Considering an A7 + FE50f1.8... good for this kind of situation?

I currently use an A6000 with a Sigma 30mm f/2.8. Overall, I'm happy with the results, but I've been considering getting an A7 since they're so cheap lately (sub $1000, which is the ballpark of what I want to spend). Why?

Take for example, this picture I took recently:



I'm somewhat happy with it. It's decently sharp and the A6000 did a nice job considering there wasn't a ton of light at this wedding. However, I'm not happy about the bokeh. There's some amount of separation between subject/background, but not as smooth and blurred as I'd want it to be. Of course, I'm using a 30mm at 2.8, so I can't expect miracles.

I can't shake the feeling that a full frame with the FE50mm f/1.8, would have given me more and smoother (probably also less noisy) bokeh in this shot; due to a combination of the larger sensor and the faster aperture (focal distance being moot as APSC 30 and FF 50 would be roughly equivalent).

Am I wrong in my assumption that I could actually benefit from an A7 + FE50f1.8 combo? I would purchase the FE50 this fall (to also use on the a6000) and the A7 in the spring.

Or you could buy the sigma 18-35 f1.8.... Its big but great lens....

txabi said:

I'm somewhat happy with it. It's decently sharp and the A6000 did a nice job considering there wasn't a ton of light at this wedding. However, I'm not happy about the bokeh. There's some amount of separation between subject/background, but not as smooth and blurred as I'd want it to be. Of course, I'm using a 30mm at 2.8, so I can't expect miracles.

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txabi said:

I can't shake the feeling that a full frame with the FE50mm f/1.8, would have given me more and smoother (probably also less noisy) bokeh in this shot; due to a combination of the larger sensor and the faster aperture (focal distance being moot as APSC 30 and FF 50 would be roughly equivalent).

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of you wanted to duplicate the shot, how does the minimum focus distance for those two lenses compare?

50/1.8 lenses are generally pretty weak wide open.


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dan

It would be massively different. The whole image would be bokeh because with the A7 (i just got rid of mine for an A7ii) and the FE 1.8 you couldn't get it to focus properly. All kidding aside, I went from the A6000 to the A7 and the AF was terrible! Especially when not in super bright light. I recommend a faster lens for your a6000 before an "upgrade" to the A7.

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A7ii + Voigtlander 15mm + Sony FE 50mm + Rokinon 85mm MF + Godox TT685s + Godox XT1s

The FE 50 is a very good lens and pairs well with the A7. Just don't expect lightning fast autofocus and you'll do well.

coase said:

The FE 50 is a very good lens and pairs well with the A7. Just don't expect lightning fast autofocus and you'll do well.

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The AF is actually very quick if you use AF-C.

Some cheaper options :

- Zeiss 24f1.8 : wider, but greatest lens in the APS-C E-Mount line-up IMO : sharp, beautiful colours, 1:4 magnification... You can't go wrong with this lens.

- Sigma 30f1.4 : basically your lens, but much faster and at least as sharp. A bit bigger though. And not so pricy ($400).

- Sony 35f1.8 : Pretty good, has OSS which is great for static subjects, and is quite faster. Would give you good separation.

- Touit 32f1.8 : super sharp, but no OSS. Some people seem to love it to death, so I guess it might be an excellent choice if you like the 30mm field of view and Zeiss colours.

I personally would recommend those options over A7 + FE50f1.8. The A7 is a bit old, has pretty bad on-sensor reflection problems, has "slow" AF compared to that of the A6000, and is bigger than your A6000 with any of the options I've written.

PPierre said:

I personally would recommend those options over A7 + FE50f1.8. The A7 is a bit old, has pretty bad on-sensor reflection problems, has "slow" AF compared to that of the A6000, and is bigger than your A6000 with any of the options I've written.

