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GFX 50S, 645z or D850

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edelitio

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Hello everyone, question involves up-ing the camera quality of our setup. Right now we are using a Nikon 7200, nice camera and with good lenses it seems to do ok. We only do studio work for online product photography. No printing, no action shooting, etc..we probably take 200-300 shots a week.

Some of our products are very small or very detailed, or with a lot of variant of color like artwork. We are shooting raw but still the images lack zoom capability and clear detail.

We have read ALOT of reviews, compared the DP review studio comparison etc, and based on our budget the max we can afford would be the Fuji GFX 50S, the Pentax 645z, or if we can ever buy one the "cheaper" Nikon 850. Some of our associates use the Hasselblad setup however its way out of the possibility for our budget.

Would we really benefit from a medium format camera or 46+MP's? would a D810 be more than enough with 36+ MP, or would 50+ be the magic number, we are also considering the dynamic range of a medium format as another component..

Any thoughts on the Fuji GFX50s, the Pentax 645z or the Nikon D850?

Many thanks!!!
 
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edelitio said:
[...]

Some of our products are very small or very detailed, or with a lot of variant of color like artwork. We are shooting raw but still the images lack zoom capability and clear detail.

[...]

we are also considering the dynamic range of a medium format as another component..
Click to expand...
Colour will be limited by the output colour space, sRGB, not the sensor.

Don't know what "zoom capability" means.

"Clear detail" is a matter of a solid camera mount and good lenses. The 7200 will pick up plenty of detail for web use. Or really any other when doing product shots. Maybe you aren't getting enough depth of field? This is solved by stopping down (within limits - diffraction will reduce resolution at some point), stacking, or a tilt-shift lens.

As for dynamic range, product shots are completely controlled - the dynamic range of the scene is what you make it with key and fill.
 
Here is my limited view on this and please anyone and everyone knows more than me on this issue so dig in.

First computer screens are not all equal you have 4K-8K screens now. What looks like fuzz on one is detail on another.

Second, resolution is relevant as much as people say it is not because now-a-days you can Zoom! Try zooming in and looking for details on a 24.5MP image versus a 50.1mp image. I can split hairs on a crop at 50.1 and I see fuzz at 24.5. Sorry, but you explain it otherwise.

Third some more expensive professional cameras have a more sophisticated dynamic range and handle light differently. Not talking D4-D5's but more like Canon EOS EDSR or MF's GFX 50S etc.....what looks like a dark spot on a $1000 camera reveals a pattern and array of detail on a $3000+ camera. Sure in a flat sunlight plugged scene outside a cheap camera looks as good as a Hasselblad maybe, but not everyone is taking pictures of dogs and kids on sunny days, figure e-commerce is a multi billion dollar industry why do a lot of the big pro studios that do that work use Hassbelblads or Phase-Ones not apple phones and point and shoots. There is a reason google has a 1GB art camera and there is a reason it looks better than anything you will ever see.

I am trying to figure this out to. I need exceptional detail to show clients 10,000 miles away the condition of something before they plunk down money for something they can''t see with their own eyes. Thus far a better camera makes a substantial impact as as well the screen they see it on.

Ok, I am sure I offended someone here,

Many thanks anyway,
 
many thanks, will do! What do you think about this issue of image stabilization on the Pentax 645Z reviews are saying with mirrorless such as the GFX you get less slap, as in no slap, no mirror.
 
I mostly use the 645Z for landscape on a tripod, especially with a tilt shift lens. I use live view to focus, so no mirror slap.

I have not noticed issues hand held the few times I have done it. It is nice to use hand held, if you can deal with the weight (I can as I often uses big Canon telephotos on another body).
 
....well well well

what do you plan on doing with the camera? Take pics of what, used or seen by whom

pro commercial, fashion, industrial work? Aerial, science, night skies? Landscape?

home photos of the kids? Snap shots?

