Photoshop

Scott Heck · Sep 7, 2003

I have been using Paint Shop Pro for many years but hearing and reading over and over again about Photoshop being the best I decided to give it a try.

I am very disapointed in it. There's nothing it does that Paint Shop Pro can't do in terms of editing a photo. In many cases the user interface in Paint Shop Pro is much nicer offering more information than Photoshop.

The main problem I have is that when I view any photo taken from my Canon 10d in photoshop, with it sized to fit on the screen, it causes every diagonal line in the photo to become jagged. Paint Shop Pro and the default windows viewer in XP does not do this. I asked someone who works with photoshop professionally about this problem and he was not aware of it untill I sent him a couple of pictures and pointed out the obvious problems with it (like power lines that are broken). The best answer he could give me is "just cause". Just cause is not acceptable for a program that costs $600.00.

This problem exists in Photoshop version 6 & 7, and also in Photoshop elements 2.0. As for the other versions I have not tested them but would assume they have this problem as well. I also tried different computers with different monitors all with the same result.

If Photoshop cannot give me a true representation of the photo I'm trying to work with than what good is it.

Has anyone else noticed this?

P.S. You must have a fairly large digital image (such as what the 10d produces) that Photoshop has to shrink to fit on your screen. Otherwise this problem won't arise.

SEMO · Sep 7, 2003

I use PS 7 and have never seen anything like that. I shoot with a Fuji S2Pro but I would thing there wouldn't be any difference which camera you used. Post some of you images, I would like to see exactly what you are talking about.

Cryptnotic · Sep 8, 2003

It's a display option in Photoshop to make working with huge files faster. Go to Edit-> Preferences-> General and set Interpolation to "Bicubic (Better)". Or maybe there is some new option in PS7. I don't know.

Anyway, this is all just for when Photoshop maps the pixels from the image onto the screen. You get to specify how it does the mapping. It can either do it the fast, easy way (which works even on old slow 100MHz computers) or the more complicated, better-looking way (which is recommended if you have a fast computer).

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

Cryptnotic said:
It's a display option in Photoshop to make working with huge files
faster. Go to Edit-> Preferences-> General and set Interpolation to
"Bicubic (Better)". Or maybe there is some new option in PS7. I
don't know.

Anyway, this is all just for when Photoshop maps the pixels from
the image onto the screen. You get to specify how it does the
mapping. It can either do it the fast, easy way (which works even
on old slow 100MHz computers) or the more complicated,
better-looking way (which is recommended if you have a fast
computer).

IT IS SET TO BICUBIC.

Framer · Sep 8, 2003

Doesn't do it for me either, I am using 5mp images...

Scott Heck said:
I have been using Paint Shop Pro for many years but hearing and
reading over and over again about Photoshop being the best I
decided to give it a try.

I am very disapointed in it. There's nothing it does that Paint
Shop Pro can't do in terms of editing a photo. In many cases the
user interface in Paint Shop Pro is much nicer offering more
information than Photoshop.

The main problem I have is that when I view any photo taken from my
Canon 10d in photoshop, with it sized to fit on the screen, it
causes every diagonal line in the photo to become jagged. Paint
Shop Pro and the default windows viewer in XP does not do this. I
asked someone who works with photoshop professionally about this
problem and he was not aware of it untill I sent him a couple of
pictures and pointed out the obvious problems with it (like power
lines that are broken). The best answer he could give me is "just
cause". Just cause is not acceptable for a program that costs
$600.00.

This problem exists in Photoshop version 6 & 7, and also in
Photoshop elements 2.0. As for the other versions I have not
tested them but would assume they have this problem as well. I
also tried different computers with different monitors all with the
same result.

If Photoshop cannot give me a true representation of the photo I'm
trying to work with than what good is it.

Has anyone else noticed this?

P.S. You must have a fairly large digital image (such as what the
10d produces) that Photoshop has to shrink to fit on your screen.
Otherwise this problem won't arise.

Bufferzone · Sep 8, 2003

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down. Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

SEMO said:
I use PS 7 and have never seen anything like that. I shoot with a
Fuji S2Pro but I would thing there wouldn't be any difference which
camera you used. Post some of you images, I would like to see
exactly what you are talking about.

I'm new to posting pictures so I hope this works.

