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A77II with Godox flash and AF issues, please help!

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amarston22 said:
tbcass said:
It sounds life a flash, not camera issue.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography.
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But I have already verified that the behavior is the same with a different flash. Unless the problem is inherent in any flash that isn't Sony's own, because that's the only thing I haven't tried. If that's the case then that is really low-down of them to restrict functionality on third party equipment. But also another user verified proper operation with the exact same setup as I have.
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I tested my a77m2 with the Sony hvl-43 series flash, Metz 58af-2 and the Nissinn i-40

flash with everything turn to lowest power settings for flashes and camera was on manual focus, manual exposure and 8fp no DRO nothing and I had the same results as you! The problem is the EVF can't keep up with the 8FPS rate when in low light I shot in a darken room and had the same effect funny thing is if you are shooting a burst then turn the room lights on while still shooting the camera will stay locked in the

the slow rate of fire but if do the opposite by first start shooting with the room lights on the camera will stay lock at the high frame rate when you turn the lights off! Weird! I also tested my A900 the same way and there was no slow down!
 
My A77 does not have that problem!
 
Also though, why does the issue go away when I use a manual flash with no data connection? Isn't the EVF going to experience the same issue?
 
I don't see anyway to get around the problem! It's some software glitch in the camera! The a700 has a similar problem where you can't shoot night sports with out the flash it's the same problem in reverse even if you are shooting under bright stadium lights in manual mode if you point the camera at a player who was against a dark background but had the light on him the camera would only shoot maybe at 1fps even if the camera set was to 1000th of sec shutter speed and 5fps I sent a video to the Sony tech guys and sent it in for repair at Sony's Larado Tx repair lab and they could not fix it! But if I put a flash on it then it was fine! So I was Sol on it!
 
linzdoctor7d said:
I don't see anyway to get around the problem! It's some software glitch in the camera! The a700 has a similar problem where you can't shoot night sports with out the flash it's the same problem in reverse even if you are shooting under bright stadium lights in manual mode if you point the camera at a player who was against a dark background but had the light on him the camera would only shoot maybe at 1fps even if the camera set was to 1000th of sec shutter speed and 5fps I sent a video to the Sony tech guys and sent it in for repair at Sony's Larado Tx repair lab and they could not fix it! But if I put a flash on it then it was fine! So I was Sol on it!
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That is sort of unfortunate. But why doesn't it behave this way when I use my old LumoPro manual flash? It only does it with a MIS shoe flash.
 
You said before that the Lomo flash was a manual only flash and all the others flashes were TTL. The Lomo does not have to sync up with the a77nm2 to check focus, pre-flash, TTL.
 
I did another test to verify this and yes, it is a glitch in the camera. Mine does exhibit this behavior when it is very dark! Very odd indeed. It does a small burst then slows down, like tat "tat tat tat.....tat.....tat tat". Just use your LumoPro flash for what you are doing. You are completely manual anyway, so there is no benefit of the TT685s other than the AF grid. Maybe you can use a video light instead. AF would speed up and you can do full speed burst.
amarston22 said:
linzdoctor7d said:
I don't see anyway to get around the problem! It's some software glitch in the camera! The a700 has a similar problem where you can't shoot night sports with out the flash it's the same problem in reverse even if you are shooting under bright stadium lights in manual mode if you point the camera at a player who was against a dark background but had the light on him the camera would only shoot maybe at 1fps even if the camera set was to 1000th of sec shutter speed and 5fps I sent a video to the Sony tech guys and sent it in for repair at Sony's Larado Tx repair lab and they could not fix it! But if I put a flash on it then it was fine! So I was Sol on it!
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That is sort of unfortunate. But why doesn't it behave this way when I use my old LumoPro manual flash? It only does it with a MIS shoe flash.
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DJohnny said:
I did another test to verify this and yes, it is a glitch in the camera. Mine does exhibit this behavior when it is very dark! Very odd indeed. It does a small burst then slows down, like tat "tat tat tat.....tat.....tat tat". Just use your LumoPro flash for what you are doing. You are completely manual anyway, so there is no benefit of the TT685s other than the AF grid. Maybe you can use a video light instead. AF would speed up and you can do full speed burst.
amarston22 said:
linzdoctor7d said:
I don't see anyway to get around the problem! It's some software glitch in the camera! The a700 has a similar problem where you can't shoot night sports with out the flash it's the same problem in reverse even if you are shooting under bright stadium lights in manual mode if you point the camera at a player who was against a dark background but had the light on him the camera would only shoot maybe at 1fps even if the camera set was to 1000th of sec shutter speed and 5fps I sent a video to the Sony tech guys and sent it in for repair at Sony's Larado Tx repair lab and they could not fix it! But if I put a flash on it then it was fine! So I was Sol on it!
Click to expand...
That is sort of unfortunate. But why doesn't it behave this way when I use my old LumoPro manual flash? It only does it with a MIS shoe flash.
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Well damn. That's disappointing. I can use the LumoPro but it isn't optimal. It has a minimum power of 1/64th, and I really need 1/128th sometimes. I guess I can stuff some kleenex inside my diffuser eh? :P

