Ssd vs hdd

traderjay said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

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SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

traderjay said:

If

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Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time. Most processing is done by CPU. More memory helps to prevent paging to SSD/HDD. Sure, if you computer has very little memory software will page SSD to make computer seems faster but if you have enough memory SSD will be of no use.

--
If I don't respond to your post after you responded to my with NEGATIVE remarks that means you are on my Ignore list.
Photography Director for Whedonopolis.com

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There are two types of speed in a system:

1) Benchmark speed

2) Real life application speed

An SSD might not affect benchmark speed, for example the time it takes to render a video or process a filter in photoshop, but it absolutely plays an important role at speeding up real life application speed. Saving and processing huge files means hundreds or even gigabytes of disk writes and you will be left twiddling your thumb with a HDD. Unless you use only one application at one time with one fixed function, a traditional HDD will be a huge bottleneck when it comes to any form of multitasking.

I can tell you with conviction that my 44 core workstation will be unuseable if I swap out the nVME SSD with a HDD and open 20+ application at once.

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SushiEater said:

traderjay said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Member said:

If

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time. Most processing is done by CPU. More memory helps to prevent paging to SSD/HDD. Sure, if you computer has very little memory software will page SSD to make computer seems faster but if you have enough memory SSD will be of no use.

--
If I don't respond to your post after you responded to my with NEGATIVE remarks that means you are on my Ignore list.
Photography Director for Whedonopolis.com

Click to expand...

There are two types of speed in a system:

1) Benchmark speed

2) Real life application speed

An SSD might not affect benchmark speed, for example the time it takes to render a video or process a filter in photoshop, but it absolutely plays an important role at speeding up real life application speed. Saving and processing huge files means hundreds or even gigabytes of disk writes and you will be left twiddling your thumb with a HDD. Unless you use only one application at one time with one fixed function, a traditional HDD will be a huge bottleneck when it comes to any form of multitasking.

I can tell you with conviction that my 44 core workstation will be unuseable if I swap out the nVME SSD with a HDD and open 20+ application at once.

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You are joking right? You compare a laptop with 44 core workstation? And BTW, if you are saving large file in Photoshop you will not get much of the gain with SSD. It does not just copy data from the memory to SSD. It takes a little bit of data, process it and only then store it on SSD while processing simultaneously another block of data. Just look at the bottom of the screen and it shows that id goes in spurts. So the same thing happens with HD. Since processing and recording is done simultaneously the recording media does not matter. And it needs to be a very large file. A small JPG will just record as fast on SSD as on HD so you will not notice any difference. I am sure SSD can make a difference in 44 core workstation but on a laptop or a desktop there is not much difference.

And frankly I am tired to argue about this. I have my own convictions and experiences.

--
If I don't respond to your post after you responded to my with NEGATIVE remarks that means you are on my Ignore list.
Photography Director for Whedonopolis.com

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traderjay said:

SushiEater said:

traderjay said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

traderjay said:

If

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time. Most processing is done by CPU. More memory helps to prevent paging to SSD/HDD. Sure, if you computer has very little memory software will page SSD to make computer seems faster but if you have enough memory SSD will be of no use.

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SushiEater said:

traderjay said:

SushiEater said:

traderjay said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Member said:

If

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time. Most processing is done by CPU. More memory helps to prevent paging to SSD/HDD. Sure, if you computer has very little memory software will page SSD to make computer seems faster but if you have enough memory SSD will be of no use.

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SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time.

Click to expand...

Sean Nelson said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time.

Click to expand...

Well, that's kind of the point. Because the SSD is so fast, it's only used for a short period of time... ;-)

The SSD will be far faster for all disk accesses, and that's doubly important in a laptop where the disks tend to be of the slower, less power-consumptive variety (and an SSD is a great way to save power, too!).

What SushiEater is getting at, though, is that Windows is pretty good at caching information in memory - so you only get those speed improvements the first time any particular piece of program or data is accessed. In most cases, what this means is the system boots much faster and programs load more quickly. Once you're into a program and the program has loaded it's data, the actual process of working with it won't really be improved by an SSD.

