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DXO photolab!

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JoachimStrobel said:
The Exposure correction has no "SMART" Option any more. And for my Raws, the automatic face detection for smart lightning did not work, only for Jpegs.
Click to expand...
Yes, the "SMART" option has been removed - also the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting ... which is an option I used extensively.

A warning too, if you have images already processed using OpticsPro (11, etc) ... then PhotoLab does not replicate the results very well - and, it overwrites the dop file originally created with OpticsPro - so that OpticsPro-specific settings, such as selection of the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting, are lost.

I took a collection of 220 [RAW + dop] images originally processed with OpticsPro11 - and opened them with PhotoLab - then I exported to JPG (with no changes made from within PhotoLab).

I found significant differences between the JPGs produced by OP versus PL.

Moral: DON'T open [RAW + dop] images (originally created with OpticsPro) with PhotoLab - unless you intend to convert irretrievably to PhotoLab - and you're prepared to go with the PhotoLab approximations of your OpticsPro adjustments.
 
Don't open any existing [RAW + dop] combos where the dop/sidecar file was created with OpticsPro (OP) - - because PhotoLab (PL) converts the sidecar to PL format, overwriting the OP version in the process.

This matters a lot if you have applied the OpticsPro-9 algorithm for Smart Lighting in OP - because PL no longer supports this algorithm (sob!) - and the conversion process results in a very poor approximation of the result previously achieved using the OpticsPro-9 algorithm with OP.

Also, this dop/sidecar conversion process seems to have a few bugs in it; Virtuals created & subsequently deleted in OP are "raised from the dead" in PL ... plus, crops made in OP are lost, in some cases - and ditto for perspective corrections.

I have reported these glitches to DxO, and I'm sure they'll be fixed very soon ... Meanwhile, tho, I'm being careful NOT to open OP-created sidecars with PL.
 
The good news then is, that PL and DOP can happily exist next to each other. LR has two plugins to shuffle data across and also creates two different collections for returning photos. And there might be a good reason why PL does not pick up DOP's database by default.

I did process a couple of photos in parallel first believing that DOP is better, but it turned out that PL is not behind and I have the impression, but cannot show it for the moment, that PL renders even more crisper images than DOP.
 
I got an impression that this is a rush product and even if buy I would wait for next version

To me the most attractive feature is Prime NR and DXO still name it Prime 2016 which mean it has not been improved

Hope the next version would bring some improvement to Prime NR speed and efficiency
 
JohnTheKeenAmateur said:
JoachimStrobel said:
The Exposure correction has no "SMART" Option any more. And for my Raws, the automatic face detection for smart lightning did not work, only for Jpegs.
Click to expand...
Yes, the "SMART" option has been removed - also the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting ... which is an option I used extensively.

Regards, John (the keen amateur)
Click to expand...
why? "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting better than default smart lighting in OP 11?
 
Jefftan said:
I got an impression that this is a rush product and even if buy I would wait for next version
Click to expand...
I was getting that impression as well, from some of the comments in this thread, until I spent about four hours going through the product myself. While there are a few aspects that are rushed (the unfinished documentation most especially), I am actually impressed: I find the product to be polished, with the new tools fairly well-integrated in what was probably a short amount of development time. Most especially, I'm glad that the edits remain so non-destructive. Yes, there is want for more. The undesirable changes seem intentional, for better or worse, and are perhaps evolutionary. I will have to make some decisions around that - but that is on me.
To me the most attractive feature is Prime NR and DXO still name it Prime 2016 which mean it has not been improved Where do you see it still named PRIME 2016? That was new in OP 11 said:
Yes, the "SMART" option has been removed - also the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting ... which is an option I used extensively.