The AF assist light definitely helps too though, as even slightly blurry shots are unacceptable for this job.
 
I want to say I've tried that, but now that I try to recall, maybe I haven't? I will try it when I get home and let you know...

neoby said:
Might sound dumb but did you try the Live View Effect setting it to OFF?

I had something similar some time ago and noticed that having that off fixed it
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Is a video light not an option? That will give you the fastest AF and most consistent photos. You can also try a Yonguo 560iv. It has 1/128 power available and runs around $65, so this should be an upgrade to the LumoPro. I use these a lot at weddings.

Can you try the Godox TT685 for Canon or Nikon? This will have identical features as the Sony version sans the TTL. Perhaps the IR beam will work too? You can also try the X1 transmitter for Canon or Nikon. That has an AF beam as well, but then you have to go off camera or just mount the flash on top (I don't recommend mounting the flash on top as it will be too heavy). Buy from amazon prime since they have 2 day shipping and good return policy. If the AF grid works and the camera doesn't slow down, then problem solved.

Also, I was wondering, is there a reason you are using such low power flash and burst mode? At such low power flash, you are susceptible to motion blur if your shutter speed is low meaning, you will need about 1/125 or higher shutter to freeze the motion. Can you use more flash power or are you trying to really capture the ambient and using the flash for a little fill? Are you going direct or are you bouncing? When I do open dancing at weddings, I use about 1/32 or 1/16 power on 3+ speed lights. I usually use 1/80 - 1/125 shutter F/1.8 and ISO 400 - 1250. This gives me nice skin tones and sharp photos since there is very little ambient light. Also, there is no noise since the A7S can easily handle 2 additional stops of ISO and remain clean. My new setup will be 2x ad360 + 2x TT685s + v860ii-s (on camera). I will also bring 3x Yonguo 560iv for the second camera. I always use AF-S and single shot drive mode. I don't have 100% hit rate, but I get about 5-7 keepers per minute (majority with critical focus).
amarston22 said:
Well damn. That's disappointing. I can use the LumoPro but it isn't optimal. It has a minimum power of 1/64th, and I really need 1/128th sometimes. I guess I can stuff some kleenex inside my diffuser eh? :P

The AF assist light definitely helps too though, as even slightly blurry shots are unacceptable for this job.
Click to expand...
 
A video light is technically an option, but a clumsy one. It would also have to cover 11mm focal lengths, which I'm not aware of a compact low priced video light that does. I have a cheap Sunpak video light and it barely covers my 30mm Sigma.

So when we're "up in da club", as the kids say these days, we shoot two types of shots. One being no flash, ISO 2000-6400 depending on the lighting, f/2.8-4, 1/80 - 1/200 shutter speed. We do this when capturing crowd shots, shots of the band/DJ, or shots of the dancers. Anywhere flash would be distracting or interrupting.

