stevevp
Senior Member
@jogger. I shall be very interested to hear how you get on with it.
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iMac Pro release?
- Thread starter nbirkett
- Start date
joger
Veteran Member
me too
My spouse got here maxed out iMAC just a few days ago and I was very jealous on her machine knowing that I'll have to wait for a nice screen a bit further.
Currently I am using the 27" LED cinema display from 2010 still - a very nice monitor but rather limited in color gamut and brightness and of course resolution.
I think the iMAC PRO is the sweet spot of computers for photographers and videographers on a budget.
A good 5 k Display alone cost a fortune and PC Workstations are mot of the time louder and more expensive too.
Apple is doing a fantastic job lately with hardware - for the given pricing this looks very attractive to me - knowing that we talk about a Geekbench result of something like 37000 compare to my nMP with some 20500 from late 2013 - almost double!!
edit: PCGamer tried to build the same configuration and ended up some 300 bucks cheaper excluding building time and of course not as refined - see also here
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__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams
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nbirkett
Senior Member
Does your wife use Lightroom Classic on this computer? I'd be interested in her experience with speed. I've been reading some reports that the new LR, on a 5K screen, is very slow at refreshing images during change made in the develop module. A report on some first hand experience would be great.
As for the iMac Pro, I've waiting to see prices tomorrow. I am also disappointed that Apple appears to have not reversed their decision to exclude user RAM upgrades. I'm sure there are 'good reasons for this. But, it does make purchase decisions harder.
joger
Veteran Member
NO - we won't rent software - we stick to LR 6.13 and that runs excellent and snappy - as before on her maxed out late 2014 5k iMAC - the super fast SSD on the new iMAC is a big plus when opening the 50 MPixel 5DsR files - no complains from her side - for me it even feels much snappier than on my nMP late 2013 - which is very fast by comparison.
nbirkett
Senior Member
joger
Veteran Member
Never change a running system ;-)UnderstoodGlad to hear that 6.13 is working well.
hotshew
Well-known member
Age old computing conundrum -- you'll eventually outgrow what you've got and there's always something better next year.
I'm buying the base model save for possibly 2TB depending on incremental cost. 32GB is more than adequate for me today and Mac has excellent resale value (by comparison to PC). If I outgrow base model, I'll trade-up when that time comes.
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Tom_N
Forum Pro
Not necessarily. If the RAM is socketed, but inaccessible, one could pay a service center to disassemble the machine and install more. Somebody who has $5,000+ to spend on an iMac Pro should be able to afford that.
Once the machine has been out long enough for someone to do a teardown, we should find out if the RAM is socketed-but-inaccessble, or soldered.
joger
Veteran Member
You guys don't watch the available sources :-(
It is socketed - look at the Apple Web-Page!!
picture taken from the front page from Apple for the new iMAC PRO
But I would not let anybody open the machine without a good reason - the RAM is surely no good reason.
You may look at it this way:
- good equipped or better maxed out MACs have a good resale value since there are not many MACs in this configuration - just have a look at flip4new and you'll understand what I mean - base models have near to no value at all - maxed out models are so seldom that even trading platforms pay a fortune for them
- 64 or 128 GB of RAM should be plenty of space to work with - no need to change anything - I bought my nMP late 2013 with 32 GB of RAM and never opened it as well - why should I?
- these machines are used while they delivery what's needed - after 3-4 years I sell them
- I write them off at the tax office plus I sell them - at the end of the day the real cash out (tax corrected) is near to nothing - for my current nMP it is something like 1 k EUR over four years - in other words 250 EUR per year of using it - not bad but surely to my best selling MAC ever - the iMAC PRO will be no exception here
- this is a computation monster - but only if you get more cores - the base model with 8 Cores seem to have a Geekbench result of some 26000 - that's only a tiny bit faster than the 6-Core model from late 2013 with 20500 - this would be a quite stupid purchase - and not sellable at all later - the 10 Core is already 37000 points and the 14 Core might be around 45000 points and the 18 core around 53000
- the modular MAC is around the corner - will it be a competition for this machine? Probably yes and I guess a very strong one being Dual CPU and housing surely two GPUs with a different thermal concept allowing for more power - yet this is it's weakness - it will be bigger, slightly louder but surely more space consuming on one's desk.
