Canon vs Sony, Autofocus Speed & Accuaracy.

Hello,

In a thread on in the Canon forum, somebody pointed out that Sony autofocus is faster than Canon but at the expense of accuracy.

Has anyone had any experience of two cameras in a similar class (e.g. G3/G5 vs DSC-V1, or A70 vs p72, or s45/50 vs p10) who can back up this statement.

I am considering purchasing a s45 (or maybe A80) based on positive reviews but am seduced by the reported autofocus speed of the DSC-V1 especially in low light.

Auto-focus speed is pretty important to me - but I'd rather have a camera that tells me it couldn't focus rather than guessing and getting it wrong.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews make any comment on focus accuracy.

Any comments/opinions would be welcome - especially from folks who have experience with both Canon and Sony cameras.

Regards,

Paul.

Well I'm not a Sony user, although there's a U10 in my household that focuses commendably fast in quite low light.

But this statement intrigues me and I'd be interested to know who/what's behind it. Personally I don't give it any credence at all as a generalisation.

Forgetting the specific, identified and documented aliments early in the F717's history (water well under the bridge now), one of Sony's really strong points has been its highly detailed and sharp imaging which we just wouldn't be seeing if AF was off.

Other than isolated (and extremely rare) buggy specimens that occur in any product, Sony isn't tossing up anything at all that should dissuade you from purchase on AF grounds.

Note: Looking at your shortlist, I'll throw in the opinion that to get the best colour out of Sony cameras, manual white balance is crucial. Canon does a much better job with auto WB. You mention the S45 on your shorlist, and from what I've read it's a better choice than the S50. Check out the CTF for detailed comment on these.

Two STF people who come to mind as also S45 users are Helen Betts (search for HelenPB) and Ann Chaikin. You might consider dropping them a line for assurance about focus accuracy, although they haven't been around for the past week (Helen -- who switched from the S45 to a V1 because of red-eye and other related flash issues -- is in international transit at the moment, and has been having e-mail problems).

Mike

paulrow said:

In a thread on in the Canon forum, somebody pointed out that Sony
autofocus is faster than Canon but at the expense of accuracy.

Click to expand...

paulrow said:

Has anyone had any experience of two cameras in a similar class
(e.g. G3/G5 vs DSC-V1, or A70 vs p72, or s45/50 vs p10) who can
back up this statement.

I am considering purchasing a s45 (or maybe A80) based on positive
reviews but am seduced by the reported autofocus speed of the
DSC-V1 especially in low light.

Auto-focus speed is pretty important to me - but I'd rather have a
camera that tells me it couldn't focus rather than guessing and
getting it wrong.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews make any comment on focus accuracy.

Any comments/opinions would be welcome - especially from folks who
have experience with both Canon and Sony cameras.

Regards,

Paul.

Click to expand...

paulrow said:

Hello,

In a thread on in the Canon forum, somebody pointed out that Sony
autofocus is faster than Canon but at the expense of accuracy.

Has anyone had any experience of two cameras in a similar class
(e.g. G3/G5 vs DSC-V1, or A70 vs p72, or s45/50 vs p10) who can
back up this statement.

I am considering purchasing a s45 (or maybe A80) based on positive
reviews but am seduced by the reported autofocus speed of the
DSC-V1 especially in low light.

Auto-focus speed is pretty important to me - but I'd rather have a
camera that tells me it couldn't focus rather than guessing and
getting it wrong.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews make any comment on focus accuracy.

Any comments/opinions would be welcome - especially from folks who
have experience with both Canon and Sony cameras.

Regards,

Paul.

Click to expand...

Well I come from a 602Z (being sold today) and now have the D10. There is a world's difference between the two autofocus systems. The Fuji (one of the fastest) prefocuses using some sort of dedicated sensor and then adjusts that using CCD contrast. If contrast isn't available the focus misses. A camera as the Sony uses the CCD contrast all of the time and thus might hunt (search forward and backwards) for the focus plane.

The D10 uses a dedicated TTL sensor that because of it's makeup "knows" if the object to be focused on is further away or nearer than the current focal plane. Then the lens is given the apropiate command to adjust. This is super quick when compared to the not so shabby Fuji.