A warning too, if you have images already processed using OpticsPro (11, etc) ... then PhotoLab does not replicate the results very well - and, it overwrites the dop file originally created with OpticsPro - so that OpticsPro-specific settings, such as selection of the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting, are lost.
Click to expand...
Oh, wow - I'm stunned. The documentation still mentions versions 7 and 9, mistakenly calling them "PhotoLab" instead of "OpticsPro." But lo, they are not in there! That's a bummer. The uniqueness of the rendering I get with the legacy options will be missed! And I'd rather not have to start over with my adjustments or remember which version of OP I used to develop an older image. (I do have all of them installed on my PC, in case I ever need to go back - but the risk of having my sidecar files overwritten makes this rather difficult to manage in practice.)

Surely, it wouldn't have hurt to keep those options in Smart Lighting! I will provide some feedback to DxO about that. Nevertheless, I have to admit that I have not found the old OP9 setting worth using for photos I'm willing to retouch from scratch. I've found that later versions of Smart Lighting offer a vast improvement. Likewise, IMO, the PhotoLab implementation offers a noticeable improvement over OP11, and so I'd rather use it if not too inconvenient. Furthermore, it should still be possible to preview the image in PhotoLab before going to Customize and applying changes to the sidecar file.

Ah, well. Make lemonade out of lemons, right?

--
On Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/revgv/

[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:
GSB1 said:
IanYorke said:
There have been some comments on the export speed of DXO-PL compared to DXO Optics Pro.

I just ran my own tests and the average speed of conversion to jpg for 49 (20Mb) images using PRIME NR was 21 and 22s/image. So no significant difference between them

Ian
Click to expand...
That's good performance, what spec machine are you using to achieve that please?
Click to expand...
I exported 243 images where the majority used Prime the other day and it took roughly 1 hour and 10 minutes. Fulled sized JPEGS (100%) at 24MP.
 
Gonzie said:
GSB1 said:
IanYorke said:
There have been some comments on the export speed of DXO-PL compared to DXO Optics Pro.

I just ran my own tests and the average speed of conversion to jpg for 49 (20Mb) images using PRIME NR was 21 and 22s/image. So no significant difference between them

Ian
Click to expand...
That's good performance, what spec machine are you using to achieve that please?
Click to expand...
I exported 243 images where the majority used Prime the other day and it took roughly 1 hour and 10 minutes. Fulled sized JPEGS (100%) at 24MP.
Click to expand...
Same question to you then please.
 
I exported 40 Nikon D750 Raw images (JPEG 100%) using Prime, ISO ranged from 1000 to 12800. Photolab took 13 minutes to export these files. I ran a few other tests and it appears that Prime processing takes between 20 and 24 seconds per image.

My PC: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X (8 core) processor, 16Gb of RAM and a fast SSD running Windows 10. I have Photolab set to process 8 images simultaneously in the preferences.

Sirraj
 
I processed the same RAW photo with 50% Prime NR: 1:09 in PL, 1:20 in DPOV11.

I attach these two photos, processed with exactly the same setting, as attached. They are different which is a bit disturbing. I guess it is smart Lighning. For me PL wins, but I am puzzled, what is happening here?

(Both exported as 100% Jpeg)





DOP V11
DOP V11



PL
PL



PL and DOP Settings
PL and DOP Settings
 
JohnTheKeenAmateur said:
JoachimStrobel said:
The Exposure correction has no "SMART" Option any more. And for my Raws, the automatic face detection for smart lightning did not work, only for Jpegs.
Click to expand...
Yes, the "SMART" option has been removed - also the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting ... which is an option I used extensively.
Click to expand...
The "Smart" option for exposure correction was removed in OpticsPro 11 or even 10. They explained it well that time that whatever it did got incorporated into the Smart Lighting. The exposure correction option was left for manual corrections and became inactive in the default preset.

When those changes were made (long time ago) I was happy with the new Smart Lighting, and I believe most reviews were positive, too, at that time. I don't understand why you are crying about it. Did you just discover OpticsPro 9? It's very old. DxO probably removed the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting as obsolete and redundant.
 