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Thank you all for your comments so far. So a FF 50mm 1.8 would not give me more bokeh/separation than an APSC 35 1.8 can? I figured the bigger sensor would help with that. I don't do quick photography, so I'm OK with the camera needing to hunt for a second.

coase said:

The FE 50 is a very good lens and pairs well with the A7. Just don't expect lightning fast autofocus and you'll do well.

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I keep having this nagging feeling that I should try the FF route. I've had APSC my whole life, and I know that the FF factor isn't a WOW mega difference, but I also know that for some reason, every time I see an FF shot compared to APSC I can always tell the diference. Always. Smoother gradients, maybe the dynamic range/contrast... I don't know what it is, but I definitely notice it (before knowing that it's actually FF) and that's what's nagging me to try the FF+50mm1.8 route. Otherwise I would've already bought an APSC lens, but I want to figure this out because those $400 for the APSC lens could go towards an A7.

ff would make a difference if you wanted to shoot fast glass wide open, which is what you were indicating with the pic of that menu.

a 50/1.8 would give you similar dof to an f/1.2 lens on aps-c, so yeah, you can't always duplicate the ff "look" with a crop sensor.... the 30/1.4 lens would help.

if you are stopping down much, tho, you'll have to throw money at 36mp or better ff, to really see a p.q. difference... for your scenario of a6000 vs. a7, it's 24mp vs. 24mp, but there is a small d.r. gain with the a7... you might get some of that back with an a6300: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6000,Sony ILCE-6300,Sony ILCE-7

plug an a7r into that chart tho, you'll definitely see a difference, especially when editing with more pixels.

osv said:

ff would make a difference if you wanted to shoot fast glass wide open, which is what you were indicating with the pic of that menu.

a 50/1.8 would give you similar dof to an f/1.2 lens on aps-c, so yeah, you can't always duplicate the ff "look" with a crop sensor.... the 30/1.4 lens would help.

if you are stopping down much, tho, you'll have to throw money at 36mp or better ff, to really see a p.q. difference... for your scenario of a6000 vs. a7, it's 24mp vs. 24mp, but there is a small d.r. gain with the a7... you might get some of that back with an a6300: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6000,Sony ILCE-6300,Sony ILCE-7

plug an a7r into that chart tho, you'll definitely see a difference, especially when editing with more pixels.

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dan

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OK, interesting. I'm fine with 24mp, I don't need more detail necessarily. I do feel that light behaves differently on a FF sensor, and maybe that's what I'm noticing. I'm not looking for a huge jump in IQ, but I'd like to capture that difference that I see between FF and APSC, whatever it may be.

On the economics side, if I simply decided to go longer while fast to ensure a certain amount of bokeh, I could to the 50mm OSS for APSC or the FE50mm, but the latter is a cheap $250 with frequent discounts to $200 while the APSC equivalent remains at $300. Getting the FE could be justified for being cheaper and still leave the FF option open for the future.

I'm not a ton-of-lenses kind of guy. I like my 50mm equivalent and something longer for portraits, no need for more, so what I buy remains in my tool set for a long time. I wish I could rent a FF and use it for an afternoon to see the difference for myself without having to guess, but there's no such option in my city... :/

with the fe50/1.8 on your a6000, you'd be cropping out the worst part of the frame, so there is something to be said for that, plus it would be there for a move to ff later... just don't expect much in the way of p.q. on ff, when it's wide open.

i would ask how the fe50/1.8 af works on an a6000? should be no problem, but maybe someone with experience, perhaps on the sony mirrorless crop forum, will post some feedback.

beyond all that, once you shoot with 36mp or more, you won't want to go back

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dan

Your money would be much better spent on the 30 1.4 if people haven't mentioned it already. You really have to know what you want out of the A7 to warrant buying it IMO; as a general purpose camera or general upgrade I'm personally not convinced. Even the A7II is so so, though used it's a pretty great bargain. Just not worth the move for one lens

sportyaccordy said:

Your money would be much better spent on the 30 1.4 if people haven't mentioned it already.

