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$1400 Full frame vs $1350 APS-C?

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ktmei

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Researching into getting a Sony A7 or Fujifilm X-T1.

Here's what I've found:

Sony A7 ~$700-800 used
Sony 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 ~$200 used
Sony 50mm f2.8 Macro ~$400 used

Total - around $1400

Fujifilm X-T1 ~$450-550
Fujifilm 18-55 f2.8-4 ~$400
Fujifilm 23mm f2 or 35mm f2 ~$400

Total - around $1350

So there is not much of a price difference between the two cameras and lenses, I know the obvious would be to get the A7 for its full frame capability and shallow DOF that can be achieved. However, what makes Fuji a high end product that it almost costs the same as the A7? Should I just get the A7?
 
So it appears that the a7 gear is used while the Fuji gear is new? That would explain the lack of a price difference.

Kelly
 
Two things should help you decide actually. End-usage and operational convenience. Sony will give you the advantage of FF has over APSC as well as 4K Video recording.

Maybe the comparison at DPR may help. XT1 seems to score on Stills while A7 scores in Video :

9db8461c7211442887bfa500306fe89e.jpg




Madhav Bodas
 
Neither camera was great compared to its peers. The faster lenses you have for the Fuji should pretty well make up for the DR advantage the Sony has over the Fuii, but the Sony might still do slightly better in noise and will still have a slight advantage in DoF control.

The most significant difference might be in video., If that's important, choose the Sony.
 
And size and weight? Sony bodies are small, but the lenses still need to cover full frame and are not.
 
a_c_skinner said:
And size and weight? Sony bodies are small, but the lenses still need to cover full frame and are not.
Click to expand...
His Fujifilm lenses are faster. The Sony system he spec'd is only 17g or 27g heavier than his Fuji system. That's only about 2-3% more.
 
Sorry, I was speaking in general about the two systems. Just to go on with that "in general" I doubt anyone who was blinded to the gear could tell much difference between the results of the two, so it comes down to personal preference. In truth with modern gear that is generally the case.
 
I shoot at night and in poor light so I would get the A7. I would also buy the 50MM Macro new for 498.00 vs paying 400.00 for used. Then save my money and get something a little more diverse than a 28 - 70 whose edge to edge sweet spot is probably going to be very near your 50. Just a guess but the sweet spot will be in the 40mm to 60mm range.
 
Last edited:
If you're made of money, stop reading now. Just buy whatever...

It's not 10 years ago. A whole lot of water has flowed under the bridge.

What a buyer needs to carefully analyze now is what shooting they currently do, what they may be likely to do through growth or aspiration, and then look at the systems that best allow you to do that economically. Certain sorts of shooting can be enhanced smaller sensors, and certain sorts of shooting and presenting don't require larger sensors. And smaller sensors are incredibly capable today.

FF sensors have their uses, information about that is widely available. Also, FF is a better path to using legacy lenses if that is desirable (it can be for multiple reasons). They also may be a better path to new lenses---although that is not the case with Fuji.

More than ever, match the tools to the shooting.
 
FingerPainter said:
a_c_skinner said:
And size and weight? Sony bodies are small, but the lenses still need to cover full frame and are not.
Click to expand...
His Fujifilm lenses are faster. The Sony system he spec'd is only 17g or 27g heavier than his Fuji system. That's only about 2-3% more.
Click to expand...
you find this often when looking at SOny FF and Fuji APSC. Fuji has some really cool lenses that are "equivelant" to their ff competitors. This also generally includes price and size.
 
ktmei said:
So there is not much of a price difference between the two cameras and lenses, I know the obvious would be to get the A7 for its full frame capability and shallow DOF that can be achieved. However, what makes Fuji a high end product that it almost costs the same as the A7? Should I just get the A7?
Click to expand...
I've owned both of these cameras, liked them both very much, ultimately chose the Sony A7. However...

The Sony sensor is 135 format and the Fuji is APS-C, which in photographic terms means that they're almost the same size. Their performance is far more similar than not. The "shallow DOF" of the A7 relative to the X-T1 is a pretty trivial difference, not something most of us would base our buying decisions on. It's just one of a long list of difference between the two systems, some of which favor the Sony and some of which favor the Fuji.

Fuji lenses, to me, are highly impressive. From where I sit, they're simply as good as it gets, both optically and in build quality. I can't say the same about Sony. Frankly, the A7 kit lens that I got was donkey.

On the other hand, the A7 is The Bomb when it comes to adapting vintage 35mm film lenses. Also, Voigtlander are starting to bring out some native lenses (with electronic data exchange, but no autofocus) for the Sony platform that should be outstanding, at least for those of us who like to focus manually.

The Fuji has more "retro" or traditional style controls similar to a 35mm film camera, which some people love. I thought I'd love them, but I ended up preferring the Sony. However, the Fuji's firmware and menus are organized more sensibly.

I like the way focus peaking and magnification work on the Sony, and for someone who does mostly manual focusing, that's important. Both cameras have excellent EVFs, though.

Fuji are known for their lovely color rendition. It's subtle, but it really is quite pleasing.
 
madhav56 said:
Two things should help you decide actually. End-usage and operational convenience. Sony will give you the advantage of FF has over APSC as well as 4K Video recording.

