RX10IV is not good for BIF ? (1st Session Results)

In past testings (long time ago), I usually start on a positive note. Now that I am starting to get back again into doing more BIFs (after slowing down in the last few years, sort of a recovering BIF addict ), maybe better to set the mind set from a negative point of view - that the new RX10IV is not good enough for BIF (Birds In Flight). This attitude may encourage me to seek as much BIF performance as possible in a limited time.

After more than a decade of BIF shooting and the consideration for age advancement, it is only a natural progression on wanting a smaller and lighter (affordable?) system. The RX10IV is not smaller but a bit lighter and in a all-in-one 24mm-600mm equivalent alternative. The rental RX10IV arrived Friday afternoon (10/20) and was placed into field testing Friday afternoon (about 1.5 hrs.), Saturday (10/21), Monday (10/23) and Thursday (10/26) mornings (about 2+ hrs. each).

Test area/Test conditions: - 1st session in the levee/slough of the Palo Alto Baylands (Silicon Valley). I used two locations previously used in the past with BIF subjects mostly from 100 ft - 200 ft. It was mid afternoon with the sun always playing with the clouds. See pic below for a visual reference.



Used my baseline manual settings (from my A77II+Tamron600/Bigma and A6300+FE100-400 or 55-210mm+front TC) except for using AutoISO and often, Auto W/B.
-Shutter speed from 1/1600 – 1/2500; Aperture from f8 – f9/10; CAF, Wide AF area, Hi Burst, Vivid, JPG (yes, 100% JPG) etc.

Dumped all OOC JPG shots (usable, so-so, soft, bad, etc.) in this link- 1st BIF Session OOC JPGS Data Dump. Just deleted gross misfocused, gross body parts captured and repeated still images (since I just maintained High burst for all test shots).

Observations/Experiences:

- In spite of lots of underexposed/overexposed shots from AutoISO settings (Underexposed samples ; Overexposed samples ); quite fast AF acquisition even on surprised panning/melee shots. True P&S functionality even with one hand. So far, edging out my A6300 focus acquisition experience in CAF setting. Direct links for indicated samples: Single subject panning/medium distance ; Distant single subject panning with busy background ; Distant group panning ; Melee shot (when subjects were suddenly disturbed) ; Incoming but big and slow ; Group panning with busy background ; Group flying away ; Tandem flight panning; Sort of incoming medium subject but slow ; etc. Smaller birds came in the 2nd or 3rd sessions and sort of some indirect incoming.

- Good focus locking (for like in 30 and beyond BIF frames in a longer burst but with some focus degradation in between frames, need to look further- sample link Series with varying focus results, close panning ) at 100% look.

- Although in a similar bulk as a regular DSLR, it is a bit lighter in weight compared to my current BIF systems. However the lightness made me over travel my panning in all directions as I am used on a heavier system. This created more than my usual share of subject body parts at the edge or beyond the frame. This was especially true during my 1st and 2nd sessions. By the 3rd session, I was aware of this and tried to use my eyebrow (forcing it against the viewfinder) for added panning control. I was also testing the FE100-400mm lens + A6300 during all of the RX10IV BIF testings. See the first link for various samples of misplaced subject 1st BIF Session OOC JPGS Data Dump

- As I am used on systems with adequate heft and space for the left hand support of the lens, the limited lens space on the RX10IV cramped both my hands and had to clip my arms tighter to my body. This creates an uncomfortable shooting position and quite affected my panning motions. Tried to get the left hand support from the lens extension but the smaller diameter was quite uncomfortable.

- Initial play with Auto ISO combined with Auto W/B in a cloudy afternoon was quite disappointing. Same experience I had with all Sony cameras I used employing Auto ISO (A77, A77II, A6000 and A6300) – it gave me high ISO when I need a lower one and vice versa. Played AutoISO at all available metering options. Indoor stills seems ok but not in the field for BIFs. Need to look some more into this if I have time or decided to buy one.

From the 1st session results with not so great light condition (morning light in the test area gives me a sun at my back, afternoon sun was coming more from my right), it is looking like the RX10IV is not bad for BIF :-D. I am a 99.9% JPG shooter and probably one could extract better post processing results with RAW (from underexposed/overexposed shots).

Some processed shots from the session:


Male&Female Northern Shovelers - straight, predictable flier when not doing the crazy fast landings


Male? American Wigeon - ok straight flier but the Teals are faster and more challenging


American Avocet - most often, steady /predictable flier


Male American Wigeons


Female Northern Harrier - slow and very predictable flier


Female Norther Shovelers


Male Northern Shoveler


Male&Female (?) American Wigeons -


Male&Female Northern Shovelers with Male&Female American Wigeons

--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

Very nice. Having attended Stanford I appreciate the location. And now we can say "Silicon Valley is for the birds" ;-)

You should add the RX10 IV to your gear list, Gil. It's earned it!

--
Phil

Thanks for sharing your testing routine, images and results. You obviously have the skill to capture BIF, creating beautiful images.

