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Are the new M43 cameras too heavy, or is there an optimal weight?

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David 247 said:
panther fan said:
It seems that all cameras are increasingly moving towards a common weight. Somewhere between 600 and 800 grams. I know there are lighter options from different manufacturers, but they rarely share all of the features.

Do you welcome this change because there is an optimal ergonomic weight, or should cameras still be as lightweight as possible?
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It will be different for each person. But you must look beyond the body size and weight and factor in the lenses and the entire camera system. I find my Oly EM5-II to be too small and light without a grip added. The current M43 cameras such as the G9, GH5 and similar are actually a good weight for me and I am 65 years old with bad knees. Where I get my biggest benefit is in saving weight on lenses.

You'll see a lot of comparisions between lens weights, but be careful, all too often some people will compare a basic low cost zoom or prime for Full frame against a heavy duty weather sealed Pro Grade fast lens for M43. No comparision.

I find M43 a very nice system for me now days. Just about ideal. Others say they are getting too big. I don't see it or feel it. Then again a few decades back, I spent 12 years shooting professionally with mostly Large and medium format. Most cameras today are so much better built, more capable, small, lighter and faster and deliver better Image quality then the Medium formats of my workin days.

In the end, it is relative to you personally, not to the market or to the actual photography. What are you comfortable with. Lighter is not always better. Heavier is not always steadier. Choose your camera not on specs but how it feels in your hands, how its controls and system work for YOU. That is what makes the difference when you are out shooting. If you are comfortable with the camera, no matter what anyone else says, then you can focus on good photography.

Weight is an arguing point, nothing more. If you can't handle any of the current mirroless interchangeable lens cameras, then you should be looking at a nice compact super zoom with 1" sensor maybe.

How does a camera "FIT" you and how does it meet the needs of your primary photographic shooting is all that matters. Pick it up and try it with the lenses you intend to use. Then decide for you, not for anybody else.

FYI optimal weight varies by person more then by camera. What is optimal for you? That is the only real question.

--
- David
"The only good camera is the one you have with you when opportunity provides."
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/davidwendelrobinson
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Well said. Weight and heaviness is person dependant.

A few years ago I picked up one of the Sony A7 FF mirrorless cameras in a store. Twenty seconds later I put it down for good. deciding it's not for me. I don't care how good the image quality is supposed to be. I'm not carrying this dead weight around with me.
 
ahaslett said:
There were Three Bears, but I'll vote for that.

:-D
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Let's see. Papa Full Frame camera, Mama M43 camera and baby cell phone camera.

Yep definitely 3 bears. Sometimes baby gets the best photos.
 
panther fan said:
Do you welcome this change because there is an optimal ergonomic weight, or should cameras still be as lightweight as possible?
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The high end models are getting too heavy for my liking. As a bird and wildlife photographer, I often will be carrying my camera much of the day with a long lens such as the Oly 300mm + TC or PL 100-400. The increasing weight of the bodies increases the likelihood muscle fatigue will set in--and avoiding that is one of the main reasons I favor m4/3. I've noticed the difference between the Oly EM-1 mk 1 and 2, and the newer panasonics would obviously be even worse. I'll bear the burden given the advantages of the mk2, but I think its lighter weight is a definite plus versus the newer panasonics.
 
I am not sure absolute weight comparisons for mirrorless are helpful if taken outside the context of the build design? For example a very plastic body without weather sealing or a mag alloy frame is going to be much lighter than say a pro grade body that is designed to take a few knocks and bumps as well as withstand harsh environments.

I read a lot of comments about such as the G9, GH5, EM1 mkii being heavy, and other comments about light bodies where the body flexes at the seams.

i have no issue with a bit more weight if I am buying into ruggedness, or larger frame for cooling with video.

I still find my EM1 and pro lenses lighter (12-40. / 40-150) than my canon 7D + 12-70 @ 70-200.
 
I've got my "small" kit built around my E-M1 MkI with various lenses, and my "big" kit built around my E-M1 MkII primarily with my 12-100 (etc).

Of course, I can play mix-n-match with them.

I like the smallness of the MkI, but the MkII has marginally better ergonomics, specially the shape of the grip. The cameras are so similar that it's easy to swap from one to the other.

Suits me ... :-D .
 
No.

The small selection of cameras you chose may suggest that conclusion.
 
M4/3 offers something for everyone. (Well, almost everyone). The current models range from the 269 gram GX850 up to the 725 gram GH5, weighing almost three times as much. And the same is true for the lenses. You can buy a a normal zoom 12-32mm zoom lens (70 grams) to the 12-100mm lens (561 grams). You can buy a 25mm prime lens that weights as little as 125 grams or as much as 410 grams.