Maybe the comparison at DPR may help. XT1 seems to score on Stills while A7 scores in Video :

9db8461c7211442887bfa500306fe89e.jpg

Madhav Bodas
Click to expand...
That chart is pretty useless and the A7 does not shoot 4k video. With only the lenses the OP states, the FF will have no real IQ advantage, or a DOF control advantage. On the other hand the Fuji has full E shutter while the A7 does not. The Fuji also has better C-AF with it's PDAF, and the EVF is better.

Between the two the Sony is probably better for video but neither are a great option in that regard. IMO the Fuji is the better choice for the OP.
 
ktmei said:
Researching into getting a Sony A7 or Fujifilm X-T1.

Here's what I've found:

Sony A7 ~$700-800 used
Sony 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 ~$200 used
Sony 50mm f2.8 Macro ~$400 used

Total - around $1400

Fujifilm X-T1 ~$450-550
Fujifilm 18-55 f2.8-4 ~$400
Fujifilm 23mm f2 or 35mm f2 ~$400

Total - around $1350

So there is not much of a price difference between the two cameras and lenses, I know the obvious would be to get the A7 for its full frame capability and shallow DOF that can be achieved. However, what makes Fuji a high end product that it almost costs the same as the A7? Should I just get the A7?
Click to expand...
I think the the original Sony A7 was Sony's first small mirrorless camera with a full frame sensor and although the A7 is a good camera it does have issues that make it the least desirable camera in the A7 series.

Here are the "cons" about this camera:
  • JPEG quality disappointing compared to peers – crude sharpening, over-aggressive processing and occasional posterization
  • Autofocus can be hesitant, especially in low light; AF improves when assist lamp is turned off
  • Auto ISO tends to keep shutter speed at 1/60 sec, often resulting in blurry photos
  • Limited selection of FE lenses, which are expensive compared to competition
  • Tools for shooting with third party lenses need improvement
  • Longer-than-average startup times
  • Camera 'locks up' while buffer is clearing after continuous shooting
  • Overly sensitive eye sensor (also stays active when screen is tilted)
  • Lacks a built-in flash
  • Limited battery life
  • Exposure compensation and rear scroll wheel too easy to accidentally bumped
  • Menu arrangement poor and navigation a bit clunky (requires a lot of button-pressing)
  • No in-camera Raw conversion
  • No external charger included for rapid charging or keeping a spare battery topped-up
  • Included remote capture software lacks live preview
The A7 is very good at video and does have a full frame sensor but the Fuji X-T1 is simply a better camera, in most ways.

Here is the "cons" list for the X-T1:
  • Rear buttons are small, and almost flush to camera body
  • Four-way controller is rather 'spongey' in feel
  • Awkwardly positioned, locking ISO dial is inconvenient (especially with large lenses)
  • Raw files not recorded when ISO dial set to 'L', 'H1' and 'H2' positions
  • Limited manual control during movie recording
  • Poor image quality in movie mode
  • Need to use third party software (ACR 8.4) to match camera's colour rendition in Raw
  • Matching weatherproof lenses not available at launch (due to appear mid-2014)
As you can see the the negative things, except for video, are minor and have nothing to do with image quality and very little to do with anything that amounts to anything.

What all this means is that if someone needs a full frame camera the A7 would be the only choice, between the two, but if someone didn't absolutely need full frame the Fuji is a much better camera and even the Fuji lenses you have listed are "faster" and incrementally better than the lenses offered with the Sony.

Naturally, the newer models of the original A7 have improved quite a bit and are very good cameras.
 
"The Sony sensor is 135 format and the Fuji is APS-C, which in photographic terms means that they're almost the same size (and the rest of that paragraph...)"

Hooray, thank you, at last someone has rumbled the very modest difference that change of sensor size gives you.
 
a_c_skinner said:
"The Sony sensor is 135 format and the Fuji is APS-C, which in photographic terms means that they're almost the same size (and the rest of that paragraph...)"

Hooray, thank you, at last someone has rumbled the very modest difference that change of sensor size gives you.
Click to expand...
 
ktmei said:
Researching into getting a Sony A7 or Fujifilm X-T1.

Here's what I've found:

Sony A7 ~$700-800 used
Sony 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 ~$200 used
Click to expand...
This lens is garbage. You'll want something better. We could talk about lens choices all day.
ktmei said:
Sony 50mm f2.8 Macro ~$400 used

Total - around $1400

Fujifilm X-T1 ~$450-550
Fujifilm 18-55 f2.8-4 ~$400
Fujifilm 23mm f2 or 35mm f2 ~$400

Total - around $1350

So there is not much of a price difference between the two cameras and lenses, I know the obvious would be to get the A7 for its full frame capability and shallow DOF that can be achieved. However, what makes Fuji a high end product that it almost costs the same as the A7? Should I just get the A7?
Click to expand...
A7 is a much higher performing choice than the XT1 with respect to image quality. It's also a better performer than the XT2, but not by much. However, you would want to use a different lens for that A7 as that 28-70 will drag it way down. I had that lens and it was perhaps the worst kit zoom I've ever touched. So in my estimation, you need better lenses for that A7 than what you've listed.

On the other hand, that Fuji 18-55 is a great lens and several notches above a kit zoom. So is the 23 f/2.

So what you've described here is good for comparison, but if you're going for the A7, get better lenses. If you're going for the Fuji, realize that XT1 isn't recent but would be a good way to get into the system.
 
Terms like "modest" are relative
 
golfhov said:
Terms like "modest" are relative
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your meaning is there. My view is that the M4/3 - APS-C gap is more modest than the APS-C - FF gap.

Kelly
 
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