So part of the equation on whether an SSD is worthwhile or not depends on how often you boot the system and how often you start up new programs. It also depends on the type of program you use - for example if you're using a video editing program that is very disk intensive then the SSD will be a big improvement even after the program has been loaded. But an Internet browser? Not so much.

However in my experience most people find that even just the improved bootup and program load times make an SSD well worth it. Let's face it, apart from Internet communications the only time we're really waiting for any computer these days is when it has to wait for disk activity. An SSD can pretty much eliminate that kind of wait time so that it always seems to respond very quickly. Even if you're not really waiting for it all that often, eliminating those few waits can make it feel like it's much faster overall.

But of course, your mileage may vary...

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SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster. If you are planning to sleep your laptop then not in use it would not make any difference if you have HD or SSD because waking up from the sleep is a lot faster than booting. Also, software load faster after initial run. That said if you are going to shut down your laptop all the time and especially carrying your laptop in the bag get SSD. A lot safer. Regardless what you decide get max amount of memory because it helps with the speed. Your software will not have to page to the HD/SSD if there is enough memory.

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SushiEater said:

Sean Nelson said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time.

Click to expand...

Well, that's kind of the point. Because the SSD is so fast, it's only used for a short period of time... ;-)

The SSD will be far faster for all disk accesses, and that's doubly important in a laptop where the disks tend to be of the slower, less power-consumptive variety (and an SSD is a great way to save power, too!).

What SushiEater is getting at, though, is that Windows is pretty good at caching information in memory - so you only get those speed improvements the first time any particular piece of program or data is accessed. In most cases, what this means is the system boots much faster and programs load more quickly. Once you're into a program and the program has loaded it's data, the actual process of working with it won't really be improved by an SSD.

So part of the equation on whether an SSD is worthwhile or not depends on how often you boot the system and how often you start up new programs. It also depends on the type of program you use - for example if you're using a video editing program that is very disk intensive then the SSD will be a big improvement even after the program has been loaded. But an Internet browser? Not so much.

However in my experience most people find that even just the improved bootup and program load times make an SSD well worth it. Let's face it, apart from Internet communications the only time we're really waiting for any computer these days is when it has to wait for disk activity. An SSD can pretty much eliminate that kind of wait time so that it always seems to respond very quickly. Even if you're not really waiting for it all that often, eliminating those few waits can make it feel like it's much faster overall.

But of course, your mileage may vary...

Click to expand...

Lets say you have two identical computers but one with SSD and one with HD.

Load the program from SSD for the first time. Time it. Now load it from HD. Time it. Of course it would be faster from SSD.

Unload both. Now load the m again on both computers. The time will be mostly identical on both computers and much faster than from the first time from SSD.

Now put you computer to sleep. Wake it and it will wake up in just a few seconds. So it is much faster than booting from SSD. Now start the same programs and they load in about the same time as before you put your computer to sleep.

So the lesson learned here is to never shut down your computer. Just put it to sleep and it will be fast regardless if you use SSD or HD. I personally never shut down any of my computers. Always put them to sleep. Even my desktop only consumes few watts of power during sleep so no big deal.

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bent christian said:

SushiEater said:

Sean Nelson said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time.

Click to expand...

Well, that's kind of the point. Because the SSD is so fast, it's only used for a short period of time... ;-)

The SSD will be far faster for all disk accesses, and that's doubly important in a laptop where the disks tend to be of the slower, less power-consumptive variety (and an SSD is a great way to save power, too!).

What SushiEater is getting at, though, is that Windows is pretty good at caching information in memory - so you only get those speed improvements the first time any particular piece of program or data is accessed. In most cases, what this means is the system boots much faster and programs load more quickly. Once you're into a program and the program has loaded it's data, the actual process of working with it won't really be improved by an SSD.

So part of the equation on whether an SSD is worthwhile or not depends on how often you boot the system and how often you start up new programs. It also depends on the type of program you use - for example if you're using a video editing program that is very disk intensive then the SSD will be a big improvement even after the program has been loaded. But an Internet browser? Not so much.