What % is serious work and how much amatuer stuff.

Its not the camera It Never is. What are your planned uses...?

Is there a GAS consideration ? If so - spend as much as possible Otherwise, think I’d rather spend money on high quality glass than a camera body that will be shortly obsolete

--
Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms
 
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Hello: many thanks. we would use this for work 100% not kids and sporting games etc. the camera wont go outside, it sits on a very sturdy carbon fiber video tripod in our office. We are an antique art gallery, we are profitable and make 100% of our income from this business, not a side job, or hobby or something, I know some weekend warriors that want Hasselblads for their kids birthday photos, not the situation here. we take images of paintings, prints, and antiques etc.. still subjects, nothing moves in a studio with controlled lighting, 97+ CRI continuous, and send the images to clients. Clients are very particular about detail, repairs, or damage on pieces, they want to zoom in and see brush strokes not blur. Even on very small items they want to see detail and a great deal of it, they usually get between 8-12 images of a piece. We move between a 105mm and a 40 mm Nikon glass now and use the D7200. The camera is good, but it has trouble doing things we would like it to do. ISO 100-200, A9, sometimes we go up to A22-36

We do not hire a photographer as it simply becomes to expensive given the volume of pieces we have and have to edit. We are trying to learn as much as we can do produce the best images possible. We don't print, these would simply be digital files that get sent and seen by clients using iphones-5K monitors etc...

Would be willing to spend the cost of a 645z or used fuji gfx, and some good glass for them, obviously we are a business costs matter, however we are thinking 3-5 years at least and we would be continuing to build an online catalog, probably 40,000-60,000 pictures during that span. it becomes relevant to ensure we are using the best equipment to take the best quality of photos we can. Some folks have suggested the Canon EOS 5DSR at 50MP for a "lower cost". Not sure what your take on this would be, we are open to any options, and some have said the camera wont make a difference better to upgrade glass as you mentioned, what that would be, unsure

Many thanks for any thoughts,

E.
 
There is no real picture, with edges and dimensions.

Just a file.

Press Control Plus and the screen fills up with PART of the picture.

I'll do some thinking.

BAK
 
edelitio said:
Hello: many thanks. we would use this for work 100% not kids and sporting games etc. the camera wont go outside, it sits on a very sturdy carbon fiber video tripod in our office. We are an antique art gallery, we are profitable and make 100% of our income from this business, not a side job, or hobby or something, I know some weekend warriors that want Hasselblads for their kids birthday photos, not the situation here. we take images of paintings, prints, and antiques etc.. still subjects, nothing moves in a studio with controlled lighting, 97+ CRI continuous, and send the images to clients. Clients are very particular about detail, repairs, or damage on pieces, they want to zoom in and see brush strokes not blur. Even on very small items they want to see detail and a great deal of it, they usually get between 8-12 images of a piece. We move between a 105mm and a 40 mm Nikon glass now and use the D7200. The camera is good, but it has trouble doing things we would like it to do. ISO 100-200, A9, sometimes we go up to A22-36

We do not hire a photographer as it simply becomes to expensive given the volume of pieces we have and have to edit. We are trying to learn as much as we can do produce the best images possible. We don't print, these would simply be digital files that get sent and seen by clients using iphones-5K monitors etc...

Would be willing to spend the cost of a 645z or used fuji gfx, and some good glass for them, obviously we are a business costs matter, however we are thinking 3-5 years at least and we would be continuing to build an online catalog, probably 40,000-60,000 pictures during that span. it becomes relevant to ensure we are using the best equipment to take the best quality of photos we can. Some folks have suggested the Canon EOS 5DSR at 50MP for a "lower cost". Not sure what your take on this would be, we are open to any options, and some have said the camera wont make a difference better to upgrade glass as you mentioned, what that would be, unsure

Many thanks for any thoughts,

E.
Click to expand...
Hi,

I did some reproduction work years ago, so I know what you mean and what you need. Here's my take on it:

Any, and I mean any 36mp camera and up will do the job you need it to do. Since you're shooting in a studio, under controlled conditions, the dynamic range plays no role. Dynamic range only plays a role when you have a very high contrast situation and you want to see the details in the deep shadows. You control your shadows in the studios, so you don't have to worry about it.