The second type of shot is for taking pictures of patrons. We'll ask people dancing on the floor, groups of girls or mixed groups, bachelorette/engagement parties are a hot target if you can spot them, but we always ask and most people are more than happy to have their picture taken. For this we use low power flash with rear curtain sync, ISO 400-640, f/3.2-5, and shutter around 1/25 - 1/40. We get the ambient light from the background when the shutter opens, then the flash pops and illuminates/freezes only our subjects which are 4-6 feet in front of us. The result is nice ambient background lighting that may or may not be slightly blurry, and nice bright frozen people in front of us. The high speed continuous is just to get 3-4 shots in at once in case someone blinks.

Of course there are special situations where we might bounce flash or deviate from our "usual" shots. I have a great picture of a time when I accidentally fired a full power bounce flash out at a crowd and it looks like everyone is milling around in the mid-day sun and nobody looks cool at all. One of my favorite "mistakes". :D

DJohnny said:
Is a video light not an option? That will give you the fastest AF and most consistent photos. You can also try a Yonguo 560iv. It has 1/128 power available and runs around $65, so this should be an upgrade to the LumoPro. I use these a lot at weddings.

Can you try the Godox TT685 for Canon or Nikon? This will have identical features as the Sony version sans the TTL. Perhaps the IR beam will work too? You can also try the X1 transmitter for Canon or Nikon. That has an AF beam as well, but then you have to go off camera or just mount the flash on top (I don't recommend mounting the flash on top as it will be too heavy). Buy from amazon prime since they have 2 day shipping and good return policy. If the AF grid works and the camera doesn't slow down, then problem solved.

Also, I was wondering, is there a reason you are using such low power flash and burst mode? At such low power flash, you are susceptible to motion blur if your shutter speed is low meaning, you will need about 1/125 or higher shutter to freeze the motion. Can you use more flash power or are you trying to really capture the ambient and using the flash for a little fill? Are you going direct or are you bouncing? When I do open dancing at weddings, I use about 1/32 or 1/16 power on 3+ speed lights. I usually use 1/80 - 1/125 shutter F/1.8 and ISO 400 - 1250. This gives me nice skin tones and sharp photos since there is very little ambient light. Also, there is no noise since the A7S can easily handle 2 additional stops of ISO and remain clean. My new setup will be 2x ad360 + 2x TT685s + v860ii-s (on camera). I will also bring 3x Yonguo 560iv for the second camera. I always use AF-S and single shot drive mode. I don't have 100% hit rate, but I get about 5-7 keepers per minute (majority with critical focus).
amarston22 said:
Well damn. That's disappointing. I can use the LumoPro but it isn't optimal. It has a minimum power of 1/64th, and I really need 1/128th sometimes. I guess I can stuff some kleenex inside my diffuser eh? :P

The AF assist light definitely helps too though, as even slightly blurry shots are unacceptable for this job.
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For those interested parties, I just spoke with Sony customer support, who were oddly helpful in the matter! :P

They seem to understand the issue and have forwarded it to the engineering department and I am supposed to receive a call back from engineering within 24 hours. I will do my best to communicate the problem to them and also see if I can press them for info about a fix or firmware update. I will update here with more info if/when I have any.
 
amarston22 said:
For those interested parties, I just spoke with Sony customer support, who were oddly helpful in the matter! :P

They seem to understand the issue and have forwarded it to the engineering department and I am supposed to receive a call back from engineering within 24 hours. I will do my best to communicate the problem to them and also see if I can press them for info about a fix or firmware update. I will update here with more info if/when I have any.
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That's good to hear. Please keep up posted.
amarston22 said:
A video light is technically an option, but a clumsy one. It would also have to cover 11mm focal lengths, which I'm not aware of a compact low priced video light that does. I have a cheap Sunpak video light and it barely covers my 30mm Sigma.
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I do not use video lights, so I cannot help here :P
amarston22 said:
So when we're "up in da club", as the kids say these days, we shoot two types of shots. One being no flash, ISO 2000-6400 depending on the lighting, f/2.8-4, 1/80 - 1/200 shutter speed. We do this when capturing crowd shots, shots of the band/DJ, or shots of the dancers. Anywhere flash would be distracting or interrupting.
Click to expand...
Wow! I don't even shoot 2000 ISO with the a7s :P I wonder if people would notice the flash with all the DJ lights and such? I don't think they notice when I do it unless I flash them direct. They would basically just see a strobe and there should be plenty of that anyway from the DJ.
amarston22 said:
I have a great picture of a time when I accidentally fired a full power bounce flash out at a crowd and it looks like everyone is milling around in the mid-day sun and nobody looks cool at all. One of my favorite "mistakes".
Click to expand...
That has to look hilarious :P
 
