging some other sort of filter that reduces the dynamic range. I've not yet found any lights or icons that will tell me what the TV is doing. In a perfect TV world, it would smartly pick the best display mode without me doing anything.

It may be that the only primary benefit of my new TV is the 4K and not the "HDR 1000" in the specifications. I'm pretty sure that my broadcast TV viewing habits won't benefit much. When I look at the list of 4K movies I can get from Amazon, I am underwhelmed. I know I'm going to enjoy my own 4K content.

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Vesku said:

BillSprague said:

Markr041 said:

.....I will be very interested to hear if indeed YouTube shows the HDR video I uploaded in HDR rather than SDR for all the test of us.

Click to expand...

I got the TV yesterday. It is the 55" Costco version of the Samsung KS8000 series. I could have saved a little money, but wanted to be sure to help you out with this HDR test.

4K is thrilling! Your video is full of great color and dynamic range. There is no question about that.

I'm using the "smart" app built into the TV for YouTube. There is a menu item buried in the TV settings for "HDR+ Mode" with choices of OFF and ON. My first viewing was at the default of OFF. Your Forest video is gorgeous. I switched to ON thinking I would somehow get a boost in dynamic range. Oddly it seemed to reduce the dynamic range. Turning it back OFF, is an improvement!

Without knowing how smart the TV is and how clever YouTube is, I think it may automatically be playing in HDR. Turning "HDR+ Mode" ON is engaging some other sort of filter that reduces the dynamic range. I've not yet found any lights or icons that will tell me what the TV is doing. In a perfect TV world, it would smartly pick the best display mode without me doing anything.

It may be that the only primary benefit of my new TV is the 4K and not the "HDR 1000" in the specifications. I'm pretty sure that my broadcast TV viewing habits won't benefit much. When I look at the list of 4K movies I can get from Amazon, I am underwhelmed. I know I'm going to enjoy my own 4K content.

Click to expand...

Surely there are some proper HDR demos in Youtube.

Can you see those in HDR and how they look?

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Markr041 said:

Vesku said:

BillSprague said:

Markr041 said:

.....I will be very interested to hear if indeed YouTube shows the HDR video I uploaded in HDR rather than SDR for all the test of us.

Click to expand...

I got the TV yesterday. It is the 55" Costco version of the Samsung KS8000 series. I could have saved a little money, but wanted to be sure to help you out with this HDR test.

4K is thrilling! Your video is full of great color and dynamic range. There is no question about that.

I'm using the "smart" app built into the TV for YouTube. There is a menu item buried in the TV settings for "HDR+ Mode" with choices of OFF and ON. My first viewing was at the default of OFF. Your Forest video is gorgeous. I switched to ON thinking I would somehow get a boost in dynamic range. Oddly it seemed to reduce the dynamic range. Turning it back OFF, is an improvement!

Without knowing how smart the TV is and how clever YouTube is, I think it may automatically be playing in HDR. Turning "HDR+ Mode" ON is engaging some other sort of filter that reduces the dynamic range. I've not yet found any lights or icons that will tell me what the TV is doing. In a perfect TV world, it would smartly pick the best display mode without me doing anything.

It may be that the only primary benefit of my new TV is the 4K and not the "HDR 1000" in the specifications. I'm pretty sure that my broadcast TV viewing habits won't benefit much. When I look at the list of 4K movies I can get from Amazon, I am underwhelmed. I know I'm going to enjoy my own 4K content.

Click to expand...

Surely there are some proper HDR demos in Youtube.

Can you see those in HDR and how they look?

Click to expand...

My HDR video is "proper", having the Youtube metadata as specified by Yotube. Google Chromecast Ultra displays them in HDR. The Samsung Youtube app has not yet been upgraded to play HDR videos, but will be.

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Vesku said:

I am not sure if the current TVs shows Youtube HDR correctly with their Youtube apps. I tried to google but the info was not clear.

I think it will be easy to see if a TV shows Youtube HDR. Just set image settings quite low for normal Youtube watching. When the HDR kicks ON the image must automatically change very bright and vibrant. With HDR the TV usually sets 100% brightness and contrast automatically with a proper HDR profile.

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BillSprague said:

Vesku said:

I am not sure if the current TVs shows Youtube HDR correctly with their Youtube apps. I tried to google but the info was not clear.

I think it will be easy to see if a TV shows Youtube HDR. Just set image settings quite low for normal Youtube watching. When the HDR kicks ON the image must automatically change very bright and vibrant. With HDR the TV usually sets 100% brightness and contrast automatically with a proper HDR profile.

Click to expand...

There is a extraordinarily long topic at "AVS Forum" on the Samsung 8000 series TV I got two days ago. There are posts from a few that have somehow downloaded new firmware available only in Korea. They say that with the new Firmware a small logo shows up in a corner of the screen when HDR has engaged.

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BillSprague said:

If your description of HDR as a switch to "bright and vibrant" is what happens, it will be useless to me. The same concept takes place in photography. Some HDR fanatics use the idea for color manipulation. They shoot a normal scene and "cook" the colors and intensity to make some sort of impressionistic art image.