Pov2 said:
...DxO probably removed the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting as obsolete and redundant.
Click to expand...
I'm coming to suspect that, as OpticsPro evolves into PhotoLab, it is becoming incompatible with older versions. The developers might have decided to end support of older algorithms along with that. Case in point - I can not open many of my older virtual copies in PL. Hopefully, that's just a bug that will be fixed. It's holding me back right now.

Another case in point - the online help page for "Basic Editing" - which includes Smart Lighting - is presently offline. It redirects to the Intro page. Yesterday, as I recall, it incorrectly stated that "PhotoLab 9" and "PhotoLab 7" are options in the "DxO Smart Lighting" module.

Time will tell.
 
Exposure correction Smart exists in DOPV11. It switches ExposureCorrection to off when smart lightning is engaged and sets is to "low highlight" if SL is off.
 
GSB1 said:
IanYorke said:
There have been some comments on the export speed of DXO-PL compared to DXO Optics Pro.

I just ran my own tests and the average speed of conversion to jpg for 49 (20Mb) images using PRIME NR was 21 and 22s/image. So no significant difference between them

Ian
Click to expand...
That's good performance, what spec machine are you using to achieve that please?
Click to expand...
It's a 4 year old desktop. i7 Sandybridge 3820 with a clock speed of 3.6GHz and 16Gb of ram.

It has a big air cooler and I have overclocked it to 4.3GHz using the auto O/C facility on the Asus MB. The auto O/C winds it up to 4.6 so I knock that back to 4.30GHz for safety.

I use a Samsung Evo 500Gb OS drive and have a second 500Gb SSD as a "cache" drive for programs and a temp drive for video files when I am processing videos.

The GPU is a Nvidia 1060 (single fan /power connector) with 6Gb ram. You often see people recommending minimum spend on GPU because PS /LR don't make much use of a GPU. While this is correct GPU processing is very much the future in increasing computer power. A 1060 gives about the best bang for the buck and many programs will utilise it effectively. 6Gb of video ram gives enough room for processing files in memory. Programs like PTGui will use as much video ram as you throw at it and the 1060 makes it really fast:-)

I may replace the cpu /motherboard in the near future so that I can get NVMe SSD that attach directly to the M/B and increase the number of cores which is the other way of upping power. Although the software needs to be multi threaded to get the advantage.

Ian
 
Egregius V said:
Pov2 said:
...DxO probably removed the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting as obsolete and redundant.
Click to expand...
I'm coming to suspect that, as OpticsPro evolves into PhotoLab, it is becoming incompatible with older versions. The developers might have decided to end support of older algorithms along with that. Case in point - I can not open many of my older virtual copies in PL. Hopefully, that's just a bug that will be fixed. It's holding me back right now.

Another case in point - the online help page for "Basic Editing" - which includes Smart Lighting - is presently offline. It redirects to the Intro page. Yesterday, as I recall, it incorrectly stated that "PhotoLab 9" and "PhotoLab 7" are options in the "DxO Smart Lighting" module.

Time will tell.
Click to expand...
 
GSB1 said:
Gonzie said:
GSB1 said:
IanYorke said:
There have been some comments on the export speed of DXO-PL compared to DXO Optics Pro.

I just ran my own tests and the average speed of conversion to jpg for 49 (20Mb) images using PRIME NR was 21 and 22s/image. So no significant difference between them

Ian
Click to expand...
That's good performance, what spec machine are you using to achieve that please?
Click to expand...
I exported 243 images where the majority used Prime the other day and it took roughly 1 hour and 10 minutes. Fulled sized JPEGS (100%) at 24MP.
Click to expand...
Same question to you then please.
Click to expand...
1800x slight over clock to 3.8 ghz, 16gb of ram running at 3200 mhz, have a m.2 drive, but all of my photos are on a HDD.

Don't have the numbers, but was running a 2500k at 4.3 ghz and 8gb of RAM before and exporting is much quicker. Wish I timed it before the upgrade :)
 
Jefftan said:
JohnTheKeenAmateur said:
JoachimStrobel said:
The Exposure correction has no "SMART" Option any more. And for my Raws, the automatic face detection for smart lightning did not work, only for Jpegs.
Click to expand...
Yes, the "SMART" option has been removed - also the "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting ... which is an option I used extensively.