As the Sony and the Fuji both have short focal length lenses they have a much bigger DOF and thus the contrast based measuring will have bigger tolerances as any dSLR because the camera can't tell if the object it focued on is on the near or far side of the DOF, all it knows it's within the DOF.

--
regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

Thanks Mike,

The statement came from a character with the hilarious(not) comedy name "Mike Hunt" in a recent thread about G3 focussing.
I was not at all sure about it's credibility - hence this thread.

My shortlist is currently s45 or A80 or DSC-V1 - I'll take a look at Helen & Anne's previous posts for thier views.

I already have a Casio QV-R3 but am looking to upgrade. One of my biggest gripes with this camera is out of focus shots at telephoto in lowish light and even fairly good light. I guess at wide angle most cameras have such a large DOF they usually can't miss.

Paul

Mike Fitzgerald said:

But this statement intrigues me and I'd be interested to know
who/what's behind it. Personally I don't give it any credence at
all as a generalisation.

Forgetting the specific, identified and documented aliments early
in the F717's history (water well under the bridge now), one of
Sony's really strong points has been its highly detailed and sharp
imaging which we just wouldn't be seeing if AF was off.

Other than isolated (and extremely rare) buggy specimens that occur
in any product, Sony isn't tossing up anything at all that should
dissuade you from purchase on AF grounds.

Note: Looking at your shortlist, I'll throw in the opinion that to
get the best colour out of Sony cameras, manual white balance is
crucial. Canon does a much better job with auto WB. You mention the
S45 on your shorlist, and from what I've read it's a better choice
than the S50. Check out the CTF for detailed comment on these.

Two STF people who come to mind as also S45 users are Helen Betts
(search for HelenPB) and Ann Chaikin. You might consider dropping
them a line for assurance about focus accuracy, although they
haven't been around for the past week (Helen -- who switched from
the S45 to a V1 because of red-eye and other related flash issues
-- is in international transit at the moment, and has been having
e-mail problems).

Mike

paulrow said:

In a thread on in the Canon forum, somebody pointed out that Sony
autofocus is faster than Canon but at the expense of accuracy.

Click to expand...

Mike Fitzgerald said:

Has anyone had any experience of two cameras in a similar class
(e.g. G3/G5 vs DSC-V1, or A70 vs p72, or s45/50 vs p10) who can
back up this statement.

I am considering purchasing a s45 (or maybe A80) based on positive
reviews but am seduced by the reported autofocus speed of the
DSC-V1 especially in low light.

Auto-focus speed is pretty important to me - but I'd rather have a
camera that tells me it couldn't focus rather than guessing and
getting it wrong.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews make any comment on focus accuracy.

Any comments/opinions would be welcome - especially from folks who
have experience with both Canon and Sony cameras.

Regards,

Paul.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Heheh... don't beat up on Mike. He's a good guy. But he can certainly be tenacious, which sometimes irritates folks.

While I won't go so far as to say that the Sony cameras 'give up accuracy', I found that in comparing the V1 to the G3, the V1 did tend to be out of focus more often. That's not to say that it's a problem focuser. I'm just saying that the G3 is really, really slow sometimes but rarely out of focus. And there were more times when I noticed that I didn't like the V1 focus as much. It wasn't WAY out of kilter or anything like that.

Again, I wouldn't say that speed had sacrificed accuracy. The cameras are just different, from my observation. In general, I think I'd rather wish for the V1 speed. It's miss rate wasn't that high to worry me.

--

Ulysses

paulrow said:

Thanks Mike,

The statement came from a character with the hilarious(not) comedy
name "Mike Hunt" in a recent thread about G3 focussing.
I was not at all sure about it's credibility - hence this thread.

My shortlist is currently s45 or A80 or DSC-V1 - I'll take a look
at Helen & Anne's previous posts for thier views.

I already have a Casio QV-R3 but am looking to upgrade. One of my
biggest gripes with this camera is out of focus shots at telephoto
in lowish light and even fairly good light. I guess at wide angle
most cameras have such a large DOF they usually can't miss.

Click to expand...

