This unlocking 300D firmware nonsense, won't happen.

Peter G said:

In this post I just wanted to add some perspective why I think
everyone is getting unreal expectations of a quick update
enhancement via firmware hacks. Perhaps I was a bit more negative
than necessary to balance the mania surrounding this idea.

But I have a bit of experience in the area (firmware not hacking)
so I thought I would share an opinion that wasn't entirely based on
hearsay.

I am not saying it can't happen, just that in my considered opinion
the odds are very low. I wanted to give people not aware of what is
involved a feel for some of the difficulties involved.

I dont really think it was usefull for the few that decided to
insult my skills and education because I suggested this wouldn't be
done and posted (IMO) the most realistic view of the obstacles thus
far. I would like nothing better for them or the "hacker elite"
that they know to demonstrate how mistaken my opinon has been.

IMO these features will be accessed when Canon wants them accessed
and no sooner.

This is my last post in the thread. My email is open if you want me
to comment on something.

Peter

Click to expand...

Peter G said:

There are all kinds of crazy assumptions here like they took the
10D firmware and locked it in a few places and it will be simple to
unlock, or simply install the 10D firmware and away you go. This is
totally wrong.

I have been making my living as a programmer since 1992 and I have
programmed a lot of firmware in my time. This is not simply the 10D
firmware with a few blocks. While there was code re-use, they did
not cut down a 10D, they emulated the Film Rebel. This was a large
scale effort in interface design, new coding (but with reuse) and a
large verification effort.

There is no upgrade patch waiting in the wings. This camera is what
Canon intends it to be. Under no circumstance will 10D firmware
work.

No mysterious hacker is going to emerge that "enables" the 10D
features. PC hackers work from known CPUs with common compilers in
a known address space. Childs play compared to reverse engineering
someones proprietary system.

At one company I worked at many years ago we were asked to figure
out what our competition was doing. We dissassembled their product.
Drew out circuit diagrams from the circuit board to figure out what
the embedded processor was up to. This was a simple two sided
circuit board and it was a huge, aggravating error prone effort. It
only gave us an idea what they were doing.

We didn't go as far as trying to dissassemble their code. That
would have been a second nightmare. Did you ever look at raw
assembly code without comments or even meaningful branch names??
That is what you get dissassembling someone elses EXE...

ldab #10 ( Can you guess the meaning of this register??)
cmpa #$12
bltskip
suba #$2

And this would be for a well known published instruction set, with
an available dis-assembler...

Without that you get:

FF e4 56 78 23 09 a5....

Good luck...

Ask yourself when the last time you saw hacked camera firmware
was?? Expect the Rebel fuction set to stay the same until a new
model...

Peter

Click to expand...

Sergart said:

I belive you right... I'm not a programmer, so I belive you : hack
it - is too hard , almost impossible ... but tell me: Canon
company can do that? I mean - is that posiible forTHEM to change
it? look -
here is a choice: What if Canon will produce a SPECIAL firmware
upgrade on CD ... which will UNLOCK disabled Custom function and
return DEFAULT parameters to ZERO…?
(Minolta did it with upgrade for Dimage-7.. I pay extra $70 for it) ..
It's like we have a chance to buy "GeForce" or "GeForce-Ultra"...
Main point here: I'd like to have "advanced function camera with
THAT exact size D Rebel have! And I'm sure - some of keen amateur
photographers will want it also! I will PAY for it
Let us call it ... "Digital Rebel Ultra" upgrade kit.
I'd like to know - how much would you, readers, pay for that??
We will have a choice, Canon will have EXTRA money, and ..that
upgrade don't even a honeypot for PROFESSIONALS who is ready to
10D, and 1Ds as it's not FIX the pentamirror, mirror's shake,
plastic body, or buffer size, or any other construction parts of
the Rebel .. so …. Everyone will happy!!
Even someone ready told me - that this is bad idea... peoples will
start to think that Canon did all that trick for money .. but I
have my argument :
I want smal camera ... so do not tell me - get 10D, OK? .. just
tell me please - is that POSSIBLE technically for Canon, not for
hackers .. ??
another story if Canon WILL do it ..
--
http://www.sergesmart.com
I never learn English... but I'm a speechifier so much that I can't
stop myself even in unfamiliar language...

Click to expand...