You think the gear is "getting bigger" because the smaller stuff came first. And now Olympus and Panasonic are filling out their product offerings with more niche products. Like faster weather sealed lenses, longer lenses, and bodies with more features like bigger grips, bigger batteries, big heat sinks for unlimited 4K video, larger EVFs and articulating LCDs. We even have two models now wit EVFs that tilt.

Yes.... the newer models ARE larger, but only because the users wants more features and more capability. Both Olympus and Panasonic tried going ultra small (GM and Pen Mini) and neither line was successful.

You can still buy those smaller lenses. Absolutely no one is forcing you to buy the largest and heaviest uber lens. And the GX850 and EPL8 are current models.

Ask yourself.... would you be happier if you had fewer options? If everything was small then you couldn't start a thread complaining that some bodies are "too large" for you?
 
Mephistopheles* said:
Mephistopheles* said:
Do you welcome this change because there is an optimal ergonomic weight, or should cameras still be as lightweight as possible?
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The high end models are getting too heavy for my liking. As a bird and wildlife photographer, I often will be carrying my camera much of the day with a long lens .
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I have a Sony a77ii and a Pany G85. I use both, but prefer the G85 for my fairly long walking photo sessions. I generally have the 100-300mm on it.

When the G9 was announced, I was very interested, especially looking forward to the top LCD and the larger EVF. My interest has waned somewhat after checking the weights of what I have now and comparing these to the G9.

My G85 w/100-300mm weighs 2.12#

My a77ii with the 55-300mm weighs 2.44#

The G9 w/100-300mm will weigh 2.6#

My photography consists almost 100% of long walks through our local parks. The weight of a camera around my neck is important. I like the G85 w/100-300mm best. The a77ii is manageable, but not comfortable for a long walk.

So, I was disappointed to learn the weight of the G9 with the lens I would have on it. It looks like a GREAT camera, but probably not for walks. I was very surprised to learn it would weigh more than my larger sensor a77ii,.......

Jack
 
Within the MFT system, I value size over weight. None of the MFT bodies are so heavy as to pose an issue for me, even when hiking. OTOH, size directly affects ease of carry. I used to work with Canon 1-series bodies, and a Pentax 67 before that, so any of the MFT bodies are feather light to me.
 
Marty4650 said:
Ask yourself.... would you be happier if you had fewer options? If everything was small then you couldn't start a thread complaining that some bodies are "too large" for you?
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Personally I'm just impatient for the smaller bodies to be upgraded. It doesn't bother me that there are larger options, but it does bother me that the smaller ones are currently relatively dated and low end.

I like the size of my m43 gear, but often find its limitations quite frustrating and just want something better. Having to buy a camera as big and heavy as my A77 to get it would defeat the object.

Right now I'm sticking with m43 for the lenses, but for my preferences the camera bodies are pretty poor compared with Sony or Fuji.
 
JakeJY said:
baxters said:
Yeah. my GX85 was heavier and larger than expected. Weighs as much as my EM5-I, and it has a plastic case. unlike my last four bodies.

I'm slowly starting to appreciate its features although the menu stymies me. Couldn't get its flash to work last week because I had invoked some mode that precludes it.,

5c423d2393be4445831e3f772cebdf13.jpg
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The GX85 is that heavy because of the huge heat sink to allow unlimited 4K recording without overheating. Other cameras tend to be limited by overheating.
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Good to know, Jake, I bought the GX85 mainly for the EVF and record in MP4 mode, Unlimited 4K recording is a feature I've not tried.

We used to have an ascerbic forum member from Seattle, and I wish I could remember his name, but he called the GH4 a monstrosity and that dominated the threads for weeks. I happen to agree though.
 
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I never said that I was unhappy. Just checking preferences of the users. I don’t know why everyone jumped on the “defend M43 at any cost” train.

If you prefer a high weight for your cameras that’s fine. The argument that you have a range of cameras as a choice is true but not that extreme. I would argue, that IBIS and EVF are a minimum for near all M43 users. With these options you get:

GX85 -426g

GX8 -487g

G85 -505g

G9 -658g

GH5 -725g

Personally, I would say my optimum is around 600g. But my girlfriend loves the fact that her G6 weighs only 390g. Not everybody needs super advanced weather sealing. I hope the eventually following G90 will cut off some weight.
 
