Not sure I was given a good camera/lens recommendation.

I have a Sony RX10 that I use for website jewelry photography (sometimes things as large as purses) that I unfortunately have to send in for repair because the focus button is not working after two years. I have been very happy with it since it takes sharp images with great depth of field where a whole necklace can be in focus in an angled front shot, not just a section of it. I use LED light tents and boxes that are well lit and usually only had to adjust the photo levels and maybe a color cast in Adobe which was pretty efficient. I was using manual setting, manual white balance, about a 6.3 aperture 1/125 and 320 ISO with good results on white and gray backgrounds.

I decided I need to have a second camera for emergencies and thought I would upgrade. I went to a camera store for assistance, told them what I needed and they suggested the Panasonic GX85 along with a 12-35mm F2.8 II lens. I bought them even though it was way over my budget. I am wondering if I got the right combo to fit my needs? I have only used Sony point and shoot/bridge cameras on manual settings. Nothing with swappable lenses. I am pretty clueless as to whether or not this lens really is the right fit and I just have to find the right settings somehow?

When I try and take a photo of any jewelry larger than earrings, portions of it will be out of focus unless I zoom further out. Then the jewelry does not look nearly as sharp or as clear as I am used to with the Sony. I have tried adjusting the aperture up to 11 as they suggested and the overall photo quality goes way down. I have a Lumix DMC ZS100 and the photos its takes on manual are much clearer than the ones with this GX85 lens combo I just purchased. But still nothing is as sharp as what I was getting with the Sony RX10. Using focus stacking, increasing sharpness or i resolution does not help either. Auto setting and digital zoom are also poopie.

Just in case I cannot find a sweet spot with what I purchased, can anyone suggest a different lens that might work better with the GX85 for my product photography? Or a different bridge camera that will give me results the same as or better than the Sony RX10? I would like to be better prepared if I have to return to the camera shop.

Thank you!

DanaBates said:

I have tried adjusting the aperture up to 11 as they suggested and the overall photo quality goes way down

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"Overall" does not count. Precisely what is it that does not look right? Better yet, post the bad photo on this thread.

Kelly

If you are looking for a backup camera, there’s a lot to be said for getting a camera in the same system as your primary camera. That way it can use the same lenses and flashes as your primary camera.

On the other hand, if you are looking to get a camera to fit a need not met by your primary camera, it can make sense to buy a radically different camera.

DanaBates said:

I have a Sony RX10 that I use for website jewelry photography (sometimes things as large as purses) that I unfortunately have to send in for repair because the focus button is not working after two years. I have been very happy with it since it takes sharp images with great depth of field where a whole necklace can be in focus in an angled front shot, not just a section of it. I use LED light tents and boxes that are well lit and usually only had to adjust the photo levels and maybe a color cast in Adobe which was pretty efficient. I was using manual setting, manual white balance, about a 6.3 aperture 1/125 and 320 ISO with good results on white and gray backgrounds.

I decided I need to have a second camera for emergencies and thought I would upgrade. I went to a camera store for assistance, told them what I needed and they suggested the Panasonic GX85 along with a 12-35mm F2.8 II lens. I bought them even though it was way over my budget. I am wondering if I got the right combo to fit my needs? I have only used Sony point and shoot/bridge cameras on manual settings. Nothing with swappable lenses. I am pretty clueless as to whether or not this lens really is the right fit and I just have to find the right settings somehow?

When I try and take a photo of any jewelry larger than earrings, portions of it will be out of focus unless I zoom further out. Then the jewelry does not look nearly as sharp or as clear as I am used to with the Sony. I have tried adjusting the aperture up to 11 as they suggested and the overall photo quality goes way down.

Click to expand...

You need to engage the Depth of Field (DOF) Preview function. The lens normally stays wide open, regardless of the aperture you have selected until the moment of exposure. We used to call this "open aperture metering" in the film days.

With the DOF Preview function enabled, the lens will be at the working aperture you have selected during preview so you can see exactly what will and what will not be within the DOF.