Are you sure the focus is off on the lowlight telephoto shots or are you experiencing camera shake.

Also, does your Casio take noticably longer to focus at telephoto than full wide? This is typical and I've always experienced on the Sonys that they will take as much time as they need. With great light and wide angle the focus will be fast and accurate. At telephoto and medium to low light, you'll find the camera will be more careful in its focus but still accurate though low light and camera shake can have a detrimental effect on auto focus.

paulrow said:

Paul

Mike Fitzgerald said:

But this statement intrigues me and I'd be interested to know
who/what's behind it. Personally I don't give it any credence at
all as a generalisation.

Forgetting the specific, identified and documented aliments early
in the F717's history (water well under the bridge now), one of
Sony's really strong points has been its highly detailed and sharp
imaging which we just wouldn't be seeing if AF was off.

Other than isolated (and extremely rare) buggy specimens that occur
in any product, Sony isn't tossing up anything at all that should
dissuade you from purchase on AF grounds.

Note: Looking at your shortlist, I'll throw in the opinion that to
get the best colour out of Sony cameras, manual white balance is
crucial. Canon does a much better job with auto WB. You mention the
S45 on your shorlist, and from what I've read it's a better choice
than the S50. Check out the CTF for detailed comment on these.

Two STF people who come to mind as also S45 users are Helen Betts
(search for HelenPB) and Ann Chaikin. You might consider dropping
them a line for assurance about focus accuracy, although they
haven't been around for the past week (Helen -- who switched from
the S45 to a V1 because of red-eye and other related flash issues
-- is in international transit at the moment, and has been having
e-mail problems).

Mike

paulrow said:

In a thread on in the Canon forum, somebody pointed out that Sony
autofocus is faster than Canon but at the expense of accuracy.

Click to expand...

paulrow said:

Has anyone had any experience of two cameras in a similar class
(e.g. G3/G5 vs DSC-V1, or A70 vs p72, or s45/50 vs p10) who can
back up this statement.

I am considering purchasing a s45 (or maybe A80) based on positive
reviews but am seduced by the reported autofocus speed of the
DSC-V1 especially in low light.

Auto-focus speed is pretty important to me - but I'd rather have a
camera that tells me it couldn't focus rather than guessing and
getting it wrong.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews make any comment on focus accuracy.

Any comments/opinions would be welcome - especially from folks who
have experience with both Canon and Sony cameras.

Regards,

Paul.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
TurboTed

(It's easier just being insane than acting insane)

Hi Ted,

I did a buinch of experiments and looked at the EXIF data and found I got wildly different values for focus distance for the out of focus shots so I don't think it's camera shake. It's a good point though - the QV-R3 is a very small camera so not that easy to hold completely steady.

Yes, it does always take much longer to focus in low light and at telephoto end. Sadly, these are the conditions under which I've taken most of my recent photos. I've heard the V1 is about as good as it gets for a compct digital camera in terms of low light focus - hence my interest.

Paul.

TurboTed said:

paulrow said:

Thanks Mike,

The statement came from a character with the hilarious(not) comedy
name "Mike Hunt" in a recent thread about G3 focussing.
I was not at all sure about it's credibility - hence this thread.

My shortlist is currently s45 or A80 or DSC-V1 - I'll take a look
at Helen & Anne's previous posts for thier views.

I already have a Casio QV-R3 but am looking to upgrade. One of my
biggest gripes with this camera is out of focus shots at telephoto
in lowish light and even fairly good light. I guess at wide angle
most cameras have such a large DOF they usually can't miss.

Click to expand...

Are you sure the focus is off on the lowlight telephoto shots or
are you experiencing camera shake.

Also, does your Casio take noticably longer to focus at telephoto
than full wide? This is typical and I've always experienced on the
Sonys that they will take as much time as they need. With great
light and wide angle the focus will be fast and accurate. At
telephoto and medium to low light, you'll find the camera will be
more careful in its focus but still accurate though low light and
camera shake can have a detrimental effect on auto focus.

TurboTed said:

Paul

Mike Fitzgerald said:

But this statement intrigues me and I'd be interested to know
who/what's behind it. Personally I don't give it any credence at
all as a generalisation.