Peter G said:

There are all kinds of crazy assumptions here like they took the
10D firmware and locked it in a few places and it will be simple to
unlock, or simply install the 10D firmware and away you go. This is
totally wrong.

I have been making my living as a programmer since 1992 and I have
programmed a lot of firmware in my time. This is not simply the 10D
firmware with a few blocks. While there was code re-use, they did
not cut down a 10D, they emulated the Film Rebel. This was a large
scale effort in interface design, new coding (but with reuse) and a
large verification effort.

There is no upgrade patch waiting in the wings. This camera is what
Canon intends it to be. Under no circumstance will 10D firmware
work.

No mysterious hacker is going to emerge that "enables" the 10D
features. PC hackers work from known CPUs with common compilers in
a known address space. Childs play compared to reverse engineering
someones proprietary system.

At one company I worked at many years ago we were asked to figure
out what our competition was doing. We dissassembled their product.
Drew out circuit diagrams from the circuit board to figure out what
the embedded processor was up to. This was a simple two sided
circuit board and it was a huge, aggravating error prone effort. It
only gave us an idea what they were doing.

We didn't go as far as trying to dissassemble their code. That
would have been a second nightmare. Did you ever look at raw
assembly code without comments or even meaningful branch names??
That is what you get dissassembling someone elses EXE...

ldab #10 ( Can you guess the meaning of this register??)
cmpa #$12
bltskip
suba #$2

And this would be for a well known published instruction set, with
an available dis-assembler...

Without that you get:

FF e4 56 78 23 09 a5....

Good luck...

Ask yourself when the last time you saw hacked camera firmware
was?? Expect the Rebel fuction set to stay the same until a new
model...

Peter

Click to expand...

ChrisLam said:

Here is an example of truning a digital camera into a gameboy like
machine, at first I can't belive it, but it's real.

http://digita.mame.net/

Peter G said:

There are all kinds of crazy assumptions here like they took the
10D firmware and locked it in a few places and it will be simple to
unlock, or simply install the 10D firmware and away you go. This is
totally wrong.

I have been making my living as a programmer since 1992 and I have
programmed a lot of firmware in my time. This is not simply the 10D
firmware with a few blocks. While there was code re-use, they did
not cut down a 10D, they emulated the Film Rebel. This was a large
scale effort in interface design, new coding (but with reuse) and a
large verification effort.

There is no upgrade patch waiting in the wings. This camera is what
Canon intends it to be. Under no circumstance will 10D firmware
work.

No mysterious hacker is going to emerge that "enables" the 10D
features. PC hackers work from known CPUs with common compilers in
a known address space. Childs play compared to reverse engineering
someones proprietary system.

At one company I worked at many years ago we were asked to figure
out what our competition was doing. We dissassembled their product.
Drew out circuit diagrams from the circuit board to figure out what
the embedded processor was up to. This was a simple two sided
circuit board and it was a huge, aggravating error prone effort. It
only gave us an idea what they were doing.

We didn't go as far as trying to dissassemble their code. That
would have been a second nightmare. Did you ever look at raw
assembly code without comments or even meaningful branch names??
That is what you get dissassembling someone elses EXE...

ldab #10 ( Can you guess the meaning of this register??)
cmpa #$12
bltskip
suba #$2

And this would be for a well known published instruction set, with
an available dis-assembler...

Without that you get:

FF e4 56 78 23 09 a5....

Good luck...

Ask yourself when the last time you saw hacked camera firmware
was?? Expect the Rebel fuction set to stay the same until a new
model...

Peter

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Member said:

ChrisLam said:

Seems not possible but when talking about hacking, it's not only
about reverse engineering, it may include insider leakage of
technical information and others, so it's somthing we may say WOW
when it happens.

Here is an example of truning a digital camera into a gameboy like
machine, at first I can't belive it, but it's real.

http://digita.mame.net/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

eric said:

the guy just took pictures of game screens. there was some fool
that said he turned his digicam into a tv. he just took pictures of
his tv and then took pictures of his camera as "proof". silly.

e

Click to expand...

Crimsonrain22 said:

Ok is it just me or from the way the market is moving by the time a
hack would be available the 10d price will be less then the rebel
costs now. Buy the camera with the features you want and be happy
that it dosent cost 25,000 like it did not to long ago.

Click to expand...