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BillSprague said:

What is supposed to happen with HDR is make a wider range of light visible. It works best where the scene has light intensity beyond what the camera can capture. Normally in such a scene, the texture details are lost in the black and disappear in the whites. With good HDR, the colors don't get more "bright and vibrant". Instead, detail shows up in the shadows and highlights.

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BillSprague said:

--
Bill Sprague

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Vesku said:

BillSprague said:

Vesku said:

I am not sure if the current TVs shows Youtube HDR correctly with their Youtube apps. I tried to google but the info was not clear.

I think it will be easy to see if a TV shows Youtube HDR. Just set image settings quite low for normal Youtube watching. When the HDR kicks ON the image must automatically change very bright and vibrant. With HDR the TV usually sets 100% brightness and contrast automatically with a proper HDR profile.

Click to expand...

There is a extraordinarily long topic at "AVS Forum" on the Samsung 8000 series TV I got two days ago. There are posts from a few that have somehow downloaded new firmware available only in Korea. They say that with the new Firmware a small logo shows up in a corner of the screen when HDR has engaged.

Click to expand...

So you have not yet seen Youtube HDR.

Vesku said:

If your description of HDR as a switch to "bright and vibrant" is what happens, it will be useless to me. The same concept takes place in photography. Some HDR fanatics use the idea for color manipulation. They shoot a normal scene and "cook" the colors and intensity to make some sort of impressionistic art image.

Click to expand...

There are bright and vibrant scenes in real lie. City lights, sunsets, vibrant flowers etc.

HDR TV has 1000 nits white. Sunny day can have 100 000-1 000 000 nits. So the HDR TV is still a dim reproduction of real life.

Vesku said:

What is supposed to happen with HDR is make a wider range of light visible. It works best where the scene has light intensity beyond what the camera can capture. Normally in such a scene, the texture details are lost in the black and disappear in the whites. With good HDR, the colors don't get more "bright and vibrant". Instead, detail shows up in the shadows and highlights.

Click to expand...

SDR can show as much dynamic range as any true HDR. We can make "HDR" photos using multiple exposure which shows 20 stops dynamic range in normal dim monitor.

The new HDR standard is actually seeing much more bright and vibrant visuals using a very powerful and colorful display. We still dont need to adjust a gray cloudy day to blinding vibrant image.

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Markr041 said:

Markr041 said:

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I am truly confused. The SDR standard for video (REC709) can show only 5-6 stops, so you cannot see the 20-stops of your HDR photo on a regular monitor. Moreover, HDR video also has many more colors and shades of colors than REC709 can show. Thus HDR colors are more vibrant in a good sense even if the DR range of the HDR tv goes not achieve 1000 nits max.

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BillSprague said:

Markr041 said:

I am truly confused. The SDR standard for video (REC709) can show only 5-6 stops, so you cannot see the 20-stops of your HDR photo on a regular monitor. Moreover, HDR video also has many more colors and shades of colors than REC709 can show. Thus HDR colors are more vibrant in a good sense even if the DR range of the HDR tv goes not achieve 1000 nits max.

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I'm confused too. I practice and enjoy HDR photography. I'm pretty sure I understand enough of it to be useful at extending dynamic range without cooking colors. What confuses me it is how it works with video where you can't combine multiple exposures. And, it is true that I (probably) have not seen HDR on a TV yet except that I can display a proper HDR photo image. I could even display an example here.

Perhaps photography HDR and video HDR are not related.

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Vesku said:

Good morning Mark and Bill

There are many kinds of HDR. The terms are confusing indeed.........................

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Markr041 said:

Panasonic GH4 Vlog L 10bit 4:2:2 to Atomos Shogun Inferno. Graded in Resolve 12.5 in HDR mode, output as DNxHR 444 12bit 12-stops and injected with metadata as per YouTube instructions.

The video will be seen in SDR on SDR (REC709) viewing devices and in HDR on HDR viewing devices (REC2020):

Since improved color is a main benefit of the HDR specs, this is a video taken in a local forest where Fall colors were in evidence.

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Markr041 said:

Panasonic GH4 Vlog L 10bit 4:2:2 to Atomos Shogun Inferno. Graded in Resolve 12.5 in HDR mode, output as DNxHR 444 12bit 12-stops and injected with metadata as per YouTube instructions.

The video will be seen in SDR on SDR (REC709) viewing devices and in HDR on HDR viewing devices (REC2020):

Since improved color is a main benefit of the HDR specs, this is a video taken in a local forest where Fall colors were in evidence.

Click to expand...

a7sastro said:

Markr041 said:

Panasonic GH4 Vlog L 10bit 4:2:2 to Atomos Shogun Inferno. Graded in Resolve 12.5 in HDR mode, output as DNxHR 444 12bit 12-stops and injected with metadata as per YouTube instructions.

The video will be seen in SDR on SDR (REC709) viewing devices and in HDR on HDR viewing devices (REC2020):

Since improved color is a main benefit of the HDR specs, this is a video taken in a local forest where Fall colors were in evidence.

Click to expand...

Mark,

Since you already have your 7" Atomos monitor connected to your system to produce the HDR,

I'm curious of your findings by watching youtube with the appropriate HDR prereq's on the Atomos

to COMPARE WITH

how your source file looks in the same 1500nits and how YT renders HDR is noticeable or different?????

I missed where you tried this or described why you couldn't when you were soliciting for people to use a HDR....

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