The previous camera you had, had a slower lens (at the focal length you were probably shooting at) and a smaller sensor, all of which give a larger depth of field even with the lens wide open.

DanaBates said:

I have a Lumix DMC ZS100 and the photos its takes on manual are much clearer than the ones with this GX85 lens combo I just purchased. But still nothing is as sharp as what I was getting with the Sony RX10. Using focus stacking, increasing sharpness or i resolution does not help either. Auto setting and digital zoom are also poopie.

Click to expand...

You are confusing sharpness with DOF.

DanaBates said:

Just in case I cannot find a sweet spot with what I purchased, can anyone suggest a different lens that might work better with the GX85 for my product photography? Or a different bridge camera that will give me results the same as or better than the Sony RX10? I would like to be better prepared if I have to return to the camera shop.
Thank you!

Click to expand...

A dedicated macro lens. Or, and old manual 50mm SLR lens with extension tubes and an adapter.

Tedolph

Thanks Michael. The only thing my old RX10 did not do well was top down shots in my tents and my hard lightbox. I just got the Savage light pad with lights set-up in and that seemed to work better with it. Until it got stuck in focus and I will have to give it up for a bit to see if they will repair it under warrantee. That was one of the things I discussed with the photo shop before I purchased the new camera. I do like the way colors show up on my little Lumix that I sometimes have issues with on the Sony (yellow, orange and purple are the worst). That is why I went with their GX85 recommendation instead of buying another RX10 Mark 1.

I have not been able to get the same depth of field and overall sharpness with this particular lens and the GX85 that I am accustomed to. For $1000 more than an RX10, I would have like to get at least something equivalent and go from there. A jewelry photography website recommends a 18-55 mm lens and another recommends a 100 mm or 105 mm macro. So I am hoping someone has had good success taking photos of products with this GX85 camera and perhaps a different lens than the 12-35 mm f 2.8. I just need a combo that has an entire necklace or a bracelet in focus when shot from the front at an angle. I don't need a super close macro for jewelry hallmarks etc. since the DMC-ZS100 handles that well when I need it.

Tedolph,

Thank you! Constant preview is on and unfortunately that has not helped very much. =( I will write down your lens suggestions.

If the RX10 worked for you, why not just take the new camera back and get another RX10?

What works for you works, that's the best camera IMO.

DanaBates said:

Tedolph,

Thank you! Constant preview is on and unfortunately that has not helped very much. =( I will write down your lens suggestions.

Click to expand...

What F stop are you using?

tEdolph

Easy Rider,

Indeed. That might be what I end up doing. Unfortunately nobody had it in stock in store and the gentleman at the camera store pretty much told me that it was obsolete 'doh. The Mark III lens is too wide for my hard light box holes which is the only one they had in stock. I will have to have a Mark I shipped to me if I can't make this work. Mark IV is overkill I think. I want to upgrade but it seems like most folks in the stores are more familiar with best for low light, best video, sports shots, super zoom etc. and none of those things really apply to my situation.

Thank you for responding! =)

DanaBates said:

Easy Rider,

Indeed. That might be what I end up doing. Unfortunately nobody had it in stock in store and the gentleman at the camera store pretty much told me that it was obsolete 'doh. The Mark III lens is too wide for my hard light box holes which is the only one they had in stock. I will have to have a Mark I shipped to me if I can't make this work.

Click to expand...

You can make this work, you just have to find out what you are doing wrong.

Give us a sample photo with full EXIF data and we will walk you through this.

DanaBates said:

Mark IV is overkill I think. I want to upgrade but it seems like most folks in the stores are more familiar with best for low light, best video, sports shots, super zoom etc. and none of those things really apply to my situation.

Thank you for responding! =)

Click to expand...

Tedolph

DanaBates said:

Thanks Michael. The only thing my old RX10 did not do well was top down shots in my tents and my hard lightbox. I just got the Savage light pad with lights set-up in and that seemed to work better with it. Until it got stuck in focus and I will have to give it up for a bit to see if they will repair it under warrantee. That was one of the things I discussed with the photo shop before I purchased the new camera. I do like the way colors show up on my little Lumix that I sometimes have issues with on the Sony (yellow, orange and purple are the worst). That is why I went with their GX85 recommendation instead of buying another RX10 Mark 1.