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My only issue with buying another Sigma is AF capability. Not that my 30mm 2.8 is slow focusing, but if I choose to do lock-on AF, It is severely limited to the 9 phase detect points in the absolute center. That really sucks, and I hadn't read anything about that in any of the - many - reviews I checked before buying.

That's why I'm thinking of going Sony this time, to ensure that the lens will be able to use either the center of wide area phase detect sensors. I won't use that feature all the time, but I don't want to outright lose it like I do with my current Sigma.

I really like the 35/1.8OSS on APS-C, combine OSS and over a stop brighter and you'll have a noticeable jump in usability over the 30/2.8.

Andrew

andrewD2 said:

I really like the 35/1.8OSS on APS-C, combine OSS and over a stop brighter and you'll have a noticeable jump in usability over the 30/2.8.

Andrew

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Right, that's a perfectly smart idea. However, for about or less than half of the 35 OSS, getting the FE50 would give me 1) a new focal length - since I already have 35 on the Sigma - and 2) the option for FF later on.

It is starting to feel like getting more APSC lenses is limiting my options. I'm more inclined towards going to FF next year, even an older body like the A7, that's why I'm considering these options. It would all be so much easier if I could rent a FF+50mm fast lens and try for myself, instead of trying to theoretically figure this out.

MisJay said:

The E50, because it is much sharper, and you need that sharpness on the crop sensor, and it has OSS which you also need on a non-IBIS body.

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I'm starting to consider this. I've been playing all day with my A6000 and a 1976 manual focus Nikkor 50mm f/2 and I'm really enjoying the bokeh results:



I'd expect similar results from the 50mm OSS and it'd be overall way cheaper than getting a FE50+FF body. Plus the OSS might be a bigger deal in the end since the A6000 doesn't have IBIS.

I just need to make peace with shooting from a longer distance. Hmm...

I haven't used it but I heard the 1.4 can use all autofocus points. I'd at least look into it

I find this slightly illogical - you think FE 50/1.8 on full frame will give you a shallower DOF than 30/2.8 on APS-C (true) but you don't consider the 30/1.4 on APS-C which would give quite similar results to 50/1.8 on full frame. Also, by most reports the Sigma 30/1.4 is a better lens than the FE 50/1.8

Actually for this specific picture, the background can definitely be improved with about 30 seconds of post processing in Lightroom. Adjustment brush on the areas you want to soften/blur more, and negative clarity. You can try -50 and -100 and see how it looks etc. Cheaper than buying a new lens!

txabi said:

However, I'm not happy about the bokeh. There's some amount of separation between subject/background, but not as smooth and blurred as I'd want it to be. Of course, I'm using a 30mm at 2.8, so I can't expect miracles.

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In general, very few wide-angle lenses give very smooth bokeh (and I know 30mm isn't wide for APS-C, but it probably follows a similar design).

The FE 50mm f/1.8 is an excellent lens, and works quite well on the A7 (and on an A6000 for that matter). It will give more, bigger, bokeh. The bokeh are also better (smoother), but there is a touch of the "onion skin" patterning commonly seen with aspheric lens elements.

THE lens for smooth bokeh is the Sony 100mm STF... but it's 100mm, T/4.5, and costs about $1500. Then again, it AFs nicely and, thanks to an apodizing element, produces literally the best bokeh of any lens ever made.

So, here's my suggestion. If you need autofocus, get the FE 50mm f/1.8 -- it's hard to argue with the price/performance. Otherwise, consider getting a manual lens that has really good bokeh rendering. A good old example would be the M42 SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4, commonly available via eBay for around $50 (plus $10 for an M42 adapter). Make sure you get one that isn't yellowed or bleach it with UV light. BTW, on your A6000, if you spend $150 on a focal reducer, it will become a 36mm f/1.0 with very nice bokeh. Alternatively, for a new lens with great bokeh, get one of the Samyang 85mm f/1.4 -- it's a bit long compared to what you're used to, but bokeh are very smooth for a new $250 lens.