Sudeep said:

Hacking Firmware for their Digic processor will be next to
impossible without insider information.

But if these are just povisioned lock in the Paramaters (Persistent
Storage values of the Device.) I can see some hard work beakin it...

sudeep

Peter G said:

There are all kinds of crazy assumptions here like they took the
10D firmware and locked it in a few places and it will be simple to
unlock, or simply install the 10D firmware and away you go. This is
totally wrong.

I have been making my living as a programmer since 1992 and I have
programmed a lot of firmware in my time. This is not simply the 10D
firmware with a few blocks. While there was code re-use, they did
not cut down a 10D, they emulated the Film Rebel. This was a large
scale effort in interface design, new coding (but with reuse) and a
large verification effort.

There is no upgrade patch waiting in the wings. This camera is what
Canon intends it to be. Under no circumstance will 10D firmware
work.

No mysterious hacker is going to emerge that "enables" the 10D
features. PC hackers work from known CPUs with common compilers in
a known address space. Childs play compared to reverse engineering
someones proprietary system.

At one company I worked at many years ago we were asked to figure
out what our competition was doing. We dissassembled their product.
Drew out circuit diagrams from the circuit board to figure out what
the embedded processor was up to. This was a simple two sided
circuit board and it was a huge, aggravating error prone effort. It
only gave us an idea what they were doing.

We didn't go as far as trying to dissassemble their code. That
would have been a second nightmare. Did you ever look at raw
assembly code without comments or even meaningful branch names??
That is what you get dissassembling someone elses EXE...

ldab #10 ( Can you guess the meaning of this register??)
cmpa #$12
bltskip
suba #$2

And this would be for a well known published instruction set, with
an available dis-assembler...

Without that you get:

FF e4 56 78 23 09 a5....

Good luck...

Ask yourself when the last time you saw hacked camera firmware
was?? Expect the Rebel fuction set to stay the same until a new
model...

Peter

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter G said:

There are all kinds of crazy assumptions here like they took the
10D firmware and locked it in a few places and it will be simple to
unlock, or simply install the 10D firmware and away you go. This is
totally wrong.

I have been making my living as a programmer since 1992 and I have
programmed a lot of firmware in my time. This is not simply the 10D
firmware with a few blocks. While there was code re-use, they did
not cut down a 10D, they emulated the Film Rebel. This was a large
scale effort in interface design, new coding (but with reuse) and a
large verification effort.

There is no upgrade patch waiting in the wings. This camera is what
Canon intends it to be. Under no circumstance will 10D firmware
work.

No mysterious hacker is going to emerge that "enables" the 10D
features. PC hackers work from known CPUs with common compilers in
a known address space. Childs play compared to reverse engineering
someones proprietary system.

At one company I worked at many years ago we were asked to figure
out what our competition was doing. We dissassembled their product.
Drew out circuit diagrams from the circuit board to figure out what
the embedded processor was up to. This was a simple two sided
circuit board and it was a huge, aggravating error prone effort. It
only gave us an idea what they were doing.

We didn't go as far as trying to dissassemble their code. That
would have been a second nightmare. Did you ever look at raw
assembly code without comments or even meaningful branch names??
That is what you get dissassembling someone elses EXE...

ldab #10 ( Can you guess the meaning of this register??)
cmpa #$12
bltskip
suba #$2

And this would be for a well known published instruction set, with
an available dis-assembler...

Without that you get:

FF e4 56 78 23 09 a5....

Good luck...

Ask yourself when the last time you saw hacked camera firmware
was?? Expect the Rebel fuction set to stay the same until a new
model...

Peter

Click to expand...

Leo F Godoy said:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/videopages/sonyd8secodes.htm

People said "why would SOny put zebra codes, manual WB on 300 bucks
camcorders? That would kill the sales of 700 bucks models". Well,
what about this, we MADE IT, didn't we?

I am not telling you the Canon will be hackable. But telling it
isn't possible BEFORE getting one is a risky. This is what I
promise. I WILL work on this firmware. Maybe I will get the
functions, maybe I won't.

And just another thing. Stop saying that people who need those
funcions shoud get a 10D. You people never heard of BUDGET?

Cheers,
Leo

Peter G said:

There are all kinds of crazy assumptions here like they took the
10D firmware and locked it in a few places and it will be simple to
unlock, or simply install the 10D firmware and away you go. This is
totally wrong.