I have not been able to get the same depth of field and overall sharpness with this particular lens and the GX85 that I am accustomed to. For $1000 more than an RX10, I would have like to get at least something equivalent and go from there. A jewelry photography website recommends a 18-55 mm lens and another recommends a 100 mm or 105 mm macro. So I am hoping someone has had good success taking photos of products with this GX85 camera and perhaps a different lens than the 12-35 mm f 2.8. I just need a combo that has an entire necklace or a bracelet in focus when shot from the front at an angle. I don't need a super close macro for jewelry hallmarks etc. since the DMC-ZS100 handles that well when I need it.

Click to expand...

I suspect the focal length recommendations are for a full frame camera. If you are using a crop body you will need to divide by the crop factor to get the corresponding focal length for your camera.

If the recommendation is for a 100mm lens, and you have a 2X crop body, you would use a 50mm lens. If you have a 1.5X crop body, you would use a 67mm lens.

Sharpness will depend on a number of factors including the overall quality of the lens. If the lens is not a sharp lens at close focus distances, you won't get sharp images.

If the old camera yielded enough depth of field, and the new camera does not, make sure you have the same angle of view and aperture diameter (this is not the same as f/stop).

For instance if a full frame gives the desired angle of view and depth of field at 100m - f/8, on a 2X body you would need 50mm - f/4. Both offer the same depth of field and the same 12.5mm aperture diameter (100mm/8 =50mm/4 = 12.5mm)

I've pretty much tried everything from F4 to 20. I am having hubby double-check what looks best for me too since I am going cross-eyed. I can get most of a necklace if I arrange it square-ish or a bracelet inside the focus area starting at F11. It just looks meh. I have tried adjusting the shutter speed, adjusted it to the zero mark on the meter, ignored the meter and tried what looked good on screen and I just can't seem to get it right. At F6.3 things in one area like the front look good, but then the back is blurry. At F11 everything is supposed to be in but /facedesk. Here is 6.3 which would be fine if I didn't need everything to be in focus. That is very important when you are selling used jewelry and you are disclosing condition.

It fits at F11 but not as nice as what I am used to.....

And just for the heck of it I took a pic with my RX10 which I cannot zoom, focus or make any adjustments because it is stuck. I can't show how nice it is when it is working but it still looks like this out of focus LOL. When it is in focus it is very sharp. The colors aren't as nice as the Lumix though.

I believe the Sony DSC-RX10 has a crop factor of 2.73. The Panasonic GX85 has a crop factor of 2.0.

At the same angle of view, If you want the GX85 to match the depth of field of the DSC-RX10, you will need to stop down by a factor of 1.37.

If the RX10 gives you the desired DoF at f/6.3, you should try f/8.6 on the GX85.

If your image is still too soft, it may not be a depth of field issue. Some cameras produce soft images if you turn on image stabilization while the camera is on a tripod. Some lenses are not optimized for sharp images at close focal ranges.

If you hadn't already bought a camera, I would recommend you find a used tilt/shift or perspective control lens, and a compatible used body. Lens that tilt are designed for taking these sorts of images. You can tilt the plane of focus to match the tilted product.

DanaBates said:

I've pretty much tried everything from F4 to 20. I am having hubby double-check what looks best for me too since I am going cross-eyed. I can get most of a necklace if I arrange it square-ish or a bracelet inside the focus area starting at F11. It just looks meh. I have tried adjusting the shutter speed, adjusted it to the zero mark on the meter, ignored the meter and tried what looked good on screen and I just can't seem to get it right. At F6.3 things in one area like the front look good, but then the back is blurry. At F11 everything is supposed to be in but /facedesk. Here is 6.3 which would be fine if I didn't need everything to be in focus. That is very important when you are selling used jewelry and you are disclosing condition.