Marty4650 said:
M4/3 offers something for everyone. (Well, almost everyone). The current models range from the 269 gram GX850 up to the 725 gram GH5, weighing almost three times as much. And the same is true for the lenses. You can buy a a normal zoom 12-32mm zoom lens (70 grams) to the 12-100mm lens (561 grams). You can buy a 25mm prime lens that weights as little as 125 grams or as much as 410 grams.
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No. All smaller gear has been recalled. It's in the Geneva Convention.
Marty4650 said:
You think the gear is "getting bigger" because the smaller stuff came first. And now Olympus and Panasonic are filling out their product offerings with more niche products. Like faster weather sealed lenses, longer lenses, and bodies with more features like bigger grips, bigger batteries, big heat sinks for unlimited 4K video, larger EVFs and articulating LCDs. We even have two models now wit EVFs that tilt.
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Yes, yes. But it's all too big!
Marty4650 said:
Yes.... the newer models ARE larger, but only because the users wants more features and more capability. Both Olympus and Panasonic tried going ultra small (GM and Pen Mini) and neither line was successful.
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O & P intentionally crippled those cams. If they would've put the features of the GH5 or E-M1 MkII in those bodies, they would've sold well.
Marty4650 said:
You can still buy those smaller lenses. Absolutely no one is forcing you to buy the largest and heaviest uber lens. And the GX850 and EPL8 are current models.
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That gear doesn't offer the features I need, so it doesn't exist, and O & P are forcing me to buy needlessly large, overpriced gear. Try to keep up.
Marty4650 said:
Ask yourself.... would you be happier if you had fewer options? If everything was small then you couldn't start a thread complaining that some bodies are "too large" for you?
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I actually believe some would be happier with fewer options. They could still complain that the largest available gear was too large, and have the bonus complaint about a lack of more advanced options available with MFT.

That's double the opportunities to complain!
Marty4650 said:
--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
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my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/
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If someone was coming from a PL or GM body with the 17mm f1.8 or 20mm f1.7, I can understand how the more recent announcements look ginormous. However, for someone coming from the other end of DSLR land, all of the latest cameras still look smaller and lighter.

For quite a while I shot with a Canon 70D and found the body size and ergonomics to be a perfect fit. The 70D would be considered a mid-sized body. The G9 is both smaller and lighter, and the ergonomics look even better. For me, the G9 is not a big camera.

Another frame of reference for me was my time using the Canon EF 50mm f1.4 USM on a Canon EOS M2 via adapter. No DSLR user would consider this to be a big lens. How many people complain about the size and weight of the Nocticron 42.5mm f1.2? That lens is almost exactly the same size and weight of the Canon 50mm f1.4 on the adapter.

I am really happy to see m4/3 gear that meets a variety of size and performance needs.
 
The weight difference is really getting small:

Canon 80D -730g

Canon 6D II -765g

Canon 5D IV -800g

Panasonic GH5 -725g

Panasonic G9 -658g

So even going from a heavy duty full frame 5D IV to a G9 only gives you a 140g weight saving. Much less if you compare it to mid range DSLRs
 
panther fan said:
The weight difference is really getting small:

Canon 80D -730g

Canon 6D II -765g

Canon 5D IV -800g

Panasonic GH5 -725g

Panasonic G9 -658g

So even going from a heavy duty full frame 5D IV to a G9 only gives you a 140g weight saving. Much less if you compare it to mid range DSLRs
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Body weight. Lens size and weight differences are considerable.

We’re talking SYSTEMS, not a bunch of unrelated parts.
 
jeffharris said:
panther fan said:
The weight difference is really getting small:

Canon 80D -730g

Canon 6D II -765g

Canon 5D IV -800g

Panasonic GH5 -725g

Panasonic G9 -658g

So even going from a heavy duty full frame 5D IV to a G9 only gives you a 140g weight saving. Much less if you compare it to mid range DSLRs
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Body weight. Lens size and weight differences are considerable.

We’re talking SYSTEMS, not a bunch of unrelated parts.
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True but don't forget that you need to compare comparable lenses. A 40-150 2.8 is not that light compared to a pro 70-300 F5.6. And a 42.5mm 1.2 not that light compared to a 85mm F2.4 ;)
 
panther fan said:
I never said that I was unhappy. Just checking preferences of the users. I don’t know why everyone jumped on the “defend M43 at any cost” train.

If you prefer a high weight for your cameras that’s fine. The argument that you have a range of cameras as a choice is true but not that extreme. I would argue, that IBIS and EVF are a minimum for near all M43 users. With these options you get:

GX85 -426g

GX8 -487g

G85 -505g

G9 -658g

GH5 -725g

Personally, I would say my optimum is around 600g. But my girlfriend loves the fact that her G6 weighs only 390g. Not everybody needs super advanced weather sealing. I hope the eventually following G90 will cut off some weight.
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If you don't need bells & whistles, the E-M10 III is only 410g, also.
 
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