However in my experience most people find that even just the improved bootup and program load times make an SSD well worth it. Let's face it, apart from Internet communications the only time we're really waiting for any computer these days is when it has to wait for disk activity. An SSD can pretty much eliminate that kind of wait time so that it always seems to respond very quickly. Even if you're not really waiting for it all that often, eliminating those few waits can make it feel like it's much faster overall.

But of course, your mileage may vary...

Click to expand...

Lets say you have two identical computers but one with SSD and one with HD.

Load the program from SSD for the first time. Time it. Now load it from HD. Time it. Of course it would be faster from SSD.

Unload both. Now load the m again on both computers. The time will be mostly identical on both computers and much faster than from the first time from SSD.

Now put you computer to sleep. Wake it and it will wake up in just a few seconds. So it is much faster than booting from SSD. Now start the same programs and they load in about the same time as before you put your computer to sleep.

So the lesson learned here is to never shut down your computer. Just put it to sleep and it will be fast regardless if you use SSD or HD. I personally never shut down any of my computers. Always put them to sleep. Even my desktop only consumes few watts of power during sleep so no big deal.

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So, what you are saying is that a system with a HDD can, maybe, be as fast as an identical system with an SSD, as long as it is never shut dow, has enough memory to hold all data in RAM, and never, ever swaps out data to disk. Those are enough caveats to make one's head spin. You are missing the fact that the HDD is mostly taken out of the equation here. Your original statement is disproven by your own words.

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bent christian said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster. If you are planning to sleep your laptop then not in use it would not make any difference if you have HD or SSD because waking up from the sleep is a lot faster than booting. Also, software load faster after initial run. That said if you are going to shut down your laptop all the time and especially carrying your laptop in the bag get SSD. A lot safer. Regardless what you decide get max amount of memory because it helps with the speed. Your software will not have to page to the HD/SSD if there is enough memory.

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Strangely, you go on in your later posts ti talk about how SSDs are faster. You are ether confused or have no idea what you are talking about.

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bent christian said:

SSDs are objectively faster than HDD in every way. This can be proven in benchmarking and in real-world user experience. SSDs are of particular help when RAM runs out and the system begins swapping to disk.

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SushiEater said:

bent christian said:

SushiEater said:

Sean Nelson said:

SushiEater said:

RedFox88 said:

SushiEater said:

No, SSD does not make laptop run faster.

Click to expand...

SSD absolutely does make a computer run faster!

Click to expand...

Baloney. It does not add any speed. SSD use for very short period of time.

Click to expand...

Well, that's kind of the point. Because the SSD is so fast, it's only used for a short period of time... ;-)

The SSD will be far faster for all disk accesses, and that's doubly important in a laptop where the disks tend to be of the slower, less power-consumptive variety (and an SSD is a great way to save power, too!).

What SushiEater is getting at, though, is that Windows is pretty good at caching information in memory - so you only get those speed improvements the first time any particular piece of program or data is accessed. In most cases, what this means is the system boots much faster and programs load more quickly. Once you're into a program and the program has loaded it's data, the actual process of working with it won't really be improved by an SSD.

So part of the equation on whether an SSD is worthwhile or not depends on how often you boot the system and how often you start up new programs. It also depends on the type of program you use - for example if you're using a video editing program that is very disk intensive then the SSD will be a big improvement even after the program has been loaded. But an Internet browser? Not so much.

However in my experience most people find that even just the improved bootup and program load times make an SSD well worth it. Let's face it, apart from Internet communications the only time we're really waiting for any computer these days is when it has to wait for disk activity. An SSD can pretty much eliminate that kind of wait time so that it always seems to respond very quickly. Even if you're not really waiting for it all that often, eliminating those few waits can make it feel like it's much faster overall.

But of course, your mileage may vary...

Click to expand...

Lets say you have two identical computers but one with SSD and one with HD.

Load the program from SSD for the first time. Time it. Now load it from HD. Time it. Of course it would be faster from SSD.

Unload both. Now load the m again on both computers. The time will be mostly identical on both computers and much faster than from the first time from SSD.

Now put you computer to sleep. Wake it and it will wake up in just a few seconds. So it is much faster than booting from SSD. Now start the same programs and they load in about the same time as before you put your computer to sleep.