DJohnny said:
DJohnny said:
So when we're "up in da club", as the kids say these days, we shoot two types of shots. One being no flash, ISO 2000-6400 depending on the lighting, f/2.8-4, 1/80 - 1/200 shutter speed. We do this when capturing crowd shots, shots of the band/DJ, or shots of the dancers. Anywhere flash would be distracting or interrupting.
Click to expand...
Wow! I don't even shoot 2000 ISO with the a7s :P I wonder if people would notice the flash with all the DJ lights and such? I don't think they notice when I do it unless I flash them direct. They would basically just see a strobe and there should be plenty of that anyway from the DJ.
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The main reason is we're trying to get more "candid" type shots. Most of the DJs are cool and will keep on doing their thing flash or not, but its still distracting to them, same with the bands. The crowds look better under the ambient light with all the colors and such, and the dancers we just want to be dancing, not realizing they're being photographed and start posing or stop dancing to look at the camera.

We only output relatively small images (long edge 1500px is the final form) so with a bit of noise reduction the images are always usable at high ISO. Perhaps even charmingly grainy :P
 
amarston22 said:
They seem to understand the issue and have forwarded it to the engineering department and I am supposed to receive a call back from engineering within 24 hours.
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This is their standard response to all problems. Did you hear anything?
 
JoVo89 said:
amarston22 said:
They seem to understand the issue and have forwarded it to the engineering department and I am supposed to receive a call back from engineering within 24 hours.
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This is their standard response to all problems. Did you hear anything?
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4 days later, yes! I talked to a US based tech who tried to replicate the problem but I don't think he really understood what I was telling him. He tried telling me that the flash couldn't recycle that fast, even though I explained to him that A. it keeps up in 12fps mode, B. at 1/128th power it can absolutely keep up, and C. when pointed at a well-lit scene the issue does not exist. He had a camera and Sony flash on his end and was firing it for me so I could hear it over the phone and it sounded mostly normal but I don't think he was shooting it in a dark enough scene. In any case he asked if I wanted him to escalate to the engineering headquarters in Japan and I said yes, but I doubt a minor issue being reported by one guy on a 2 and a half year old camera model will be their top priority. Sigh...
 
hi there. i was searching for answers about the godox tt685 for sony and found this thread, we have the same equipment so i wonder if you'd answer this? i have a77ii, just yesterday i received the godox from amazon, and for the life of me i cannot get it to fire wirelessly? you are using the camera to control? not a wireless transmitter? (i assumed the flash would be able to use the sony's onboard ability to fire a slave flash)

also, in full ttl mode the focal length stays at 14mm and doesn't seem to want to let me roll it out to a wider lens. this function works in all other modes so i figured it was the default for full auto?

any suggestions would be appreciated, thank you

tom
 
Tom

I have the A77ii, the Godox 685 ving, and the Godox trigger (XT-1S). I made a conscious decision not to try and use the A77ii's wireless flash controller because I had such a headache after trying to use it with a Sigma gun. Since your gun can be controlled by the XT-1S it follows that you have two kinds of wireless available: Sony/Minolta and wifi. From memory the wifi button runs in a loop like OFF/Sony/Wifi.

I think using the trigger rules out taking advantage of ADI, but the simplification is (for me) worth it. Just stick the trigger on the camera and you're good to go.

HTH

MM
 
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