It's great to see you have no issues switching back and forth from fixed zoom lens to traditional systems. I've seen a few reviews where the shooters were disappointed in how the lens/focus didn't work as easily or as good as traditional. I suspect they had not used a fixed lens based camera before and didn't have the technique down.

For me, the only negative thing about your first session is the impact it may have on my wallet.

Dodge_Rock said:

Thanks for sharing your testing routine, images and results. You obviously have the skill to capture BIF, creating beautiful images.

It's great to see you have no issues switching back and forth from fixed zoom lens to traditional systems. I've seen a few reviews where the shooters were disappointed in how the lens/focus didn't work as easily or as good as traditional. I suspect they had not used a fixed lens based camera before and didn't have the technique down.

For me, the only negative thing about your first session is the impact it may have on my wallet.

Click to expand...

Yes superzooms don't function the same as ICL cameras. What I do wish is the camera had direct manual control for the zoom ring and power zoom with the zoom lever. A switch for changing between the two would probably be required. Direct manual focus control, not by wire, would be nice. Lastly a fully articulating screen like the one found on the A 77ii/99ii would be a welcome feature.

None of those shortcomings prevented me from buying an RX10iii because overall the cameras are so good I can live with those compromises.

Looking good there, Gil. Nice shots all - love the shovelers in flight and the wigeon.

Also good to see you're getting back into some BIF...I hadn't realized what was missing around these boards until I realized I hadn't been seeing your BIF work. Being as similar as we are (having had several of the same camera and lens combos over the years, and both being fairly dedicated JPG shooters), I've always enjoyed following your posts and BIFs as much as posting my own.


I haven't gotten the RX10IV - it's a tempting thing - looks fantastic, and what I used to always wish for back when I was shooting with Sony P&S bodies. Currently using the A6300 and the FE100-400mm lens combo, which I'm enjoying thoroughly...it's a bit heavy, but feels small and light compared to the DSLR setups I've used.

I had the original RX10, and it's a great camera - I still occasionally use it for travel...I do wish I had the much longer reach lens of the III and IV, and the PDAF and processor of the IV. Who knows - if I ever came upon a big sale opportunity I might consider picking one up to add to the collection.

Gil, great to see you back again and fun to see the old stomping grounds again. As usual you seem to get the very best out if the gear. I just picked up the 10iv myself and am considering coming down to Palo Alto for old times sake. If only the weather weren't so unpredictable. Here in Sacramento, what you see is what you get. I couldn't even count the number of times I left home in SJ with bright blue skies and ended up in heavy cloud/fog in Palo Alto. Back then, I could just turn around and go home and back to bed. Not so much driving from Sac. Keep up the good work. Your observations and tips are as always, invaluable. Say hi to Luise if you ever see him out there.

Wow, great shots. One tip - keep the lens wide open. There is generally little to be gained when stopping down on this camera (due to sensor size). You are already losing a significant amount of sharpness at f8, which is particularly valuable when shooting birds since they can often require quite a bit of cropping.

great writeup ..... more of the same please

You were also testing the a6300 + 100-400mm at the same time?

In terms of Image Quality and Keeper Rate, which would you choose, the RX10IV or the a6300 combo?

Thanks for your reports!

Really great to see you again, Gil! Your images are always so enjoyable to view.

For those that may not know Gil, he can take exceptional photos with the bottom of a coke bottle for a lens.

the fall migration as it is a very open space and I like the morning sun at my back in my primary BIF birding locations. I wish I could maintain it but the wife could only allow one - the RX10IV or the FE100-400mm :-D.

regards,

gil

PC Wheeler said:

Very nice. Having attended Stanford I appreciate the location. And now we can say "Silicon Valley is for the birds" ;-)

You should add the RX10 IV to your gear list, Gil. It's earned it!

Click to expand...

my BIF and thus, I am fully aware most of the advantages/disadvantages. The RX10IV is a fun but pricey camera for BIFs and if one is not fully conscious on the 100% look, results should be enjoyable. For limited still samples including some flower close ups, results were pretty usable. I was impressed with the wide angle shots I field sampled. Same story here, need more funds if I want to have one .

regards,

gil

Dodge_Rock said:

Thanks for sharing your testing routine, images and results. You obviously have the skill to capture BIF, creating beautiful images.

It's great to see you have no issues switching back and forth from fixed zoom lens to traditional systems. I've seen a few reviews where the shooters were disappointed in how the lens/focus didn't work as easily or as good as traditional. I suspect they had not used a fixed lens based camera before and didn't have the technique down.

For me, the only negative thing about your first session is the impact it may have on my wallet.

Click to expand...

another old hobby (basic tinkering of old/cheap audio) when you showed a setup from the past - using front teleconverters on the 55-210mm. It started my entry to the E-mount with the NEXF3 as I still have left over TCs from my Panasonic FZ days. Somehow maintaining interest in BIFs even on a limited basis. Now that I am considering early retirement, it is only logical to get back to some fun stuff.

Hmm, in getting the FE100-400 (had to beg the wife that I have not celebrated my few birthdays and no Christmas gifts lately), I just seen your results and that was it. See, all your fault.