So the lesson learned here is to never shut down your computer. Just put it to sleep and it will be fast regardless if you use SSD or HD. I personally never shut down any of my computers. Always put them to sleep. Even my desktop only consumes few watts of power during sleep so no big deal.

Click to expand...

So, what you are saying is that a system with a HDD can, maybe, be as fast as an identical system with an SSD, as long as it is never shut dow, has enough memory to hold all data in RAM, and never, ever swaps out data to disk. Those are enough caveats to make one's head spin. You are missing the fact that the HDD is mostly taken out of the equation here. Your original statement is disproven by your own words.

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You don't have to believe me. Very easy to prove to yourself.

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traderjay said:

Before I perform the SD card RAW to JPEG conversion vs SSD, I can also 101% guarantee you that my nVME SSD will come out ahead in the total processing time. Why? Because access time alone when compounded is several magnitude faster than SD card, and a few hundred times faster than HDD:

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bent christian said:

bent christian said:

You don't have to believe me. Very easy to prove to yourself.

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Many of us have swapped out HDDs for SSDs in our more aging systems. We know what you are saying is false.

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SushiEater said:

traderjay said:

Before I perform the SD card RAW to JPEG conversion vs SSD, I can also 101% guarantee you that my nVME SSD will come out ahead in the total processing time. Why? Because access time alone when compounded is several magnitude faster than SD card, and a few hundred times faster than HDD:

--

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Perform the test before you can guaranty anything. What you showing is synthetic test targeting only SSD. But in this test it will take your system minimum 2 seconds to process one RAW file assuming it is not from the old camera and since it takes less to read this RAW file from SD which is done in the background while first RAW file is being processed the second RAW file will be ready to be processed as soon as the first one is finished. So at the best you will get the difference in time between the reading the first file from SD vs SSD. It will be much less than a second and if you process 100 files you will not even notice it. Even if you process 5 files you will not notice it.

I have done this hundreds of times from my build in SD reader and from SSD. I have also done this on my old laptop with USB 2.0 and external readers on CF cards. And from SSD in my new laptop after transferring and selecting all files I want to send to my agencies.

I even made video on this subject long time ago if you want to see it.

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SushiEater said:

Member said:

Member said:

You don't have to believe me. Very easy to prove to yourself.

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Many of us have swapped out HDDs for SSDs in our more aging systems. We know what you are saying is false.

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Your argument without proof is worthless. Just run a simple test right now and see for yourself. Just load one large program from your SSD and time it. Now unload it and load it again. It will load 2-3x faster depending on your CPU speed. Now put your computer to sleep. Wake it up. Now load the same program again and it will load just as fast as before you put your computer to sleep. Oh, and then I say sleep I don't mean Hibernate. If this does not prove anything to you I don't know what will.

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traderjay said:

Sure I will perform this test later tonight with maybe 50 RAW files from my 5D IV for the kicks. Your assessment might only hold true if the user is using only one or few applications in serial (Photoshop and Web browsing) that is not IO intensive

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traderjay said:

but industry consensus disagrees with you. You can argue till the cow comes home but the entire industry has moved forward and solid state is the de-facto OS standard for all medium to high end PCs/Macs.

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bent christian said:

SushiEater said:

bent christian said:

bent christian said:

You don't have to believe me. Very easy to prove to yourself.

Click to expand...

Many of us have swapped out HDDs for SSDs in our more aging systems. We know what you are saying is false.

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Your argument without proof is worthless. Just run a simple test right now and see for yourself. Just load one large program from your SSD and time it. Now unload it and load it again. It will load 2-3x faster depending on your CPU speed. Now put your computer to sleep. Wake it up. Now load the same program again and it will load just as fast as before you put your computer to sleep. Oh, and then I say sleep I don't mean Hibernate. If this does not prove anything to you I don't know what will.

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I don't need to run bechmark tests under specific criteria defined by you to know that my ten year-old Thinkpad is objectively faster now than is was the day I bought it. As I said - I have been using it for ten years straight, almost daily. Eight of that with a HDD. Oh, and no - I am not going never turn my computers off. That is ridiculous.

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Member said:

Every month I clone my laptop's SSD to a HD and run my laptop from HD for about a week.

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