Therefore, Canon 5DS R, Nikon 850, Fuji GFX or Pentax 645 will do the job more than adequately. It all comes down to cost. Canon/Nikon solution will cost you half as much especially when you factor the cost of the lenses.

The weakest link won't be the camera, it will be you. Doing reproduction work well is a very steep learning curve, so you might be disappointed by the results no matter what camera you get. However, it won't be the camera's fault.

As such, get the camera that feels best, that's easiest to use and that you can afford. Budget a good chunk of money for specialized classes that will teach you how to best use your camera and lighting for the type of work that you do. Whether you realize it or not, you're taking it upon yourself to become a professional photographer, so in that sense, the camera is the least of your worries.

I hope that helps.

Good luck to you.
 
edelitio said:
many thanks, really appreciate your advice!
Click to expand...
Pro photography = $1,000 for the pro’s time + $2,000 for knowing how to do the work. Know-how Lighting, optics, business requirements and understanding your market.

ive made extra income by shooting for a business owner He replicated my work, then paid extra for me to do it right. He decided he needed a pro’s skills to meet his requirements.
 
My son is currently in Germany. He was shooting some objects in Austria and the Czech REpublic over the past few days.

Relative casual, but what he sent me has helped inspire this first thought.

1/ Pay a lot of attention to the viewfinder.

Depending on the object, you may need to place the camera where you can't easily put your eye beside a normal viewfinder.

So a tilty back, or a waist level alternative, or something else might be important.

And tethering to a computer is often a good idea.

2/ The tripod matters.

I have a huge Benbo 2 (not Benro) that lets me angle the center column in many ways. I can put the camera so it points down, or can be just above the surface of a table pointing at the side of an object, a foot away from the table edge.

NOTE: My Canon 80D and my Benbo 2 will do everything you want, except give you all the pixels that may or may not be necessary.

I'm going to think more about the number of pixels.

And the lenses matter, but you already know that.
 
Many thanks...I have included several photos of what we are currently doing and the quality it is producing using a Nikon D7200 with a 40MM and a 105MM lens, these are 100% daylight, we also use continuous lighting CRI 97+ but these examples do not demonstrate that. The main concern being as you get closer to the item either zooming in or cropping, the details become blurry, lines become less clear, etc..





ISO 100, A36, in daylight with some LR editing
ISO 100, A36, in daylight with some LR editing



close up of image, as one begins to zoom in on the image it begins to lack clarity and detail...
close up of image, as one begins to zoom in on the image it begins to lack clarity and detail...



this item is extremely small about the size of a fingernail and has been zoomed in a great deal...using a Nikon D7200 and a 05mm lens, note the loss of detail in the edges, ISO 100, A36..we have also used A9 as well, but do not have an example of that
this item is extremely small about the size of a fingernail and has been zoomed in a great deal...using a Nikon D7200 and a 05mm lens, note the loss of detail in the edges, ISO 100, A36..we have also used A9 as well, but do not have an example of that
 
Shoot RAW

Out of camera images are not sharp. You must sharpen them a bit in post

Have you AF Fine tuned the lens to the camer to ensure MAX sharpness. A macro lens can help overall sharpness too.

For work like this, I'll use Medium Format cameras - well depending on the ROI of doing so. Cost versus income. You'll have to make that judgement.

The 850 will be sharper out of camera as it lacks a layer the sensor.
 
Hi, yea we forgot to mention yes we always shoot raw and post raw processing we add structure and sharpness. I think the shape of this is beginning to align to a 50.1 MP MF...either the GFX or 645z..
 
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