The RX10IV is really fun for BIF especially the AF performance/acquisition (advantages of the smaller sensor coupled with new electronics?) but for pixel peepers, it shows the limitations of the smaller sensor. Anyway, I was happy with it with the limited time except for one glitch during the 3rd session.

Rent one and see how it blends with your fun factor.

Thanks and regards,

gil

P.S. We will continue the fun in the E-mount section with the FE100-400mm.

zackiedawg said:

Looking good there, Gil. Nice shots all - love the shovelers in flight and the wigeon.

Also good to see you're getting back into some BIF...I hadn't realized what was missing around these boards until I realized I hadn't been seeing your BIF work. Being as similar as we are (having had several of the same camera and lens combos over the years, and both being fairly dedicated JPG shooters), I've always enjoyed following your posts and BIFs as much as posting my own.

I haven't gotten the RX10IV - it's a tempting thing - looks fantastic, and what I used to always wish for back when I was shooting with Sony P&S bodies. Currently using the A6300 and the FE100-400mm lens combo, which I'm enjoying thoroughly...it's a bit heavy, but feels small and light compared to the DSLR setups I've used.

I had the original RX10, and it's a great camera - I still occasionally use it for travel...I do wish I had the much longer reach lens of the III and IV, and the PDAF and processor of the IV. Who knows - if I ever came upon a big sale opportunity I might consider picking one up to add to the collection.

Click to expand...

fun and plentiful in your side of the state. From time to time, I go to the Sacramento Wild Life Preserves for the Gesees/others and the Consumnes Preserve/Staten Island Rd. (for the Sandhill Cranes) during the fall migration. Yes, happened to me a lot of times - sunny in SJ and miserable in PAB but I had some good sessions from time to time. The last time I've seen/talked to Luis was like more than 2 years ago. I looked into his Flickr account before but haven't done it for some years now. As I might frequent PAB/other nearby birding areas this fall - spring, I'll give your regards if I see him. Radio Rd. in Redwood was closed for renovation from last visit a few weeks back.

Regards and nice hearing from you again,

gil

dr jim said:

Gil, great to see you back again and fun to see the old stomping grounds again. As usual you seem to get the very best out if the gear. I just picked up the 10iv myself and am considering coming down to Palo Alto for old times sake. If only the weather weren't so unpredictable. Here in Sacramento, what you see is what you get. I couldn't even count the number of times I left home in SJ with bright blue skies and ended up in heavy cloud/fog in Palo Alto. Back then, I could just turn around and go home and back to bed. Not so much driving from Sac. Keep up the good work. Your observations and tips are as always, invaluable. Say hi to Luise if you ever see him out there.

Click to expand...

it is hard to deviate from old habits especially when I have limited testing time. Except on the 1st session, I was mostly testing the RX10IV side by side with my A6300+FE100-100mm and wanted to maintain similar settings (of course the baseline limitations on sensor size differences will always show). Also in the 1st session, still getting familiar with it with experimentation on how the AutoISO will compensate for the light needs - apparently, still not good like all previous experiences.

In the 2nd to 4th BIF test sessions, I was shooting all manual in sunny mornings (my comfort zones) and results were better at f8.

regards,

gil

1AvidHiker said:

Wow, great shots. One tip - keep the lens wide open. There is generally little to be gained when stopping down on this camera (due to sensor size). You are already losing a significant amount of sharpness at f8, which is particularly valuable when shooting birds since they can often require quite a bit of cropping.

Click to expand...

retirement (and if my wife allows me more BIF time), will try to exhaust all available BIF fun this fall to spring and will share.

cheers,

gil

Marti58 said:

great writeup ..... more of the same please

Click to expand...

A6300+FE100-400 after the 1st session. If I won't pixel peep, there seems to be more usable frames from the RX10IV but quality wise, the A6300+FE100-400 gives better details/backgrounds. For pure fun, the winner is the RX10IV. I should be posting some FE100-400 results next week.

regards,

gil

PhilthePhrame said:

You were also testing the a6300 + 100-400mm at the same time?

In terms of Image Quality and Keeper Rate, which would you choose, the RX10IV or the a6300 combo?

Thanks for your reports!

Click to expand...

a while. Finally my wife allowed me to buy a better lens (FE100-400) as she got tired of seeing too many coke bottles in the house :-D. During my experimental days, too much accumulation of cheap lenses especially when being adapted into the E-mount. After working for more than 30 years in the electronics industry and laid-off this year (new management came in), I am seriously considering early retirement as I am 62 now and just concentrate on my hobbies (after prioritizing the wife :-D).

cheers,

gil

busch said:

Really great to see you again, Gil! Your images are always so enjoyable to view.

For those that may not know Gil, he can take exceptional photos with the bottom of a coke bottle for a lens.

Click to expand...

come (Christmas too) and there are possibilities . I already have the A-mount (A77II+ Tamron150-600/Sigma 50-500) and the E-mount (A6300+ FE100-400/various other but affordable lenses) and should be adequate for now for Birding purposes.

gil