I have been making my living as a programmer since 1992 and I have
programmed a lot of firmware in my time. This is not simply the 10D
firmware with a few blocks. While there was code re-use, they did
not cut down a 10D, they emulated the Film Rebel. This was a large
scale effort in interface design, new coding (but with reuse) and a
large verification effort.

There is no upgrade patch waiting in the wings. This camera is what
Canon intends it to be. Under no circumstance will 10D firmware
work.

No mysterious hacker is going to emerge that "enables" the 10D
features. PC hackers work from known CPUs with common compilers in
a known address space. Childs play compared to reverse engineering
someones proprietary system.

At one company I worked at many years ago we were asked to figure
out what our competition was doing. We dissassembled their product.
Drew out circuit diagrams from the circuit board to figure out what
the embedded processor was up to. This was a simple two sided
circuit board and it was a huge, aggravating error prone effort. It
only gave us an idea what they were doing.

We didn't go as far as trying to dissassemble their code. That
would have been a second nightmare. Did you ever look at raw
assembly code without comments or even meaningful branch names??
That is what you get dissassembling someone elses EXE...

ldab #10 ( Can you guess the meaning of this register??)
cmpa #$12
bltskip
suba #$2

And this would be for a well known published instruction set, with
an available dis-assembler...

Without that you get:

FF e4 56 78 23 09 a5....

Good luck...

Ask yourself when the last time you saw hacked camera firmware
was?? Expect the Rebel fuction set to stay the same until a new
model...

Peter

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Andy Moreton said:

Whether the 300D firmware can be unlocked depends on how it was
written. As the 300D uses the DIGIC processor and the 10D does not
it is unlikely the 10D firmware will work.

Click to expand...

• The JPEG format image will not be saved.

dchao said:

When you shoot in RAW mode, the playback only shows a very low-res
image of the RAW file, and making focus check impossible. However,
if you set the G3 to JPEG mode, but change to RAW immdediately
after the shot is taken, the camera records both formats, and
subsequently, you can preview a high-res image in playback mode.

This feature is not documented by Canon anywhere.

I think as the 300D users base grows, more backdoors tips and
tricks or hacks will be discovered. There will be solutions and
workrounds for a lot of the limitations we are talking about today.
Canon engineers are only humans too and humans make mistakes.

Peter G said:

In this post I just wanted to add some perspective why I think
everyone is getting unreal expectations of a quick update
enhancement via firmware hacks. Perhaps I was a bit more negative
than necessary to balance the mania surrounding this idea.

But I have a bit of experience in the area (firmware not hacking)
so I thought I would share an opinion that wasn't entirely based on
hearsay.

I am not saying it can't happen, just that in my considered opinion
the odds are very low. I wanted to give people not aware of what is
involved a feel for some of the difficulties involved.

I dont really think it was usefull for the few that decided to
insult my skills and education because I suggested this wouldn't be
done and posted (IMO) the most realistic view of the obstacles thus
far. I would like nothing better for them or the "hacker elite"
that they know to demonstrate how mistaken my opinon has been.

IMO these features will be accessed when Canon wants them accessed
and no sooner.

This is my last post in the thread. My email is open if you want me
to comment on something.

Peter

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

• TG -

TGrimm said:

Actually, converting JPEG to RAW is discussed quite well on page 53 of
the G3 users manual.

e.g.
Changing the Recording Format Right after Shooting

By following the below instructions, you can save images shot in the
JPEG format in the RAW format (p. 58) right after shooting if the
camera
is set to , , , , or . You can easily process images saved in the RAW
format using a computer to edit the resolution, photo effect and white
balance without any loss of quality.

• The JPEG format image will not be saved.

(...)

Click to expand...

Mark Marshall said:

Andy Moreton said:

Whether the 300D firmware can be unlocked depends on how it was
written. As the 300D uses the DIGIC processor and the 10D does not
it is unlikely the 10D firmware will work.

Click to expand...

Where did you get that impression? From the specs page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page3.asp
"DiGiC processor: Canon made a big noise about their development of
the DiGiC processor which first made its way into the PowerShot G3
and S45 at Photokina last year. The same processor is now utilized
in the EOS-10D and promises lower power consumption, faster
processing and better image quality." - m²

Click to expand...