Click to expand...

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. shutter speed = 1/400, ISO 320, f/6.3.

As you can see, you need a lot more Depth of Field (DOF) to get all of this in focus, something more like f/16. That means you will be losing about 2 1/2 F stops, let's say three just to make things easy. I assume you are shooting on a tripod so you don't need to be shooting at 1/400 sec. Drop your shutter speed by three F stops, about 1/60 sec. and you will get the same exposure but much more depth of field. Understand that the DOF extends 1/3 in front of your plane of focus, and 2/3 behind your plane of focus. So, focus on something about 1/3 of the way into the scene, e.g. maybe the first curve in the chain, so that you don't "waste" any of the DOF in front of or behind the scene. You must use manual focus to do this, i.e. turning the ring on the lens and not allowing the camera to re-focus. That is put the camera in manual focus mode allways. Now engage the DOF preview so you can see if everything you want is in the DOF.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You must place the plane of focus with the lens wide open with AF turned OFF. THEN stop down the lens to the working aperture to see where the DOF is. If you try to focus the lens with the DOF preview function on, you will not be able to see where the plane of focus is if you have selected small aperture, like f/16.

You can even try going to f/22 but you may see some softness from diffraction.

Also, I would shoot at the long end of the zoom lens. That is usually where the greatest magnification factor is.

Finally, turn off the image stabilizer if you are on a tripod and use a remote release or the self timer so you don't move the camera during the exposure.

Tedolph

DanaBates said:

I've pretty much tried everything from F4 to 20. I am having hubby double-check what looks best for me too since I am going cross-eyed. I can get most of a necklace if I arrange it square-ish or a bracelet inside the focus area starting at F11. It just looks meh. I have tried adjusting the shutter speed, adjusted it to the zero mark on the meter, ignored the meter and tried what looked good on screen and I just can't seem to get it right. At F6.3 things in one area like the front look good, but then the back is blurry. At F11 everything is supposed to be in but /facedesk. Here is 6.3 which would be fine if I didn't need everything to be in focus. That is very important when you are selling used jewelry and you are disclosing condition.

Click to expand...

If I were shooting something like that I would do focus stacking: That's taking a number of pictures at different focus planes and combining them to get a single image that's sharp all over.

This is a time-consuming process but the GX85 incorporates it automatically. You should try this feature out (I don't have a GX85 but I do focus stacking in Photoshop).

--
Leonard Migliore

DanaBates said:

It fits at F11 but not as nice as what I am used to.....

Click to expand...

You might still need more DOF, or you need to learn where to put the plane of focus.



Also drop your shutter speed and ISO.



tEdolph

DanaBates said:

And just for the heck of it I took a pic with my RX10 which I cannot zoom, focus or make any adjustments because it is stuck. I can't show how nice it is when it is working but it still looks like this out of focus LOL. When it is in focus it is very sharp. The colors aren't as nice as the Lumix though.

Click to expand...

Because of the smaller sensor, this camera naturally has a much deeper DOF at the same aperture as the m4/3 camera.



tEdolph

Michael Fryd said:

I believe the Sony DSC-RX10 has a crop factor of 2.73. The Panasonic GX85 has a crop factor of 2.0.

At the same angle of view, If you want the GX85 to match the depth of field of the DSC-RX10, you will need to stop down by a factor of 1.37.

If the RX10 gives you the desired DoF at f/6.3, you should try f/8.6 on the GX85.

If your image is still too soft, it may not be a depth of field issue. Some cameras produce soft images if you turn on image stabilization while the camera is on a tripod. Some lenses are not optimized for sharp images at close focal ranges.

If you hadn't already bought a camera, I would recommend you find a used tilt/shift or perspective control lens, and a compatible used body. Lens that tilt are designed for taking these sorts of images. You can tilt the plane of focus to match the tilted product.

Click to expand...

M4/3 can use tilt/shift lenses but I don't think she needs to go there. F/11 or f/16 should do the job if she puts the plane of focus in the right place.

tEdolph