The first one is a screen shot from Adobe Photoshop. The second from PS Pro. Notice how the power lines are broken up in Adobe Photoshop. It will do this under any magnification that displays the whole image on the screen.

tony gant · Sep 8, 2003

the best way to view large images is to view them 100%,50%or 25%.

Bufferzone said:
Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

tony gant said:
Bufferzone said:

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Click to expand...

That's my point. I do work at 100% but I would like to be able to pull back and see what the image looks like. Photoshop will not do this without screwing up the photo. I can trust PS Pro and for that matter the Windows viewer to scale down an image why can't I trust a $600.00 program to do the same. I'll stick with PS Pro.

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

Scott Heck said:
SEMO said:

I use PS 7 and have never seen anything like that. I shoot with a
Fuji S2Pro but I would thing there wouldn't be any difference which
camera you used. Post some of you images, I would like to see
exactly what you are talking about.

Click to expand...

Sorry, my pictures didn't post properly. If you would like to see the screen shots I can email them to you.

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

Bufferzone said:
Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

I would not agree that photoshop can do everything ps pro can nor can ps pro do everything photoshop can. For example ps pro cannot create adobe acrobat files. Photoshop however cannot adjust black/white points or do lens corrections. There is much more but to much to go into detail here.

I am assuming you have used PS Pro 8?

Ian Y&#1072;tes · Sep 8, 2003

This comes up now & again.

What you need to consider are what algorithms perform the various image manipulations. Those developed professionally by photographers or those developed from a freeware base by hobbyists?

Paint Shop Pro is a very respected program and has come quite far from its freeware beginnings.

What you are describing is anti aliasing at various magnifications.

When I'm working in Photoshop I don't want anti aliasing activated because it's a cosmetic display that doesn't truly reflect the image.

These are of course personal choices and each to his or her own.

As to $600 for the program, I was lucky to have bought a scanner which came with a full copy of PS. (That was when scanners cost hundreds of dollars :-( . I've upgraded since many times since then)

So. to sum up, first time users can choose between Elements 2.0 or Paint Shop Pro. The full version of Photoshop is usually purchased by companies involved in graphics printing and photography.

Hugh Burnham · Sep 8, 2003

The one thing that PS Pro has over Photoshop is support... I bet that the majority of people that have a copy of PS Pro 8 actually paid money for it, hence have support and a manual.

I doubt very much that the majority of people that have a copy of Photoshop got it through legal means and have the support and manual for assistance....

Go with what you can afford.. without a doubt its Paint Shop Pro 8

Scott Heck said:
Bufferzone said:

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Click to expand...

I would not agree that photoshop can do everything ps pro can nor
can ps pro do everything photoshop can. For example ps pro cannot
create adobe acrobat files. Photoshop however cannot adjust
black/white points or do lens corrections. There is much more but
to much to go into detail here.

I am assuming you have used PS Pro 8?

--
H. Burnham
ACD Systems Ltd.
http://www.acdsee.com

Framer · Sep 8, 2003

Try doing a colour seperation or using spot colours with Paint Shop Pro.

Scott Heck said:
Bufferzone said:

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Click to expand...

I would not agree that photoshop can do everything ps pro can nor
can ps pro do everything photoshop can. For example ps pro cannot
create adobe acrobat files. Photoshop however cannot adjust
black/white points or do lens corrections. There is much more but
to much to go into detail here.

I am assuming you have used PS Pro 8?

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

Color seperation is no problem in PS Pro even cmyk seperation. You however need to clarify what spot colours does in Photoshop. I'm sure PS Pro can do it but maybe by a different name.

framer said:
Scott Heck said:

Bufferzone said:

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Click to expand...

I would not agree that photoshop can do everything ps pro can nor
can ps pro do everything photoshop can. For example ps pro cannot
create adobe acrobat files. Photoshop however cannot adjust
black/white points or do lens corrections. There is much more but
to much to go into detail here.

I am assuming you have used PS Pro 8?

Click to expand...

Framer · Sep 8, 2003

One example of a type of spot colour is Pantone Uncoated.

Scott Heck said:
framer said:

Scott Heck said:

Bufferzone said:

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Click to expand...