Forgetting the specific, identified and documented aliments early
in the F717's history (water well under the bridge now), one of
Sony's really strong points has been its highly detailed and sharp
imaging which we just wouldn't be seeing if AF was off.

Other than isolated (and extremely rare) buggy specimens that occur
in any product, Sony isn't tossing up anything at all that should
dissuade you from purchase on AF grounds.

Note: Looking at your shortlist, I'll throw in the opinion that to
get the best colour out of Sony cameras, manual white balance is
crucial. Canon does a much better job with auto WB. You mention the
S45 on your shorlist, and from what I've read it's a better choice
than the S50. Check out the CTF for detailed comment on these.

Two STF people who come to mind as also S45 users are Helen Betts
(search for HelenPB) and Ann Chaikin. You might consider dropping
them a line for assurance about focus accuracy, although they
haven't been around for the past week (Helen -- who switched from
the S45 to a V1 because of red-eye and other related flash issues
-- is in international transit at the moment, and has been having
e-mail problems).

Mike

paulrow said:

In a thread on in the Canon forum, somebody pointed out that Sony
autofocus is faster than Canon but at the expense of accuracy.

Click to expand...

TurboTed said:

Has anyone had any experience of two cameras in a similar class
(e.g. G3/G5 vs DSC-V1, or A70 vs p72, or s45/50 vs p10) who can
back up this statement.

I am considering purchasing a s45 (or maybe A80) based on positive
reviews but am seduced by the reported autofocus speed of the
DSC-V1 especially in low light.

Auto-focus speed is pretty important to me - but I'd rather have a
camera that tells me it couldn't focus rather than guessing and
getting it wrong.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews make any comment on focus accuracy.

Any comments/opinions would be welcome - especially from folks who
have experience with both Canon and Sony cameras.

Regards,

Paul.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
TurboTed

(It's easier just being insane than acting insane)

Click to expand...

No, I don't knock Mike for having a strong opinion - or for being prepared to voice it!

I'll probably be using this camera to take pictures of my 1 year old who doesn't sit still for long enough for most autofocus systems to respond!
From your experience of the camera, do you think the V1 would be appropriate?

Regards,

Paul.

Ulysses said:

Heheh... don't beat up on Mike. He's a good guy. But he can
certainly be tenacious, which sometimes irritates folks.

While I won't go so far as to say that the Sony cameras 'give up
accuracy', I found that in comparing the V1 to the G3, the V1 did
tend to be out of focus more often. That's not to say that it's a
problem focuser. I'm just saying that the G3 is really, really slow
sometimes but rarely out of focus. And there were more times when I
noticed that I didn't like the V1 focus as much. It wasn't WAY
out of kilter or anything like that.

Again, I wouldn't say that speed had sacrificed accuracy. The
cameras are just different, from my observation. In general, I
think I'd rather wish for the V1 speed. It's miss rate wasn't that
high to worry me.

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

paulrow said:

The statement came from a character with the hilarious(not) comedy
name "Mike Hunt" in a recent thread ...

Click to expand...

Gee I looked at that thread and I never even noticed. Honest! : )

You're in the UK I see. Hah, well if you're also into goonery (our forum cohorts in the New World never quite got there) I wonder if you're aware of the origin of the character Capt. Hugh Jampton -- the occasional middle class twit with the speech impediment. Translation = Huge Hampton; now think about that quaintly typical old English place name Hampton Wick and your journey's just about complete ;-)

Apparently the name was coined as a private joke aimed at some BBC adminstrative type who was a bit stuffy about what he considered to be some edgy content in the show. It was used right under his nose, throughout the life of the show, without him ever catching on.

paulrow said:

I already have a Casio QV-R3 but am looking to upgrade. One of my
biggest gripes with this camera is out of focus shots at telephoto
in lowish light and even fairly good light.

Click to expand...

Nothing like covering the full spectrum. My partner has a Casio EX-Z3, and its focus problem is only at the wide end, on distant subjects. It's a fabulous little device overall, though, and getting a lot of productive use while we're waiting for replacement lens assemblies (under warranty) to land in Oz.

Mike