- The modular MAC will be 8 or 10 k capable and maybe Apple introduces a 32" wide screen OELD display but all of that will be north of the 10 k EUR I am easily able to pay now - a similarly equipped modular MAC PRO with a 32" screen will be more in the range of 15 k EUR starting and it will consume more real estate on the desktop and it will be maybe 50 % faster for the bae model due to the 2nd CPU - the 2nd CPU is as worthwhile as the 2nd GPU - you'll have to find special software to drive that and for example handbrake is not really using any GPU for transcoding on a MAC
All in all the iMAC PRO seems to be the modern MAC PRO and i have no doubt that the modular MAC will be better but more pricy than the already pricy iMAC PRO and it will be more limited than many think - it will not double or triple the output per hour - by the time we get reasonable priced 8 k cameras an iMAC with 8k display will be available - and don't forget - the current 5k display has a good reason: UHD content plus room for administration bars on the side - I doubt that Apple would leave this idea and therefore a 10 k display is more the kind of monitor I'd expect - that will be even pricier
--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams
nbirkett
Senior Member
Not everyone with an interest in these machines will be able to depreciate the cost. I work in a university doing research. To purchase a computer like this, I would require an external research grant (no way to get the money from internal resources). If I get 10K to buy one, getting the same amount in four years to buy another with better specs to handle new research needs is not an easy task. The fact that it is worth less (or nothing) after four years doesn't matter. However, getting 1K to increase RAM or get a bigger SSD to handle new tasks would be much more feasible. But, this wouodn't work because of the lack of a user upgrade pathway (without 'surgery' on the internals).
joger
Veteran Member
Hi Nick,
you're completely wrong with your assumptions on upgradability.
1st and foremost we're talking about 2666MHz DDR4 ECC memory - did you ever look at the street prices?
For 1000 USD you'll get best case 4x 16 GB and not 4x 32 GB - the benefit from doubling the RAM is negligible compare to the pricing. You could have bought the RAM initially for the same price easily.
2ndly you can attach an eGPU for a very reasonable price - just get a TB3 casing and whatever GPU you'd like to use - that's the easiest upgrade path ever. It doesn't necessarily need to be internally.
My nMP from late 2013 is still faster than any current iMAC and fast enough for UHD video editing after four years of using it - I never felt the need to upgrade anything at all.
I predict that the traditional CPUs won't see that much speed bump any more in the future but the main driving force will be GPUs and you can attach even several eGPUs at the same time and for scientific applications the latency over TB3 is no problem.
I've owned a 2009 Mac PRO and installed a new GPU with the effect that the booting was blind (no image on the screen) and that the machine was more buggy than before.
MAC /= upgrade - just sell the old device and get a new one.
In case your business does not allow that try to search for creative ways to make it possible. Never forget - you won't get a cheaper PC with this specification - so you would be in the same situation - if you don't need this speed level it is simply better to buy a normal iMAC - they are very fast already!
Last but not least - the modular Mac PRO including monitor will be at least 50 % more pricy!! Compare to that the iMAC PRO will look like a bargain.
After three years of using a machine it is still state of the art - no need to change anything IMHO
My main reason for getting a new one is tax driven and not technology driven and the 2nd important topic is desk space - I love to have more room for paper, pencils and other stuff sainted of putting everything fun with computer stuff
eGPU is the new upgradability!
(when you add an eGPU to the iMAC PRO you'll probably still save desk space compare to the modular Mac PRO)
--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams
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nbirkett
Senior Member
I won't quote your whole post - many interesting points. Just some small responses.
- My $1K was meant as an illustration - I haven't done any part pricing. The point was that buying additional RAM will always be a lot cheaper than buying a new iMac Pro just to get more RAM. And, we are still waiting to find out how much Apple will charge for including more RAM at purchase.
- eGPU is a good option that I had forgotten about since I don't know a lot about it.
- However, an extra GPU isn't going to help for CPU intensive programmes. I am thinking about statistical analyses or simulation studies that require 24+ hours of continuous running to produce the first real output or simply generate a large database for future work. In that case, an extra GPU won't help. But, having larger internal drives, which take advantage of the much faster internal bus (when compared to TB-3), would be a major plus. Being able to add CPUs for parallel processing would be another big plus.
- I am not saying that a similarly equipped PC would be cheaper. But, such a PC would allow for easy upgradability. And, no, I don't want to ignite a PC/iMac debate. Please
Tom_N
Forum Pro
Apple has said that there will be a "modular" Mac Pro, for some definition of "modular" TBD. This is not that machine. This was always billed as an all-in-one.