I would not agree that photoshop can do everything ps pro can nor
can ps pro do everything photoshop can. For example ps pro cannot
create adobe acrobat files. Photoshop however cannot adjust
black/white points or do lens corrections. There is much more but
to much to go into detail here.

I am assuming you have used PS Pro 8?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Michael OHara · Sep 8, 2003

Scott Heck said:
Scott Heck said:

SEMO said:

I use PS 7 and have never seen anything like that. I shoot with a
Fuji S2Pro but I would thing there wouldn't be any difference which
camera you used. Post some of you images, I would like to see
exactly what you are talking about.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sorry, my pictures didn't post properly. If you would like to see
the screen shots I can email them to you.

Its a screen resolution issue. What resolution are you using? For best viewing it should be set to a 4:3 varriant like 960x1280.

--
Michael OHara / WetPlanet / Maui
http://www.DiveSlates.com

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

Michael OHara said:
Scott Heck said:

Scott Heck said:

SEMO said:

I use PS 7 and have never seen anything like that. I shoot with a
Fuji S2Pro but I would thing there wouldn't be any difference which
camera you used. Post some of you images, I would like to see
exactly what you are talking about.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sorry, my pictures didn't post properly. If you would like to see
the screen shots I can email them to you.

Click to expand...

Its a screen resolution issue. What resolution are you using? For
best viewing it should be set to a 4:3 varriant like 960x1280.

I'm using 1600x1000. It's on a apple cinema monitor, but it also does it on a dell laptop running 1600x1200 and the computer that my friend uses to set up photos for magazines.

Again though if it is a monitor resolution issue then why doesn't PS Pro have this problem or the Windows Viewer?

Michael OHara said:
--
Michael OHara / WetPlanet / Maui
http://www.DiveSlates.com

Scott Heck · Sep 8, 2003

I'm still not sure what your talking about but from the help screen it talks about spot color to be used with special printers that use this type of ink. I don't use one of these printers and as I assume they are very specialized probably never will.

There are thing more important to me that I can't find in photoshop such as...

lossless jpg rotation and lossless jpg saving
jpeg 2000
exif data
the ability to set the size of the thumbnails
to scan a document and set on off white point to white
fix barrel distortion
perspective correction
edge preserving smooth
texture preserving smooth
highlight/midtone/shadow correction
macro recording

the ability to customize the toolbar (i've tried everything to do this and just can't believe that this isn't an option)
print templates that can be saved
crop setting that can be saved

Perhaps photoshop can do some of these things and I just haven't found them yet but I'm getting tired of looking.

framer said:
Scott Heck said:

framer said:

Scott Heck said:

Bufferzone said:

Never noticed that problem, I allways work in 100%,

You cannot trust the way photoes look when photoshop scales down.
Scaling down is for overview, do your work at 100%.

Photoshop is the big brother of PSP, photoshop will do anything PSP
can and more. Work with it, get to know it, you'll end up loving it
and never go bck to PSP

Regards
Kim

Click to expand...

I would not agree that photoshop can do everything ps pro can nor
can ps pro do everything photoshop can. For example ps pro cannot
create adobe acrobat files. Photoshop however cannot adjust
black/white points or do lens corrections. There is much more but
to much to go into detail here.

I am assuming you have used PS Pro 8?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Michael OHara · Sep 8, 2003

Scott Heck said:
Michael OHara said:

Scott Heck said:

Scott Heck said:

SEMO said:

I use PS 7 and have never seen anything like that. I shoot with a
Fuji S2Pro but I would thing there wouldn't be any difference which
camera you used. Post some of you images, I would like to see
exactly what you are talking about.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sorry, my pictures didn't post properly. If you would like to see
the screen shots I can email them to you.

Click to expand...

Its a screen resolution issue. What resolution are you using? For
best viewing it should be set to a 4:3 varriant like 960x1280.

Click to expand...

I'm using 1600x1000. It's on a apple cinema monitor, but it also
does it on a dell laptop running 1600x1200 and the computer that my
friend uses to set up photos for magazines.

Again though if it is a monitor resolution issue then why doesn't
PS Pro have this problem or the Windows Viewer?

Scott Heck said:

--
Michael OHara / WetPlanet / Maui
http://www.DiveSlates.com

Click to expand...

--
Michael OHara / WetPlanet / Maui
http://www.DiveSlates.com

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