Regards, John (the keen amateur)
Click to expand...
why? "Optics Pro 9" algorithm for Smart Lighting better than default smart lighting in OP 11?
Click to expand...
You're missing my point - I'm not making arguing that the Optics-Pro-9 algorithm is any better or worse than the new(er) Smart-Lighting algorithm (tho, I did find that the OP-9 algorithm worked well for me) ... BUT, that one shouldn't open [RAW + dop] images (originally created with OpticsPro) with PhotoLab - unless you intend to convert irretrievably to PhotoLab - and you're prepared to go with the PhotoLab approximations of your OpticsPro adjustments ... 'cos PhotoLab converts and replaces the dop/sidecar file.
 
IanYorke said:
GSB1 said:
IanYorke said:
There have been some comments on the export speed of DXO-PL compared to DXO Optics Pro.

I just ran my own tests and the average speed of conversion to jpg for 49 (20Mb) images using PRIME NR was 21 and 22s/image. So no significant difference between them

Ian
Click to expand...
That's good performance, what spec machine are you using to achieve that please?
Click to expand...
It's a 4 year old desktop. i7 Sandybridge 3820 with a clock speed of 3.6GHz and 16Gb of ram.

It has a big air cooler and I have overclocked it to 4.3GHz using the auto O/C facility on the Asus MB. The auto O/C winds it up to 4.6 so I knock that back to 4.30GHz for safety.

I use a Samsung Evo 500Gb OS drive and have a second 500Gb SSD as a "cache" drive for programs and a temp drive for video files when I am processing videos.

The GPU is a Nvidia 1060 (single fan /power connector) with 6Gb ram. You often see people recommending minimum spend on GPU because PS /LR don't make much use of a GPU. While this is correct GPU processing is very much the future in increasing computer power. A 1060 gives about the best bang for the buck and many programs will utilise it effectively. 6Gb of video ram gives enough room for processing files in memory. Programs like PTGui will use as much video ram as you throw at it and the 1060 makes it really fast:-)

I may replace the cpu /motherboard in the near future so that I can get NVMe SSD that attach directly to the M/B and increase the number of cores which is the other way of upping power. Although the software needs to be multi threaded to get the advantage.

Ian
Click to expand...
Seems PhotoLab is better optimized for Windows than for macOS. Everyone finding equal performance between PL and OP seems to be running Windows. I'm running a Mac. I've asked DxO to work on getting their Mac version up to speed. Any other Mac users finding a discrepancy?

UPDATE Nov. 6: PhotoLab 1.0.1 update eliminates the speed discrepancy. Yay. It's sharper than OP11, too.

--
If you think digital is hard, try slide film.
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos
 
Last edited:
JoachimStrobel said:
Exposure correction Smart exists in DOPV11. It switches ExposureCorrection to off when smart lightning is engaged and sets is to "low highlight" if SL is off.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected - the exposure correction Smart exists in OpticsPro 11 and 10 but shouldn't be used. Here is what I found in the DxO OpticsPro 10 User Guide page 29:

"NOTE In previous versions of DxO OpticsPro, Exposure compensation, set on Smart, was part of the DxO Standard default preset. Starting with DxO OpticsPro 10, Exposure compensation is no longer activated by default, as DxO Smart Lighting has taken over all of the automatic tone corrections."

I think they left it for compatibility reasons with older versions. And now they decided it was enough and removed it.

I don't know if the OpticsPro 10 User Guide can still be found online. I have it as a file on my computer. Downloaded when I got version 10. I remember this issue confused me at the time as much as it confuses you now. But for me it was 2014.
 
I agree that Smart is not very Smart, and it does what the manual suggests: Once you move the SL slider it is set to off. So yes, removing it is probably defendable. However, Smart Lighning as such changed, and even if the sidecards would be compatible, the results are not.
 
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