- I am not saying that a similarly equipped PC would be cheaper. But, such a PC would allow for easy upgradability. And, no, I don't want to ignite a PC/iMac debate. Please
joger
Veteran Member
understood! Apple is normally doing an integrating job - they charge your for the next level or RAM roughly the same money as for the total amount of this level from normal market - you win nothing when you buy it later and you probably suffer from low Ram at the beginning. Not a very clever move when you NEED the RAM
Eher will be lots of scientific software in the future that the advantage of the GPU since the CPU development is stuck - look at how long Intel is already on 14 nm cluster node - there's a reason for that
as stated above - I think software will and must change to be significantly faster - Open CL is already such a move and to my understanding some mathematic software takes use of that
good to know
- I am not saying that a similarly equipped PC would be cheaper. But, such a PC would allow for easy upgradability. And, no, I don't want to ignite a PC/iMac debate. Please
I think the iMAC Pro is currently very well targeted towards photo and video and VR - maybe your use case is too far waylay
joger
Veteran Member
the base modular MAC will be at a similar price level not significantly faster - if at all and I'd not bet that you'll be able to change the CPU - thus the only thing modular is the GPU and RAM - let's wait and see - for me a computer is today like a TV I hardly ever replace something except the software in itApple has said that there will be a "modular" Mac Pro, for some definition of "modular" TBD. This is not that machine. This was always billed as an all-in-one.
- I am not saying that a similarly equipped PC would be cheaper. But, such a PC would allow for easy upgradability. And, no, I don't want to ignite a PC/iMac debate. Please
nbirkett
Senior Member
Nice pointthe base modular MAC will be at a similar price level not significantly faster - if at all and I'd not bet that you'll be able to change the CPU - thus the only thing modular is the GPU and RAM - let's wait and see - for me a computer is today like a TV I hardly ever replace something except the software in it
But, there really isn't anything much inside a TV that you could upgrade. Most major changes in TV's relate to the display technology (and interfaces) which would need a new TV to get. With a computer, there are 'discrete' components that it would make sense to upgrade (e.g. RAM, discs). So, maybe the situations aren't quite comparable,One problem I have with Apple's approach is that it seems to be driven by a desire to make the case as small (shallow) as possible. This shows up with MacBooks too. They could easily make the case a couple of inches deeper, giving better heat control and more possibilities for user upgrading. The stand for an iMac is already 4-5" deeper than the case so making the case deeper isn't going to take up more desk real estate. The constraints they impose on component layout, etc. by their case design choices limit their ability to offer options for user access to make upgrades. They may also be driven by financial issues (getting people to 'over-buy' to cover possible future needs). But, I'm not convinced that is the main driver. There may also be some technical factors but I don't see those as dominant given the options for PC upgrading.
hotshew
Well-known member
Site just updated to take orders via Apple Store app on iPhone. Desktop site still not updated yet.
johnbandry
Veteran Member
UK base price £4899 (8 core, 32GB, 1TB)
10 core + £720, 14 core + 1440, 18 core + £2160
64GB + £720, 128GB +£2160
2TB +£720, 4TB + £2520
Radeon Pro Vega 64/16GB + £540
Which makes a maxed out machine £12279
Think I'll buy two
10 core + £720, 14 core + 1440, 18 core + £2160
64GB + £720, 128GB +£2160
2TB +£720, 4TB + £2520
Radeon Pro Vega 64/16GB + £540
Which makes a maxed out machine £12279
Think I'll buy two
joger
Veteran Member
HDD, CPU, video engine . it is basically a computer today - at least my last two TVsNice pointthe base modular MAC will be at a similar price level not significantly faster - if at all and I'd not bet that you'll be able to change the CPU - thus the only thing modular is the GPU and RAM - let's wait and see - for me a computer is today like a TV I hardly ever replace something except the software in it
Well - my new OLED has HDR10 and smart functions and yet I have placed an Apple TV 4k to it since the internal computation engine was already dated when I bought it - a tiny ATV 4k is all it took to make it really smart
Try to see it this way - most people are happy with a thinner design - and in case you need more you can always have a power bank with you - my rMBP 13" mid 2017 is just stunning and I can easily work on thousands of images and can do basic UHD video editing
Well - the beauty lies in the eye of the beholder - I like it thinner and more design oriented -
joger
Veteran Member
UK base price £4899 (8 core, 32GB, 1TB)
10 core + £720, 14 core + 1440, 18 core + £2160
64GB + £720, 128GB +£2160
2TB +£720, 4TB + £2520
Radeon Pro Vega 64/16GB + £540
Which makes a maxed out machine £12279
Think I'll buy two
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